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Old Dec 12, 2012, 07:16 PM   #76
dukebound85
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Originally Posted by onigami View Post
It's not whether I want them off. Because the issue is you want/need them on. Again, why are you so desperate for a fix?
That is irrelevant. If there is no need for them to be off, then there is no need to have this rule. Not sure why you are arguing this point.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 07:16 PM   #77
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Phones are a nuisance, a tablet is not.

Kudos to her.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 07:16 PM   #78
Chip NoVaMac
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Originally Posted by ckeck View Post
What does this have to do with anything? The fact that I can't even put my iPad in airplane mode and continue reading one of my ebooks while everyone around me with a paper book can continue about their business is flat out ridiculous.

I'm not desperate for an internet connection but why the hell should I have to lose 20-30 minutes of GOOD reading time because of stupid rules that don't solve for anything? So wasteful.
I am with you here... I am all for limiting use of headphones during takeoff and landings under the premise of "safety" - but limiting use of an iPad for reading or silent gaming, and use of Nook type readers is a bit much...
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 07:18 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by aa909 View Post
Finally, if these devices were in any way a serious concern in terms of their impact on flight computers, they would force you lock them away in your luggage and NEVER take them out during flight. I mean how could they take the risk of a plane crash if some dummy kept his cell phone, iPad and computer on during the entire flight.
Bingo.

All I want to do is read my newspaper and magazines---all of which are on my iPad---regardless of whether we're at 10,000+ feet or rolling along the tarmac.

Ah, to have the West Wing episode on my laptop so I could watch Toby chew out an FA, defending the use of his cheapo Radio Shack flip phone after the cabin door closed.....
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 07:18 PM   #80
OtherJesus
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I see our Government Democrats at hard at work on the most pressing issues. Thank you!
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 07:18 PM   #81
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The U.S. is broke, can't do a budget and only a few days left before Congress says bye for Xmas.

Glad we have our legislative priorities in place before then!
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 07:23 PM   #82
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opps... someones in trouble *looks at headline*

Just to set the record straight, is this saying trying to overturn the fact you can't use electronics during take-off/landings? or "in-flight" ??

Because i see people all the time using laptops on planes when we travel..

It's only during take-off and landings we can't use them.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 07:24 PM   #83
room237
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Someone told me the real reason that they prohibit use of electronic devices during takeoff and landing is so they have everyone's attention in case of an emergency. Not sure about the validity of that, but it sounds like a good enough reason for me.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 07:26 PM   #84
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Same arguments at FFA (like here)
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 07:26 PM   #85
room237
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Originally Posted by OtherJesus View Post
I see our Government Democrats at hard at work on the most pressing issues. Thank you!
Oh please. I'm so tired of that argument. There are always multiple issues, big and small, on a local scale, national scale, international, etc. affecting millions of different people Have you ever heard of multitasking?
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 07:28 PM   #86
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gets me by

Quote:
Originally Posted by onigami View Post
And I hope it doesn't pass committee.

Seriously, I don't get why we have to have our laptops/tablets/etc. on at all times. Are we that desperate for a fix?
It stops me from focusing on my irrational fear of flying/falling/crashing
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 07:31 PM   #87
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As a frequent flyer I see no problem having my devices on airplane mode. Besides its just until your above 10K feet for most devices. That's not very long. You're stuck in a flying tube for the duration of the flight anyway. What's waiting a few minutes going to hurt?

And as far as cell phones being used while in flight.. That would be awful. And people complain about kids crying. Just think about all the noise...
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 07:31 PM   #88
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Reality check

The reality is if these devices were a danger to the operation of an aircraft they wouldn't be allowed in the cabin. It's just a stupid rule like the kind your elementary teacher imposed in the 3rd grade.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 07:39 PM   #89
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Actually it's not the use of one or two devices that could cause problem, but the use of 180+ devices in the mean time in a metal cage confined area (mainly if they do have Wifi, Bluetooth and GPS, just like most of the recent devices).

That's why before to claim it is not dangerous (or it is dangerous, it goes both way), I'd like to see the report of studies they base their opinions (from both side). I'd like to see real tests that can guarantee there's no danger and then it will prove to FAA and Airlines that indeed we can finally all use our electronic devices (no more endless discussions, because without studies, anyone can claim anything but nobody can prove it wrong).
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 07:39 PM   #90
Chip NoVaMac
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Originally Posted by mrsir2009 View Post
It's only during the take off & landing though, isn't it? You're free to use them once you reach cruising altitude, where you'll stay for however many boring hours the flight takes - But why do you need to use them for the short time the plane is taking off? Just look at the window and watch the cool view of the world disappearing below you
The rule as I understand it is that devices have to remain off till the flight reaches 10,000ft - normally about 15 to 20 minutes after takeoff. Though I have been on flights that it has been as long 30+ minutes on accesent to be able to turn on my iPad or Nook for reading....

Back in the day that a bit more knee room was left so a window seat was not a pain to other passengers this was a cool way to pass the time. Add short connection times and every man for themselves in disembarking the airplane,windows seats have lost their appeal....
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 07:40 PM   #91
Geminist
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Originally Posted by MozMan68 View Post
I must have been dreaming then when I did it myself...or when there was a thread on this very site about it when FaceTime was first introduced.

Believe me...it's the next thing that stupid people will fight over.

"I'm a blah blah blah important attorney and have to work on the plane."

I personally don't see an issue with not using my device or have headphones on during the safety instructions (that I have heard 1,000+ times), but letting people start to talk on their phones or FaceTime over the wifi system will cause an uproar....and I travel for business all the time.

Plane time is sleepy time for me...
Same here. As long as people don't start making calls, chain texting with multiple beeps on their phone etc.

Amazing how daft some passengers can be, playing angry birds with sounds from the speakers.

Flying time = sleeping time !
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 07:41 PM   #92
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I suspect that those who think this is a non-issue don't fly very often. The reality is that for frequent flyers, this is a big nuisance. I may be on 3 flights in a given day of flying. At a minimum that's 20 minutes on each end of the flight, or 2 hours that day. If there are delays and you are stuck on the Tarmac or circling to land, that can easily stretch to 40 minutes to an hour or more. If I could just stick in my headphones when I sit down and keep them on until the plane lands, it'd be a much more comfortable experience. The whole schtick is woefully out of date.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 07:41 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Geminist View Post
Same here. As long as people don't start making calls, chain texting with multiple beeps on their phone etc.

Amazing how daft some passengers can be, playing angry birds with sounds from the speakers.

Flying time = sleeping time !
I'll remind you of that the next time you catch a flight on Hooters Air.

And yes, the airline does/did exist.

BL.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 07:42 PM   #94
cgc
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Originally Posted by onigami View Post
And I hope it doesn't pass committee.

Seriously, I don't get why we have to have our laptops/tablets/etc. on at all times. Are we that desperate for a fix?
...and why would a fricking politician think they should circumvent FAA and FCC safety review? I would love to see more people turning off electronics a little more often...
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 07:42 PM   #95
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A few years ago, a group of engineers from the IEEE flew a portable spectrum analyzer that monitored RF emissions on 37 commercial flights (with FAA permission and the assistance of 3 airlines). They found that between one and four mobile phone call were made per flight and that at least one passenger forget to turn of his or her mobile per flight. Furthermore, they found emissions in the GPS frequencies from PEDs onboard. Their conclusion was that in normal use cases, PEDs will not interfere with aircraft hardware but under worst case situations, a PED can interfere with a aircraft instrumentation. One of the issues pointed is that the FAA and FCC do not co-ordinate their rules. Phones that operate according to FCC limits can produce spurious transmissions in frequencies that encroach on the safety margins of flight equipment. If the US government really wants to allow expanded PED usage, the FCC should introduce into its rules limits for PEDs in aviation equipment frequencies.

Read the article for yourself: "Unsafe at any airspeed?" — IEEE Spectrum, March 2006

There are few updated articles:
"Electronic Devices, Airplanes and Interference: Significant Danger or Not?", IEEE Blog post, 18 Jan 2011
"Do Mobile Electronics Really Interfere With Flight? They Could" — IEEE Blog post, 3 Feb 2011

We know that PEDs can interfere with aircraft electronics. NASA maintains a database of voluntarily submitted incidents that did not result in a crash. There is a report (ACN 475267) of a Toshiba laptop being used by a person sitting in a certain row (the online report censors the row number) produced RF emissions that caused the VOR needle to spin. The flight attendant had the passenger shut the computer down and the VOR began to operate correctly. The pilot asked the passenger to power it back on and this time the VOR needle indicated a 40Ί deviation from correct heading. When the passenger shut it back down, the VOR indicated the correct heading and they continued the flight without the computer turned on.

I am not aware of any accidents being caused by a PED so far (but that doesn't mean one hasn't happened).

One thing I haven't seen in this discussion so far (although the discussion is about PEDs in general) is the effects on the cellular system of mobile phone use in air — it is my understanding that a large number of people using mobiles while in flight will wreck havoc on the cellular system. The current system is designed for people using phones in cars with highway speeds. An airplane travels much faster and the call will transfer from tower to tower rapidly and a large volume of these rapid transfers could take down the cellular system. This is why picocells are needed to use mobiles on commercial aircraft (but I don't have a cite for this).
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 07:43 PM   #96
cgc
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Originally Posted by zhenya View Post
I suspect that those who think this is a non-issue don't fly very often. The reality is that for frequent flyers, this is a big nuisance. I may be on 3 flights in a given day of flying. At a minimum that's 20 minutes on each end of the flight, or 2 hours that day. If there are delays and you are stuck on the Tarmac or circling to land, that can easily stretch to 40 minutes to an hour or more. If I could just stick in my headphones when I sit down and keep them on until the plane lands, it'd be a much more comfortable experience. The whole schtick is woefully out of date.
I fly a LOT and books come in handy...as does sleeping, talking, sitting quietly, etc.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 07:46 PM   #97
IJ Reilly
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Originally Posted by MultiMediaWill View Post
As a private pilot myself, I encourage the use of electronic devices because according the the FAR (91.21) the pilot in command is allowed to veto any restrictions on electronic devices if I determine it is not a hazard (which it is not).
Well the big problem here is that air transport operates under Part 135.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 07:47 PM   #98
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Agree completely. We are all turning into electronics zombies. Our youth is losing the ability to effectively communicate in person because the only way they know how is from behind a screen. OMG can't use my iPad during takeoff!!!$#$# Guy next to me is reading a book no fair@#@$#$#$!!!@ Get over it people.
That book is probably heavier than an iPad, but that's besides the point. Which would you rather have me do during takeoff and landing - talk, maybe loudly since the engines and wing flaps are making a lot of noise at those times, or listen to music on my phone with my headphones on? I'd rather be listening to music, because it helps to settle my nerves more, but if you would rather have me talk, maybe to you, I'm all for it.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 07:50 PM   #99
zhenya
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I fly a LOT and books come in handy...as does sleeping, talking, sitting quietly, etc.
That's great. I sometimes do those things as well, but I'd like to have the choice.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 07:52 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by MacRumors View Post

The senator notes the "absurdity of the current situation" since the FAA has recently approved the use of iPads to replace paper flight manuals. She promises that she is "prepared to pursue legislative solutions" if the FAA is too slow to act.

AWESOME!

It's about time something was done about this I'd say!
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