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Old Dec 13, 2012, 12:23 PM   #51
HenryDJP
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Originally Posted by Steviejobz View Post
It most certainly is a tax, not in the literal sense but a mandatory premium you pay now that you are in the ecosystem because it is very tough to leave. And it is due to Apple not making it super easy for its products to work with others. Like why cant I delete Apple's Map app? This smells like MSFT / IE back in the day and it will all come to roost soon. We are starting to see signs of it.
Deleting Apple's map app should be the least of your concerns. Just hide it in a folder amongst some of your apps that are used less. It's not like it's taking up any real space on your storage. Microsoft still has people held captive by ball and chain. Honestly I don't appreciate how MS puts a stong-hold on customers, for example as you mentioned, Internet Explorer. Sadly it's still happening. There are some websites that won't work well unless you're using Internet Explorer. It has nothing to do with Windows, it's just that these websites were/are coded with I.E. 6 using Active X and it screws others that don't/can't use Internet Explorer.

Same crap they do holding people captive with Windows and while I'm certainly not condoning it, this is what is some companies will do to reel people into their "ecosystem" At least with Apple it's always been a choice as far as getting into the ecosystem. They make great products and customers decide if they want to enter the Apple environment. With Microsoft, people are forced for the most part due to having to use it at work, any business related stuff (especially on the internet) leans more towards the use of Microsoft's system which presents a monopoly and that's not fair to the consumer and takes away choice.
Hopefully Windows 8 fails, Microsoft has had it's time. Other companies they've stomped over the last 20 years deserve to make their presence.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 12:27 PM   #52
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It's a shame Apple are going about systematically destroying that reputation with the likes of Maps, Podcasts and iTunes 11.

Last edited by jowie; Dec 13, 2012 at 12:34 PM.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 12:29 PM   #53
prowlmedia
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It's a shame Apple are going about systematically destroying that reputation with the likes of Maps and iTunes 11.
Why iTunes 11? Nothing but good things as far as I have heard?

The only issue was the sidebar is hidden at the start.

Every company has a few misses. Google maps was awful for a few years. Android - useless until a year ago - now a very good OS if still a bit messy. And Chromebooks... worse than useless. Sony S and P tablets... rubbish. Apple Cube. the list goes on.... The problem is that Apple gets a lot more attention.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 12:31 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by prowlmedia View Post
A whole 70 interviews around the world!!! Blimey Reuters. Anyone would think you were an international media agency.

In other News, Bear poops in woods.

Sarcasm aside. Windows error messages alone were enough to confuse my parents... years of support helpdesk to them on windows... bought them a Mac.... bearly any problems now... most related to their Hotmail account... now finally working after years as MS support imap now!

Seventy may actually be an ample sample size. The problem is that there wasn't enough randomness. Meh... it's Reuters, a news agency. I doubt they had a statistician help them.

Bear poops in woods LOL!
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 12:31 PM   #55
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70 shoppers?
Reuters =/= research firm


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Originally Posted by litmag01 View Post
Seventy may actually be an ample sample size. The problem is that there wasn't enough randomness. ...
and it probably depends their questions and how their conducted the interviews..
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 12:33 PM   #56
jowie
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Originally Posted by prowlmedia View Post
Why iTunes 11? Nothing but good things as far as I have heard?

The only issue was the sidebar is hidden at the start.
Maybe it's just me, or the fact that I also have iTunes Match, but it constantly cocked things up (playlists not showing all items, importing tracks that just wouldn't show up, search not showing items that are blatantly there).

Anyway, I downgraded and everything is just great again. It looks nice, but it's really really flaky under the hood.

Point is, Apple should never release software in this state. It's a recurring theme.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 12:34 PM   #57
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For all your posturing, I bet that you use Google play and every other google service. All this talk of "choice" is marketing bullcrap anyway.
Amen. Most successful corporate propaganda coup ever.

Fandroids brag about "choice." Then they all buy Samsung phones. They use Google Maps. They use Google Search. They use Google Mail. They use Google Calendar and Google Voice and Google Play. The best apps on the Android platform are all from Google, and all Android fans use them. "Choice." Uh huh.

Google has them convinced that they're "free" while being fully locked into Google's system. It's the "my dictator is more benevolent than your dictator" argument and they don't even realize it.

Hilarious.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 12:35 PM   #58
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so you ask people at apple stores what brand they're most excited about?!

seriously? lol

Guess what product most people are excited about at a donut shop? Yes a donus!
Wrong. A donut and coffee.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 12:40 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by LagunaSol View Post
Amen. Most successful corporate propaganda coup ever.

Fandroids brag about "choice." Then they all buy Samsung phones. They use Google Maps. They use Google Search. They use Google Mail. They use Google Calendar and Google Voice and Google Play. The best apps on the Android platform are all from Google, and all Android fans use them. "Choice." Uh huh.

Google has them convinced that they're "free" while being fully locked into Google's system. It's the "my dictator is more benevolent than your dictator" argument and they don't even realize it.

Hilarious.
Honestly I never got this whole locked in argument. No one is forced at gun point to buy anything. If you like Apple or Google's ecosystem then you probably don't feel locked in to anything.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 12:44 PM   #60
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Closed ... as opposed to what?

How is the Apple ecosystem any more closed than any other (from a consumer point of view)?

If I invest in apps and movies for my Android device, doesn't that lock me into Android? Same with Windows Phone?

The only area I can think of where there is an open ecosystem is in music, where you can basically buy from any vendor and transfer it to any other. And guess who bullied the music industry into letting that happen?
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 12:50 PM   #61
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this is pretty much why I don't switch to Android, even though I think it has surpassed iOS (starting with version 6).

I have an ipad, imac and iphone and have invested too much in apps to switch to another platform.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 12:51 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by lowbatteries View Post
How is the Apple ecosystem any more closed than any other (from a consumer point of view)?
It's not. But Google has managed to convince everyone it is.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 12:53 PM   #63
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In the end, it works out OK. The higher premium (not tax) pays for better quality and less hiccups from daily operation, plus longer years of usage that defers purchasing new replacement. If and when one decides to sell off instead of donating, the $ recuperated from the sale definitely offsets the initial outlay. Additional, I find in some instances of notebook, it is actually cheaper to buy Apple than a comparable brand names such as Sony or Lenovo.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 12:55 PM   #64
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"Apple's compelling orchard of products"

Cute, I'll have to remember that.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 12:56 PM   #65
Infinitewisdom
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Originally Posted by World Citizen View Post
For me its just the fact I do more work.

I keep finding my self sitting behind my Mac thinking... whats next.
Same goes for my phone and the rest...

With windows I had a lot more options/possibilities... but the downside is you need to configure them all, and keep them up to date.
In the past I lost a minimum of 1 hour a day with configuring or updating or testing... With my Mac I boot it, and go to work.

There is just nothing else to do with you Mac besides working and making use of it. No more tweaking, tooling, updating, testing, searching...

So in my personal case it saves me 1 hour a day...
Yup. I've had Android devices before. Fun to play around with and so much to customize. But, most of the time I just want my devices to work and work predictably. Android just felt like too much of a mess after a little while.

That and iOS versions of many apps are so much better designed than their Android counterparts.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 12:59 PM   #66
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The tax and "locked in" argument makes no more sense now than at any time in the past. In the 80's, if you bought a Mac, and had software that ran on it, you couldn't use the same software under DOS...and you were thereby "locked in" to that ecosystem as well. If you switched to a DOS machine, you would have had to buy all new software. This is no different than seitching from iOS to Android and having to purchase new software all over again.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 01:05 PM   #67
Doc750
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Lol I love the argument ... So easy my grand mother can use it. Apple is no longer cutting edge tech, it should be sitting on the shelf right next to jitterbug.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 01:15 PM   #68
thebignewt
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I have an iMac, an iPad, and an iPod. And a Samsung android phone. I use a Windows PC at work. Android and Apple's OS aren't all that different. It's like Googlemaps and Applemaps aren't that different. But they are way superior to Windows IMO. My friend just got a Windows 8 machine and he already hates it. He got it because of the price. You get what you pay for. He can't even get his Cox email to work on it if he doesn't pay Cox $100! BTW the new iTunes 11 rocks.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 01:16 PM   #69
twigman08
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Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
Of course if these 70 people said they hated Apple's products and planned to jump ship no one would give a hoot about the sample size and would proclaim The end of Apple.

The thing is, that is more than likely true...
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 01:22 PM   #70
EmpireITtech
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Originally Posted by HenryDJP View Post
Deleting Apple's map app should be the least of your concerns. Just hide it in a folder amongst some of your apps that are used less. It's not like it's taking up any real space on your storage. Microsoft still has people held captive by ball and chain. Honestly I don't appreciate how MS puts a stong-hold on customers, for example as you mentioned, Internet Explorer. Sadly it's still happening. There are some websites that won't work well unless you're using Internet Explorer. It has nothing to do with Windows, it's just that these websites were/are coded with I.E. 6 using Active X and it screws others that don't/can't use Internet Explorer.

Same crap they do holding people captive with Windows and while I'm certainly not condoning it, this is what is some companies will do to reel people into their "ecosystem" At least with Apple it's always been a choice as far as getting into the ecosystem. They make great products and customers decide if they want to enter the Apple environment. With Microsoft, people are forced for the most part due to having to use it at work, any business related stuff (especially on the internet) leans more towards the use of Microsoft's system which presents a monopoly and that's not fair to the consumer and takes away choice.
Hopefully Windows 8 fails, Microsoft has had it's time. Other companies they've stomped over the last 20 years deserve to make their presence.
Hoping Microsoft fails is a little naive, for all that they do wrong, they're still the most used OS out there by far. I used to be a huge Apple/Mac fanboy, but then I got a "real" job doing IT work for many large companies, they ALL (except for the print shops or graphics arts dept) use WinXP or Win7.
I think Win7 is a really really solid OS. Is it as flawless as OSX, no, but it's mainstream and widely accessable (IE you don;t have to own Mac hardware to use it).
Btw, I've built 2 Hackintosh's and got the best of both worlds =]

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LagunaSol View Post
It's not. But Google has managed to convince everyone it is.
I somewhat agree with you, but on things like movies and music is where I think people refer to Apple as "locked in".
I use a SIII now (my iPhone4 cracked and iPhone5 wasn't out yet) and I can buy or get music or movies from anyway, and I mostly still use iTunes lol, and put them on my phone.

Don't get me wrong, I love iPhones but I also love the Galaxy S3 *gasp i know*
I always tell people: If you want something that just works, get an iPhone. If you like customizing or a bigger screen, get an Android.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 01:30 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowbatteries View Post
How is the Apple ecosystem any more closed than any other (from a consumer point of view)?

If I invest in apps and movies for my Android device, doesn't that lock me into Android? Same with Windows Phone?

The only area I can think of where there is an open ecosystem is in music, where you can basically buy from any vendor and transfer it to any other. And guess who bullied the music industry into letting that happen?
How many Google Apps work on non Android devices?
How many Apple Apps work on non Apple devices?

I can use google services but not be locked into android, I cant use Apple services without being locked into Apple hardware

Not saying either is better than the other, but Apple is more locked up than others
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 01:36 PM   #72
RiverCitySlim
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Originally Posted by aristotle View Post
*WHOOOSH*

Did you hear that sound? I think the person you were replying to was that Android lacks an easy way for average people to manage their devices and the apps stored on them. They are asking for an easier experience for "them".

For all your posturing, I bet that you use Google play and every other google service. All this talk of "choice" is marketing bullcrap anyway. You "can" use alternatives but you can also shove toothpicks under your fingernails too.

If I was an Android user, I would probably use the easiest and most comprehensive options available.

The real "choice" you have is the platform you choose. Everything else is an illusion.

Realistically, on iOS, you have a lot of choice for book stores and I would gain nothing but headaches from security risks, scams and incompatibility with multiple stores for apps.
Wait, it is only an illusion that I choose Winamp to sync my music to my phone? How in the hell is the music actually getting on my phone then?

I have no issue with people wanting an easier experience for "them" and wanting an iTunes like solution. Hell, if it is done well and I like it I might even use it. I just don't want to have a this way or no way solution and I would likely move on from Android if they went down that road and another platform was able to better suit my use case.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 01:40 PM   #73
Carouser
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Originally Posted by Doc750 View Post
Lol I love the argument ... So easy my grand mother can use it. Apple is no longer cutting edge tech, it should be sitting on the shelf right next to jitterbug.
What is wrong with a product which is easy to use? If people think "cutting edge" and "a total pain to use" are the same thing, well, that explains why people describe Android as cutting edge. What kind of nitwit says "wow this phone would be hard for my grandmother to use, finally some innovation!'?
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 01:40 PM   #74
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The article does say they went to MS stores too.
And as ist also says that there were way more customers in the apple store - the outcome is still not representative. Most windows people don't buy their stuff in MS stores (just because you can get Windows/MS stuff everywhere), whereas Applestores have it all in one place and the variety of the products is limited (which for me is a good thing, especially when it comes to software-hardware coordination).
Conclusion: the article doesn't say anything.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 01:45 PM   #75
Carouser
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And as ist also says that there were way more customers in the apple store - the outcome is still not representative. Most windows people don't buy their stuff in MS stores (just because you can get Windows/MS stuff everywhere), whereas Applestores have it all in one place and the variety of the products is limited (which for me is a good thing, especially when it comes to software-hardware coordination).
Conclusion: the article doesn't say anything.
You can get Apple stuff everywhere too. It's like the 'closed ecosystem' fallacy all over again, bravo.
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