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Old Dec 14, 2012, 01:15 PM   #26
Rogifan
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Originally Posted by YGAB View Post
here's a good Wall Street Journal video report on the iPhone 5 reception in Beijing:

http://live.wsj.com/video/shoppers-s...F-677D9D7113E0

even in "Spring City" of Kunming, Yunnan (Western China) today... the iPhone 5 reception is very chilled.


to be honest... there are so many worthy android smartphones in the Chinese Market today that utilize China's top social mobile apps such as weixing, momo, ect. just as effectively as the iPhones.... also, Samsung advertisements has been omnipresent and aggressive in the month leading to today's iPhone 5/iPad mini launch...
More FUD from Wall Street. Eventually they'll bring the stock down far enough and then come out and say what a great but it is. Yawn.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 01:23 PM   #27
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 01:32 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by golgo1313 View Post
that is because Brazil has ridiculous import duty. that is not Apple's fault. wasn't Foxconn going to build a factory in Brazil to circumvent the duty? what happened to that?
We do have high import taxes (60%). However, Foxconn Brazil has yet to mass produce iPhones 5. Current Brazil-sold iPhones are made in China. Not to mention that historically, Apple has never passed along to consumers the tax break from manufacturing locally. So yes... Apple has means of offering more accessible iPhones for consumers, yet it doesn't.

The operators are also at fault here. They could subsidize the iPhone more, but they don't.

And yes... I wanted one... But with those prices, I refuse to purchase one in Brazil. Maybe when a friend goes abroad...
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 01:38 PM   #29
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Ah so this is why AAPL stock is down 4% today. I figure when they announce they've sold 50M iPhones in the quarter the stock will probably drop 10%

nope, there is an analyst report out saying that apple just cut orders with suppliers and to expect a crappy Q1 next year. and the fact that i'm seeing the iphone 5 being discounted in the US is not helping things.

he cut earnings estimates by 20% or so
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 02:07 PM   #30
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iPhone, to a LOT of people, has been a fashion trend. As such, as all fashion trends must, iPhone trend shall too end.


Not really, LOL, its just less trendy now...
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 02:13 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
What are you basing this on? Sales figures beat out antidotal evidence of people standing outside a store. Especially in China where they have a reservation system. But I'm not surprised FUD is driving the stock down.
It is anecdotal, but so is the other side of the coin too. If long-lines greeted the introduction of the iPhone 5 in China this morning, people all over this board would be spewing how great the launch was, how high their stock must be worth, and how "all the haters" were wrong.

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I really do hope this iPhone/iPad thing blows over and fizzles. I wont Apple to go back to making computers for professionals. Yes cut out all the consumer orients "glossy" screens and put all thos engineers back to work on Mac OS X and the suite of props, like Logic and Aperture. So what if they have a 2% market share, you can choose to be in this 2% club if you like.

Eventually this WILL happen.
I don't see this happening. If it wasn't for the iPod and iPhone, there likely wouldn't be an iPad around today, because there likely wouldn't have been an Apple around today. Apple could not have survived purely based on its desktop/laptop business.

Last edited by kas23; Dec 14, 2012 at 02:19 PM.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 02:22 PM   #32
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nope, there is an analyst report out saying that apple just cut orders with suppliers and to expect a crappy Q1 next year. and the fact that i'm seeing the iphone 5 being discounted in the US is not helping things.

he cut earnings estimates by 20% or so
Who's discounting it besides Walmart maybe Best Buy? Come back to me when AT&T, Verizon and the Apple Store start doing it. Maybe then I'll be worried. As far as what some Analyst says, I don't doubt that's what's driving the stock down but I don't trust most of them as far as I can throw them. Unfortunately these days the media could report that Tim Cook arrived late to work and the stock would drop $10. Apple the company and AAPL the stock don't really seem to have much to do with each other. Hopefully Cook & Co. Have their eye on the company and not the stock.

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It is anecdotal, but so is the other side of the coin too. If long-lines greeted the introduction of the iPhone 5 in China this morning, people all over this board would be spewing how great the launch was, how high their stock must be worth, and how "all the haters" were wrong.
Of course. But I'm using the iPad mini as a reference. All the anecdotal evidence we have is it's selling really well (NPD just claimed Apple increased the number of displays needed to 12M). Yet on launch day there weren't long lines of people outside most Apple stores. Perhaps that's not the best way to gauge sales anymore.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 02:34 PM   #33
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iPhone in Brasil

Here in Brazil, in my city São Paulo a queue formed with many people during the day to launch the iPhone 5. According to the operator TIM, 1500 units were sold within hours. Unfortunately the price is not attractive here, from R $ 2,400.00 and U.S. $ 1,200.00 ... VERY EXPENSIVE.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 02:46 PM   #34
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Perhaps that's not the best way to gauge sales anymore.
That is until people start lining up again for a new Apple gadget, then everybody will taut it as the best thing ever judging from the line outside the store.

"Its awesome when Apple has it, it's not necessary if Apple don't have it"
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 03:23 PM   #35
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people who wanted it desparately have already bought it instead waiting for apple to officially release it.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 03:42 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
Who's discounting it besides Walmart maybe Best Buy? Come back to me when AT&T, Verizon and the Apple Store start doing it. Maybe then I'll be worried. As far as what some Analyst says, I don't doubt that's what's driving the stock down but I don't trust most of them as far as I can throw them. Unfortunately these days the media could report that Tim Cook arrived late to work and the stock would drop $10. Apple the company and AAPL the stock don't really seem to have much to do with each other. Hopefully Cook & Co. Have their eye on the company and not the stock.

----------


Of course. But I'm using the iPad mini as a reference. All the anecdotal evidence we have is it's selling really well (NPD just claimed Apple increased the number of displays needed to 12M). Yet on launch day there weren't long lines of people outside most Apple stores. Perhaps that's not the best way to gauge sales anymore.
when is the last time an iphone or ipad has been discounted except when a new version was due to be released in a few weeks?

nobody discounts products except when they are not selling up to expectations

i like my iphone 5 but the truth is that at this point software has made a smartphone a commodity. except for games there is nothing an iphone does that android doesn't. its better at a few things than android, but....
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 05:18 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alent1234 View Post
nope, there is an analyst report out saying that apple just cut orders with suppliers and to expect a crappy Q1 next year. and the fact that i'm seeing the iphone 5 being discounted in the US is not helping things.

he cut earnings estimates by 20% or so
He's crazy. That has never happened before.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcosSilva View Post
Here in Brazil, in my city São Paulo a queue formed with many people during the day to launch the iPhone 5. According to the operator TIM, 1500 units were sold within hours. Unfortunately the price is not attractive here, from R $ 2,400.00 and U.S. $ 1,200.00 ... VERY EXPENSIVE.
It warms my heart to know that people are lining up to give Apple $1200 for something that costs around $200 to produce. Go Apple!
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 06:05 PM   #38
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He's crazy. That has never happened before.

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It warms my heart to know that people are lining up to give Apple $1200 for something that costs around $200 to produce. Go Apple!
A fundamental Apple loyalists if I ever saw one.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 06:28 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
Ah so this is why AAPL stock is down 4% today. I figure when they announce they've sold 50M iPhones in the quarter the stock will probably drop 10%
Just what I was thinking!

"Apple's new sales policies require customers to enter a lottery for the right to purchase an iPhone in the store, with winners being given specific windows of time in which to pick up their devices."

A LOTTERY... to BUY an iPhone! Apple's really in danger here.

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No. Apple is a hardware company. The hardware is what separates Macs from Windows machines.

People like Apple hardware because it is so easy to use.
Are you being sarcastic or something? The SOFTWARE is the main thing that separates Macs from Windows machines. There's no "Windows hardware".
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 06:40 PM   #40
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I repeat... where are the crowds?

Well.... the only hardware from Microsoft is the Surface, so 1
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 07:37 PM   #41
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The SOFTWARE is the main thing that separates Macs from Windows machines. There's no "Windows hardware".
Tell you what. Go use some crappy $400 Dell for a while and then try a MacBook Pro. Get back to me with your conclusions.

Apple is a hardware company.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 07:55 PM   #42
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Tell you what. Go use some crappy $400 Dell for a while and then try a MacBook Pro. Get back to me with your conclusions.

Apple is a hardware company.
Unfair comparison; the MacBook Pro costs at least $1200.

Tell you what. Go get your MacBook Pro, and install Windows on it. Then tell me which is better, the MBP running Windows or the MBP running Mac OS. Then get the $400 Dell, illegally install Mac OS on it, then report on whether the Dell is better running Windows or Mac OS.

In reality, Apple is hardware and software company. They develop both. For Macs, the software is what sets them apart the most. All current Macs can run Windows, too.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 08:30 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Merlin9 View Post
Even my Samsung Nexus S looks better than the Iphone 5 in black. The Iphone 4/4s was special because of the elegant design. The Iphone 5 is nothing special. Not the design, not the display. And even the software is not so special anymore...

I am not an Android "fanboy" btw. I own a Mac and will own an Ipad Mini in a few days...
Lol you got to be serious..glossy nexus s vs s machined down aluminum iphone in slate, which looks alot better then the Nexus s you could of said another phone
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 09:30 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by akbarali.ch View Post
people who wanted it desparately have already bought it instead waiting for apple to officially release it.
Yes and no, although I have a small sample size in our Shanghai office, of a 25 person workforce, about 20 own iPhones, one owns a Nokia n900 one owns a Huawei and the rest own some HTCs. There are 3 people who have iPhone 5s and bought theirs on the grey market or abroad (including me) and the rest 'ohh and ahh' over them. Even now I get bar staff and taxi drivers and freaking people in bank queues (queuing, a rare thing in China!) who stare and ask "iPhone 5?" And want to look at it. Without exception all of them whip out their iPhone 4/4s and do the size and weight comparison.

Now this is totally anecdotal, but it does suggest there is still a great deal of excitement for the 5 in china. Also the scalpers learnt from last weeks iPad mini launch that you can't hoard off stock for the grey market easily because the lottery and the need to enter a valid ID card number to actually buy one ... A friend of mine in the office has tried every day for the last week to secure a mini in store to no success, so they must be in demand. Of course you can still order online and queue with everyone else.

Now the stifling factors are obviously price sensitivity and android competition in china (mostly as I see it from local and neighbouring products like HTC, oppo, xiaomi, huawei and lenovo etc - I see very few sammys except the stupid "Notes") but also from the fact that the new iPhone is nearly 800rmb cheaper in Hong Kong (about $125) and most critically a saturation of 4 and 4S's in the city. I mean our secretary who must make less than 4000 RMB a month even has a 4S. On that wage and a 2 year contract she's not likely to be upgrading any time soon.

I know Shanghai is pretty international and as such isn't really a good indicator of the whole Chinese market, these are simply my observations.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 02:06 AM   #45
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What's sad is those two were there just to buy headphones.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 02:44 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
And you're basing this on?[COLOR="#808080"]
The fact that the Samsung S3 and the Galaxy Note 3 have all had spectacular launches. 30 million+ Galaxy S3s have been sold, that is not a number to be trifled with.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 04:01 AM   #47
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Lol you got to be serious..glossy nexus s vs s machined down aluminum iphone in slate, which looks alot better then the Nexus s you could of said another phone
But the form factor is better and considering many people use a skin anyway the form factor is important too. The black Iphone 5 is one of the ugliest phones out there imo (at least the front, the backs is pretty good) . I like the white Iphone thought but it's a little too shiny for me. If the HTC One or the Nokia Lumia 920 were Iphones and the Iphone a Nokia everybody in here would praise them and bash the Iphone...
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 06:23 AM   #48
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The fact that the Samsung S3 and the Galaxy Note 3 have all had spectacular launches. 30 million+ Galaxy S3s have been sold, that is not a number to be trifled with.
Yeah and I bet Apple will shift at least that many iPhone 5's. so what.

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Originally Posted by alent1234 View Post
when is the last time an iphone or ipad has been discounted except when a new version was due to be released in a few weeks?

nobody discounts products except when they are not selling up to expectations

i like my iphone 5 but the truth is that at this point software has made a smartphone a commodity. except for games there is nothing an iphone does that android doesn't. its better at a few things than android, but....
Well Best Buy has the iPhone 5 and Galaxy S3 on sale for $149. I guess the S3 isn't selling then either? Oh and AT&T is selling the Lumia 920 for $99. Another one that must not be selling since AT&T has dropped the price. I'm sorry but this is silly. It's the holiday season and you have one retailer that is struggling (Best Buy) and another that is all about deep discounts. I don't think anything can be read into that expect that BB and Walmart are trying to lure people into their stores with good deals.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 07:35 AM   #49
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I think the reception to the iPhone 5 has been "muted" outside of the USA for the following reasons:

1. Other than the new display and new internals, it's not a significant jump over the iPhone 4S. And the new display is disappointing in terms of size compared to what you get with the best models from Samsung, HTC and LG.

2. The iPhone 5 lacks NFC, which is VERY necessary for countries where mobile payment systems are common like South Korea, Japan and parts of Europe. For example, in Japan all you need is load the right software and an NFC-enabled smartphone like the Samsung Galaxy S III or HTC One X could be used for the mobile phone version of the Suica payment card system used widely for travel on JR East commuter trains in the Tokyo area.

3. The iPhone 5 is still not officially supported by China Mobile, the world's largest cellphone company with some 700 million users.

I think Apple's priority right now is to roll out a version of the iPhone 5 designed specifically for China Mobile's cellphone network. Once that happens--probably by mid to late spring 2013--Apple's profits will zoom through the roof as many millions of China Mobile users switch to the iPhone 5.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 07:35 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faroZ06 View Post
Unfair comparison; the MacBook Pro costs at least $1200.

Tell you what. Go get your MacBook Pro, and install Windows on it. Then tell me which is better, the MBP running Windows or the MBP running Mac OS. Then get the $400 Dell, illegally install Mac OS on it, then report on whether the Dell is better running Windows or Mac OS.

In reality, Apple is hardware and software company. They develop both. For Macs, the software is what sets them apart the most. All current Macs can run Windows, too.
Apple's gross margin pales in comparison to that of Microsoft. If Apple were a software company, that would be bad. Therefore, apple is a hardware company, which explains why their gross margin is lower than that of Microsoft.
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