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Old Dec 15, 2012, 07:07 AM   #51
digitalfailure
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No worries

On the face of this thread I think I might buy another 16gb kit to ensure all my ram is the same speed.

Great 500px too Richard
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 07:10 AM   #52
theSeb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indy911 View Post

CL11 RAM is not inferior, it just runs at a slower timing.
The rest of your post was spot on, but I am confused why you said this.


If something can only run at a slower timing, which was found by testing, it must therefore be inferior, unless our definitions of inferior are different. Your statement is suggesting that the GPU in a 670 is not inferior to the GPU in the 680, it's just capable of "slower timing".

1600 MHz CL 9 is more expensive than 1600 MHz CL10 RAM, which is more expensive than 1600 MHz CL11 RAM. So how is it CL 11 is not judged inferior and then put into the budget memory? It's like saying that a BMW 320 is not inferior to the BMW M3. It's just slower. I guess it depends on what you think inferior means in the context.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by burninggarlic View Post
This smbios was what I meant.
Sorry, I have never seen that and was only aware of a Windows version. I do not know what it does and how it works in OS X.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Peters View Post
Sorry yes, I didn't make myself clear there. I've got 32gb ram sitting here that's CL11, so I was wondering if I should swap that for something that's CL10. Going off on a slight tangent from the original thread topic, apologies
It should work perfectly fine, since you are not mixing. So the best advice is to try it and see if the iMac is happy with it. If it's not, then return it.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 07:28 AM   #53
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I'd match the memory modules' brand and model number.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 07:29 AM   #54
sjz88
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Hum I really don't know what to do with my 16GB Crucial RAM.
Maybe put in ONLY the 16 GB from Crucial. Or ONLY the 8 GB from Apple?
How much of a different does CL 9 really make compared to CL 11? Will I even notice?
So what will be the fastest and best option in your opinion?
1.) 8 GB Apple RAM
2.) 16 GB Crucial RAM
3.) 8 GB + 16 GB = 24 GB combined Apple and Crucial

?
Thanks in advance!
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 07:53 AM   #55
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Well I'm on the fence on what to do with my pair of Corsair CL10 sticks. I guess I'll wait and see what happens when I pop them in. Seeing as the price of the CL9 ram is almost double, I would say the best route is just to double up and go 32gb
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 07:54 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theSeb View Post
The rest of your post was spot on, but I am confused why you said this.


If something can only run at a slower timing, which was found by testing, it must therefore be inferior, unless our definitions of inferior are different. Your statement is suggesting that the GPU in a 670 is not inferior to the GPU in the 680, it's just capable of "slower timing".
Your definition of inferior seems to be solely based on the CAS latency of a memory module. I think it is a little more subtle than that. Let's leave it at that.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 07:59 AM   #57
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Can anyone actually confirm the Apple memory is CL9 and not CL11.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 08:05 AM   #58
theSeb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arman View Post
Can anyone actually confirm the Apple memory is CL9 and not CL11.
You are right. Apple's RAM actually could be CL11, which would also explain what the OP is seeing. The tear downs so far by iFixit have been lacking in this type of information.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 08:06 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post
Good to know it's just the mixing of brands causing the issue. Shame that happens, though. And it seems the stock RAM really does come in slots 1 and 3. Also good to know!

And yes, I am everywhere, bahaha!
Well, at least I was half right. Apple rep must not have known specifics, and just agreed with me. Apple did fill in the slots that are paired, just seems odd that they don't address them them differently, but that my be a physical issue with routing the leads on the board. Wonder if this has always been the case, as I've had a couple of desktops over the years with 4 slots... Although I think they always came full, and I always replaced them all.

Ah well, the advice to fill in the empty slots still applies. Thanks everyone for their contributions.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 08:10 AM   #60
theSeb
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Originally Posted by indy911 View Post
Your definition of inferior seems to be solely based on the CAS latency of a memory module. I think it is a little more subtle than that. Let's leave it at that.
If a memory module needs to have a CAS latency of 11 to run at 1600 MHz, then it is inferior to a memory module that can run at 1600 MHz at CL of 9. Would you disagree with this statement?

There are of course other things that come into the equation, such as RCD, tRP, tRAS, tRC and CR. But when a memory has a low CL, it's normal for it to have better figures for all those as well.

Memory generally comes in 9-9-9 or 10-10-10. I have never seen some magical memory that has a high CL and then the other figures are amazingly fast. That would not make any sense whatsoever.

All of Kingston's Value RAM running at 1600 MHz is CL 11 (DDR3-1600 timing of 11-11-11 at
1.5V)

All of Kingston's HyperX Blu (entry-level high performance) RAM running at 1600 MHz is CL10 or CL9

As you go up the range, it's pretty easy to spot the pattern.

Without boring people here that had the fortune of not studying this at University, it is a safe guideline that when comparing memory running at the same MHz, the one with the higher CL is slower and inferior.

For those that are really bored, or interested, they can always calculate the calculable latency, bit time and cycle time and compare.
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Last edited by theSeb; Dec 15, 2012 at 08:22 AM.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 08:19 AM   #61
Arman
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Checked ifixit website. 21.5 ram is CL11. Assuming for now same us true for 27. Those with Crucial ram upgrade should be good to go.

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iMac+Intel+21.5-Inch+EMC+2544+Teardown/11936/3
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 08:26 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arman View Post
Checked ifixit website. 21.5 ram is CL11. Assuming for now same us true for 27. Those with Crucial ram upgrade should be good to go.

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iMac+...ardown/11936/3
Good news thanks for sharing! So hopefully my 16GB Crucial RAM will run with 1600Mhz and the 8GB Apple RAM too. How can I see at what frequency the RAM is running? Is there a free application?
The money Apple wants for it's RAM is all the crazier if you consider it is CL11....
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 08:27 AM   #63
theSeb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arman View Post
Checked ifixit website. 21.5 ram is CL11. Assuming for now same us true for 27. Those with Crucial ram upgrade should be good to go.

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iMac+...ardown/11936/3
Ahh, very good find. It looks as though it wasn't the iFixit tear down that was the problem. It was my speed reading and inability to click on all of the thumb nails.

It's probably safe to assume that the 27" also has CL11. I have to say that it does not surprise me that Apple would cheap out here, but it really makes the mind boggle when one considers the price of the memory upgrades.

Yes, those who have purchased Crucial's CL 11 kit are good to go and *should* be able to mix with Apple's RAM, but I still would not recommend it. Those that have purchased CL10 or CL9 kits will see their memory speed lowered.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjz88 View Post
Good news thanks for sharing! So hopefully my 16GB Crucial RAM will run with 1600Mhz and the 8GB Apple RAM too. How can I see at what frequency the RAM is running? Is there a free application?
The money Apple wants for it's RAM is all the crazier if you consider it is CL11....
Click on the Apple menu in the top left corner. Then click on "About My Mac". The information is there.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 08:29 AM   #64
sjz88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theSeb View Post

Click on the Apple menu in the top left corner. Then click on "About My Mac". The information is there.
Wow that was too easy... certainly worth a facepalm
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 08:46 AM   #65
Arman
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Originally Posted by Jazwire View Post
Just got my new 2012 iMac set up, I ordered it with 16 gb (2x8) , and then purchased a Corsair Vengeance Kit from Amazon (the one several people have linked in here) it is 1600mhz ram I'm looking right at the box as I type.

The model number of the ram confirms it is 1600mhz, CMSX16GX3M2A1600C10

But when I go to "About this Mac" it does show correctly 32GB, but it's running at 1333mhz not 1600mhz.

And if I go to Hardware/Memory it shows all 4 sticks running at 1333mhz.


Any ideas???
Jazwire, can u pull the stock ram on your iMac and confirm the Model number/Cas Latency? A pic would be even better.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 08:46 AM   #66
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Wow that was too easy... certainly worth a facepalm
The one who is face-palming right now is me, due to my silly assumption that Apple had not cheaped out on the memory in the iMac.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 09:24 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arman View Post
Checked ifixit website. 21.5 ram is CL11. Assuming for now same us true for 27. Those with Crucial ram upgrade should be good to go.

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iMac+...ardown/11936/3
Here's the data sheet for that memory module:
http://www.skhynix.com/inc/pdfDownlo...s(Rev.1.0).pdf

It supports CL11 at 1600 MHz, CL9 & CL10 at 1333MHz.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 09:36 AM   #68
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so now we have reached the conclusion?
just need to make sure the ram we need is 204 pin 1600MHz CL11 DDR3
right?
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 09:36 AM   #69
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Um, So I just ordered 32gbs of ram for my 27" from OWC
(http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%20World%20Computing/1600DDR3S32S/).

How am I looking in context of all this?
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 09:43 AM   #70
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so now we have reached the conclusion?
just need to make sure the ram we need is 204 pin 1600MHz CL11 DDR3
right?
No. You only need that RAM if you're planning to add it to the stock RAM. And even then mixing different brands is not a good idea. Buy the RAM that you can afford that meets these specifications:

PC3-12800
(1600) DDR3
204-pin
SO-DIMM

It's best to buy the same sticks from the same manufacturer. 1600 MHz CL9 RAM will be faster than 1600 MHz CL10 RAM which will be faster than 1600 MHz CL11 RAM.

The really interesting question is how will the motherboard handle 1866 MHz CL10 RAM.

----------

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Originally Posted by brock2621 View Post
Um, So I just ordered 32gbs of ram for my 27" from OWC
(http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other.../1600DDR3S32S/).

How am I looking in context of all this?
You're looking fine, but you could have bought faster RAM. Real world difference? Not something that you would really notice.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 09:56 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by theSeb View Post
No. You only need that RAM if you're planning to add it to the stock RAM. And even then mixing different brands is not a good idea. Buy the RAM that you can afford that meets these specifications:

PC3-12800
(1600) DDR3
204-pin
SO-DIMM

It's best to buy the same sticks from the same manufacturer. 1600 MHz CL9 RAM will be faster than 1600 MHz CL10 RAM which will be faster than 1600 MHz CL11 RAM.

The really interesting question is how will the motherboard handle 1866 MHz CL10 RAM.

----------



You're looking fine, but you could have bought faster RAM. Real world difference? Not something that you would really notice.
You are probably right.

I was trying to make this thread clear. The reason of 1600MHz just running with 1333MHz is because he bought CL10 ram and add it to the stock ram, which is CL11.

There are certainly more better and expensive options. But computer is not the only gear we are paying for (at least not me). I totally understand "buy the most expensive one you can afford". The strongest controversy for myself is, that I cannot afford all the most expensive ones, I have to make a choice. Ram is not the highest priority.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 10:02 AM   #72
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The reason of 1600MHz just running with 1333MHz is because he bought CL10 ram and add it to the stock ram, which is CL11.
Correct.

Quote:
There are certainly more better and expensive options. But computer is not the only gear we are paying for (at least not me). I totally understand "buy the most expensive one you can afford". The strongest controversy for myself is, that I cannot afford all the most expensive ones, I have to make a choice. Ram is not the highest priority.
There will always be someone stronger, richer and have better toys than you so trying to chase the fastest is pointless.

But when it comes to RAM and the difference in price between CL11 and CL9 is normally the equivalent of a pair of cinema tickets and a pint of beer, then I don't think that argument applies. Unless you get by on pocket money.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 10:17 AM   #73
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Correct.


There will always be someone stronger, richer and have better toys than you so trying to chase the fastest is pointless.

But when it comes to RAM and the difference in price between CL11 and CL9 is normally the equivalent of a pair of cinema tickets and a pint of beer, then I don't think that argument applies. Unless you get by on pocket money.
I found the price of cl9 ram for mac 2012, which is more than $200/pair (2x8gb). So if I am going for 32 gb, it will cost over $500. Just for ram? No thanks. I can buy some filters from Lee or Tiffen with this money. The ram will just follow me max 5 years. The extra filters can follow me forever.

I am not arguing. I just hope you can get my point. I do not against yours. Because people do have different needs.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 10:20 AM   #74
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I found the price of cl9 ram for mac 2012, which is more than $200/pair (2x8gb). So if I am going for 32 gb, it will cost over $500. Just for ram? No thanks. I can buy some filters from Lee or Tiffen with this money. The ram will just follow me max 5 years. The extra filters can follow me forever.

I am not arguing. I just hope you can get my point. I do not against yours. Because people do have different needs.
Where are you looking and where do you live mate? Here is Kingston for $135 / 16 GBs

http://www.amazon.com/1600MHz-PC3-12.../dp/B008H7IGGI

Edit: Ok, so maybe it's a couple of pints of beer difference.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 10:37 AM   #75
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Where are you looking and where do you live mate? Here is Kingston for $135 / 16 GBs

http://www.amazon.com/1600MHz-PC3-12.../dp/B008H7IGGI

Edit: Ok, so maybe it's a couple of pints of beer difference.
Yes, 204 pin and 240 pin really make huge huge difference on price. That is irritating!
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