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Old Dec 15, 2012, 12:07 AM   #276
mabhatter
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Originally Posted by iLLUMI View Post
Exactly! I agree totally! What would be the point of releasing another iPad mini, 6 to 9 months down the track, if it doesnt have any new features.
A lot of people want Retina. Retina should simply be the standard across all devices. If there is a higher standard out there then people are going to want that standard. Why should they/we settle from sub standard!

So if/when Apple release the first Apple TV is it going to be a CRT screen?? LOL
Or CFL back lit LCD?? lol
Or even worse, will it be black and white TV with a colour version planned for the third gen?? Heheheh.

I'm happy to part with my money to buy an iPad Mini, even though I don't really need one. But I wont buy one when I know Apple can give it better specks.
I'd agree with that last line. Given what apple did to iPad 1 owners I'm not too keen to jump just yet. I have iPad 2 so mini is just smaller and iPad "4" isn't going away. Of course iPad 1 IS really underpowered like an iPhone 4 with bigger screen and apps that want twice the processing. Given that idiots complain when iPad 2 photo apps don't TAKE iPhone 5 quality pics in just about every photo taking app for iPad 2, I can see why Apple dropped iPad 1 just to stop whining.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 03:53 AM   #277
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The time when Retina is added to the iPad Mini is the time I will purchase one. Hopefully it's on a short cycle like its brother iPad, with 6-7 month cycle. I can't wait.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 04:21 AM   #278
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Originally Posted by Ubele View Post

/snip

I'm also equally amused and irritated by the debate over whether Apple could have released a Retina iPad Mini this year. Having been trained as an engineer, I trust Anandtech's reasoned explanation of why a Retina iPad Mini with the current size, weight, and battery life isn't technologically possible now, and probably won't be for a couple more years, more than I trust the emotionally based "Apple is a greedy corporattion that could have released a Retina Mini but just wanted to milk all the money it could from Apple fanboys!" crowd.

Okay, end of rant. I feel better now. Back to work...
If we aren't having down vote buttons, maybe a 10x up vote button for posts like this.

Thank you for some sense!!

Last edited by cg399; Dec 15, 2012 at 04:21 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 04:26 AM   #279
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Originally Posted by Jimrod View Post
The Kindle Fire HD I just bought my mother for Christmas beats that, is widely regarded to be a better screen - in reality, it looks a little **** next to my girlfriend's new iPad Mini or my old iPad 2. It's higher definition yes, but there's something not as good, you can see lines between the pixels and the tint is nearly as bad as my iPhone 5. It's not all about resolution.
So because the Kindle Fire HD is a turd, Apple shouldn't go Retina on the Mini.

Where is the correlation?
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 04:54 AM   #280
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So because the Kindle Fire HD is a turd, Apple shouldn't go Retina on the Mini.

Where is the correlation?
My point, as was pretty easy to follow, is that people keep banging on about not getting an iPad mini until it's got retina, that it looks awful, the reviews all keep going on about the low res screen and saying that the competition are all better in this regard etc etc. The iPad mini has a very good screen, resolution is one part of the package but not the whole story. The other devices I've seen with allegedly better screens actually look worse and I calibrate screens as part of my job so I am picky about these things. My iPhone 5 is retina but I think the screen is a bit crap because it's green tinted, therefore its screen is worse than the mini for me.

The "standard" iPad mini screen has a thoroughly decent resolution and text is easy to read on it, it's not retina but people seem to only look at on-paper specs when judging things nowadays - exactly as with the iPhone 5 vs Samsung "Full HD" phones - you can't see the pixels so it doesn't matter, resolution is purely relative to viewing distance. Yes a retina display will be an improvement but it's not a game changer - the change to retina on the iPad was nowhere near as substantial as it was on the iPhone.

It seems to me many people only care about specs and in that case they'll never be satisfied - "I'm holding off until it's got 128gig storage", then when that comes they'll want 256gig, then they'll want 1080p even though they won't see the differerence, then it'll have to be quad core even though it runs all things you need on it instantly with dual core etc etc. These people never buy anything, they just complain about what it doesn't have and they'll always be waiting...

Last edited by Jimrod; Dec 15, 2012 at 05:04 AM.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 12:02 PM   #281
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The question everyone should be asking is if the iPad Mini with Retina Display will launch in March, June, or October?
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 12:05 PM   #282
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Originally Posted by irDigital0l View Post
The question everyone should be asking is if the iPad Mini with Retina Display will launch in March, June, or October?
Hopefully in March
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 12:14 PM   #283
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Hopefully in March
Same, want to replace my iPad 1 with something a better.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 01:44 PM   #284
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Get over it, people, as CG399 and Ubele said, it's not possible to make an iPad Mini with a Retina display without essentially doubling its weight and thickness, which would more or less defeat the purpose of the Mini. It will come, but in 2014 at the earliest.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 01:51 PM   #285
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Get over it, people, as CG399 and Ubele said, it's not possible to make an iPad Mini with a Retina display without essentially doubling its weight and thickness, which would more or less defeat the purpose of the Mini. It will come, but in 2014 at the earliest.
People said similar things about the regular iPad. And anyway, Apple has ways of making magic happen. They've done it in the past, so it would not surprise me at all if a retina display iPad mini showed up in 2013, with some new technological process in place to make it work.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimrod View Post
My point, as was pretty easy to follow, is that people keep banging on about not getting an iPad mini until it's got retina, that it looks awful, the reviews all keep going on about the low res screen and saying that the competition are all better in this regard etc etc. The iPad mini has a very good screen, resolution is one part of the package but not the whole story. The other devices I've seen with allegedly better screens actually look worse and I calibrate screens as part of my job so I am picky about these things. My iPhone 5 is retina but I think the screen is a bit crap because it's green tinted, therefore its screen is worse than the mini for me.

The "standard" iPad mini screen has a thoroughly decent resolution and text is easy to read on it, it's not retina but people seem to only look at on-paper specs when judging things nowadays - exactly as with the iPhone 5 vs Samsung "Full HD" phones - you can't see the pixels so it doesn't matter, resolution is purely relative to viewing distance. Yes a retina display will be an improvement but it's not a game changer - the change to retina on the iPad was nowhere near as substantial as it was on the iPhone.

It seems to me many people only care about specs and in that case they'll never be satisfied - "I'm holding off until it's got 128gig storage", then when that comes they'll want 256gig, then they'll want 1080p even though they won't see the differerence, then it'll have to be quad core even though it runs all things you need on it instantly with dual core etc etc. These people never buy anything, they just complain about what it doesn't have and they'll always be waiting...
For some people, what you say is true. For me, and others, the iPad mini resolution is eye-searingly awful. In my review of the original iPad I complained about how low-res it was. Getting a retina display in the iPad (and iPhone) was just one of the greatest things in screen tech for me. I expect the same from the mini, and then I will buy one. It's that simple.

My original iPad review:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=888925
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 02:42 PM   #286
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It would take a more advanced operating system....

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacinDoc View Post
Get over it, people, as CG399 and Ubele said, it's not possible to make an iPad Mini with a Retina display without essentially doubling its weight and thickness, which would more or less defeat the purpose of the Mini. It will come, but in 2014 at the earliest.
Much of the problem is that Apple IOS is brain-dead when it comes to handling screen dimensions. Only 2X is supported.

That means overkill - since the only possibility is 2048x1536 due to the primitive graphics system.

The definition of "retina" could be met by a display with fewer pixels - say 1536x1152 - which would be cheaper and less demanding on the hardware.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 06:40 PM   #287
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Retina for iPad mini

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdv View Post
While it's obvious that everybody wants this to happen, and I'm sure it will happen eventually, I tend to agree with Anandtech. I think if it were feesable to add a retina display within the next year, Apple would have just done it with the original iPad Mini. I expect it will take a couple of years to develop a high res display for the Mini without compromising on its excellent weight and thickness.

Maybe I'm being naive, and it's possible to make one now, and Apple just released a low-res version first so people would shell out more money on the next one, but part of me still likes to think that Apple like making good products, and they would have done it already if it was possible.
One of the more intelligent comments so far, thanks!

And to those who state that the mini is borrowed from old technology, lessseee......, faster wireless and more bandwidths, therefore faster uploads and downloads, frankly to my ears, better sound from the stereo speakers at low volumes (I am a B and W enthusiast), great battery life, and last but not least the smaller and thinner form factor.

Now if Apple would break out the smart covers for the mini in leather, that would be sweeeet!
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Last edited by Dgail; Dec 15, 2012 at 06:45 PM. Reason: additions
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 03:34 AM   #288
MacinDoc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AidenShaw View Post
Much of the problem is that Apple IOS is brain-dead when it comes to handling screen dimensions. Only 2X is supported.

That means overkill - since the only possibility is 2048x1536 due to the primitive graphics system.

The definition of "retina" could be met by a display with fewer pixels - say 1536x1152 - which would be cheaper and less demanding on the hardware.
Totally agree, but with the new dimensions of the iPhone 5, Apple may be taking the first tentative step toward resolution independence. Still, I don't think it will happen until 2014.
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 04:14 AM   #289
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Originally Posted by AidenShaw View Post
Much of the problem is that Apple IOS is brain-dead when it comes to handling screen dimensions. Only 2X is supported.

That means overkill - since the only possibility is 2048x1536 due to the primitive graphics system.

The definition of "retina" could be met by a display with fewer pixels - say 1536x1152 - which would be cheaper and less demanding on the hardware.
Is there a reason why Apple chose to handle their graphics coding the way they did? I guess it was okay when they only had 1 iphone and 1 ipad screen size screen size, but was it really just a case of short-sightedness?
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 05:32 AM   #290
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Originally Posted by AidenShaw View Post
Much of the problem is that Apple IOS is brain-dead when it comes to handling screen dimensions. Only 2X is supported.

That means overkill - since the only possibility is 2048x1536 due to the primitive graphics system.

The definition of "retina" could be met by a display with fewer pixels - say 1536x1152 - which would be cheaper and less demanding on the hardware.
It's not so much iOS, there isn't anything stopping developers from coding support for multiple resolutions. It's just for such a long time there was only one resolution, and then the iPad came along, and even now there's only three different resolutions (or workspaces, I call them) to think about.
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 09:49 AM   #291
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Originally Posted by bwillwall View Post
The iPad mini has a ppi of 132 as I'm sure you know, which is a great difference from the retina iPad 3 and 4 at 264. If Apple were to make the iPad mini 264, old apps would be scaled up just like they were on the iPhone and iPad when they first became retina...
The iPad mini at 1024x768 has a ppi of 163 (same as original iPhones). If that is doubled to 2048x1536 then the ppi will be 326 which is the same density as the latest iPhone generations. Maybe that would be overdoing it for a tablet but that's probably Apple's only option. They'll do it when it becomes feasible and practical which I would venture to guess at late 2013 or later.

I would agree with you that at sub-retina pixel sizes scalability becomes a non issue. I think that's one of the main reasons for moving to retina displays that you can zoom in and out without pixelation effects.
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 12:33 PM   #292
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Originally Posted by charlituna View Post
Apple doesn't lower their price points.
Wat

>first iPhone (the lash back on that was so bad Apple ended up doing rebates or something similar because the price was slashed in like half)
>various products such as Mac Mini

Alright the prices have gone back up again by now, but they've been lowered in the past.

One thing I agree they don't do though is compete with the bottom end / cheap market. They have always been premium. Right now though they're relying on name alone to be considered premium, which is dangerous. Whatever anti Apple folk say about " paying just for the brand", they have genuinely had better products in the past, justifying the high price point - IMO it will take at least retina to get there with the mini.
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 12:33 PM   #293
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Duh!?!?!
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 03:38 PM   #294
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They better, I wouldn't even consider one without it. I never upgraded to an iPad 2 because of it, I waited until the 3. Which I know a lot of others did as well.

I have been ruined by retina, I won't buy anything that doesn't have it
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 07:42 PM   #295
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Retina would be obvious.

Turning it into a larger phone would be awesome and perhaps unpredictable.

F
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 08:03 PM   #296
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This is surprising?
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 04:45 AM   #297
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Originally Posted by canucksfan88 View Post
apple marketing and businesses strategy at its finest.

(revision A) introduce a "revolutionary" new iPad mini and let people rave about it while omitting a screen that should have been standard

(revision B) announce a beautiful and even better than before iPad mini with a gorgeous retina high resolution display that is genius engineering ...which should have been on revA
I think its clear why Rev A didn't have a retina display, the design needed to be light and less expensive so given the current screen technologies available to Apple there was no way to get the retina screen in there with out bigger battery more weight and more expense. The only chance they had was IGZO which still wasn't available in the quantities needed. Move on a year and this new low power high resolution display technology will be available to them so it's not much of a prediction that the next version will be retina.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 07:00 AM   #298
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For some people, what you say is true. For me, and others, the iPad mini resolution is eye-searingly awful. In my review of the original iPad I complained about how low-res it was. Getting a retina display in the iPad (and iPhone) was just one of the greatest things in screen tech for me. I expect the same from the mini, and then I will buy one. It's that simple.
I totally agree. After having an iPad 3 the mini annoyed me to no end that I sold it after a few weeks (originally I planned on selling the 3). Just the way you can't even view a webpage in full screen portrait mode without zooming, rough edges on comic books, stuff like that.

The retina screen just adds so much. And without a full 2048 res it won't really be retina, because it's smaller you end up holding it closer to your eyes (at least I do), so it would need the full 326DPI the iPhone has, in order to not see the pixels.

I'll buy one again when that happens.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 07:10 AM   #299
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Originally Posted by MacinDoc View Post
Get over it, people, as CG399 and Ubele said, it's not possible to make an iPad Mini with a Retina display without essentially doubling its weight and thickness, which would more or less defeat the purpose of the Mini. It will come, but in 2014 at the earliest.
When both the iPhone and iPad gained Retina screens, did they "double" their thickness and weight? Truth is this "doubling" of weight and thickness is all conjecture. I have yet to read a detailed analysis on exactly how the mini's dimensions would be altered if it gained Retina. Plus, do you really think Apple (of all companies) wouldn't be able to figure this out?
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 08:14 AM   #300
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Originally Posted by AidenShaw View Post
Much of the problem is that Apple IOS is brain-dead when it comes to handling screen dimensions. Only 2X is supported.

That means overkill - since the only possibility is 2048x1536 due to the primitive graphics system.

The definition of "retina" could be met by a display with fewer pixels - say 1536x1152 - which would be cheaper and less demanding on the hardware.
huh??? Did you listen to the launch of Ipad 3 and Apple rational of picking 2048x1536 resolution? Apple is trying to protect the app developers by picking a resolution that is ultra-easy for app to upgrade to the new resolution. That is the reason why Apple has quality apps on Ipad. Agree to the decision or not, it is not brain dead. Remember, however one cut it, Apple still have over 50% and making almost all the money in the tablet space. it is pretty good for a brain dead decision. I wonder who is brain dead here..
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