Go Back   MacRumors Forums > Special Interests > Mac and PC Games

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Jul 24, 2014, 09:23 AM   #1
DrLemur
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Bootcamp gaming on the Mac Pro

I'm running a 6-core duel AMD GPU 3Gb firepro machine (16GB RAM) and running games under bootcamp from an external USB drive. I assumed I should be able to max out any PC game I could throw at this machine but the results so far have been pretty awful.. particularly the frame rate and use of the second GPU. Turning crossfire off helps some and makes some games playable that otherwise are not but so far I'm really disappointed with gaming on Windows 8.1 on this machine. I had better results on Windows 7 running a mere quad core iMac than this. Can anyone help me understand why I'm getting such crappy framerates (under 25fps) when running at high resolutions? Is it because I am running the games from my external drive not my internal? ( The internal is only 256GB unfortunately and simply has no room for all or any of my games since it's almost all being taken up by apps. )

I am thinking maybe I need to install something like catalyst or some graphics drivers maybe I'm missing out on. Would love to hear from someone else gaming via bootcamp on Windows 8 and how they run their system best.. All my settings are on default in the Firepro control centre and I have crossfire turned off. ( As for some reason when I turn it on many games crap themselves. )
DrLemur is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 24, 2014, 01:53 PM   #2
monokitty
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
The FirePro video cards are not gaming cards. That's probably the biggest issue. Make sure the latest drivers for the cards are installed, too; additionally, not all games can take advantage of multiple video cards. Has nothing to do with running the games from an external drive, unless it's perhaps a USB 2.0 drive, but even then, I doubt it.
__________________
MacBook Pro (15-inch, Mid 2012) 2.3 GHz Core i7, 8GB, 256GB M4 SSD
monokitty is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 24, 2014, 02:38 PM   #3
araey
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Toronto, Ontario.
That sounds odd to me.

I have a mac pro -

3.7GHz quad-core with 10MB of L3 cache
32GB (4x8GB) of 1866MHz DDR3 ECC
1TB PCIe-based flash storage
Dual AMD FirePro D700 GPUs with 6GB of GDDR5 VRAM each


I run windows 8.1 under bootcamp and have awesome results with any game i throw at it.

ESO i get 60 fps steady on everything at Ultra (including pvp) and 70-80 in dungeons in Ultra.

WoW i get 120 FPS with everything at Ultra and 90-100 fps in raid setting.

Skyrim gave me 100 fps - ultra

Wildstar gave me 80 fps - ultra

etc.

Seems odd that you are getting such bad performance. What firepro GPU models do you have?

Note - XFire enabled for all games for me.
I have windows installed on internal HD partitioned.
All games running at 1440p native res on 2 27" Apple TBDs.
araey is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 24, 2014, 09:29 PM   #4
DrLemur
Thread Starter
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Yeah see even half that performance you are getting I was expecting. It seems to depend on the game too.. since I just ran Max Payne 3 and that runs at a solid 60fps. Any 3d app or something like cry engine though always under 25fps. Did you install anything other than the fire pro centre that already was on there driver wise?

My cards are "AMD FirePro D500 3072 MB" Are you using crossfire with Skyrim? I get purple flashes if I turn it on.

The only thing I can think of was my external drive is running via my thunderbolt screen (which is only USB 2) because my mac pro won't let me read and write from it when directly connected.. for some unknown reason.

Still this makes no sense though since my 3d apps are running off the internal drive and still give me bad rates.. plus on the mac OS itself game frame rates are brilliant and I'm maxing games out just fine. Weird one this one..
DrLemur is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 29, 2014, 04:14 PM   #5
goMac
macrumors 603
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by monokitty View Post
The FirePro video cards are not gaming cards. That's probably the biggest issue. Make sure the latest drivers for the cards are installed, too; additionally, not all games can take advantage of multiple video cards. Has nothing to do with running the games from an external drive, unless it's perhaps a USB 2.0 drive, but even then, I doubt it.
The FirePros are just gaming cards with more VRAM. No reason they can't play games well. In fact, if you look at benchmarks, they bench exactly the same as the gaming cards models they are based on. I don't remember what the D500 is, but the D700 is just a 7970 with extra VRAM.
goMac is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 1, 2014, 06:09 AM   #6
h9826790
macrumors 68000
 
h9826790's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Hong Kong
Quote:
Originally Posted by goMac View Post
The FirePros are just gaming cards with more VRAM. No reason they can't play games well. In fact, if you look at benchmarks, they bench exactly the same as the gaming cards models they are based on. I don't remember what the D500 is, but the D700 is just a 7970 with extra VRAM.
Yes it is, if you install the correct driver for gaming.
__________________
Mac Pro 2009 (Flashed 5,1), W3690 32G, HD7950 Mac Edition, 840 Evo 1T (Tempo SSD), 8TB HDDs (RAID 0), USB 3.0 (PME-4U + Prostation 3.0 + M3H73P-SV), BT 4.0, 27" ACD + 84" LG 4K TV, TCx2
h9826790 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 5, 2014, 03:35 AM   #7
DrLemur
Thread Starter
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by h9826790 View Post
Yes it is, if you install the correct driver for gaming.
But what is the correct driver for gaming.. it's certainly not the latest one or the one the AMD site auto detects because after all this time I still have awful results.. plus every time I install those I get errors in the log (even though they do install) At one point I went through a whole bunch of drivers (being sure to uninstall properly with a tool) and hit one that worked not perfect but acceptably well.. I had issues with my system for other reasons, had to reinstall WIN 8.1 and could never figure out which driver I had installed that had worked previously. Of all my forum hopping on the topic I've never had someone say "Hey THIS is THE driver to use for the mac pro that's best for gaming." They usually just say get the latest.

Maybe I have other issues that are preventing the driver from doing it's job I have no idea but it is really frustrating to have paid so much for this system and it not be able to perform anywhere near it's potential.
DrLemur is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 5, 2014, 05:14 AM   #8
koyoot
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
First of all, we dont know what games you are playing in what resolutions and in what detail levels.

That would help us a lot. FirePro should be capable of running games, at full power, out of the box in Windows.
koyoot is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 5, 2014, 05:38 AM   #9
DrLemur
Thread Starter
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
That's definitely not been my experience. I could never get any game working right out of the box in Win 8.1 64 bit on this Mac Pro. It didn't matter what it was or what settings ( believe me I tried them all ). Only got it working after I installed / updated this mystery driver whatever it was.. The bootcamp drivers are rubbish.

Anyway I am running games like Farcry 4, The new Wolfenstein, Walking Dead Telltale game on. (which is not demanding AT ALL and still experiences lack of texture detail and my main issue which seems to be that anti aliasing doesn't work at all regardless of whether the settings are altered in game or overridden by the firepro cp.) Huge jaggies everywhere.

I've tried using 14.11 catalyst beta drivers, the 14.9 ones and various others for the hell of it.. with the same results. (The device manager detects my cards as Radeon 7800's even though they are AMD D500 GPUs.)
I thought maybe my directX was malfunctioning but since it was installed with 8.1 there doesn't seem to be any way (that I know of) to reinstall directx other than reinstall the system.. which seems pretty stupid.. I will try that though as a last resort if no one has any other ideas. Pulling my hair out over this. Especially since I had it working once fine and certain people are trying to tell me it's impossible to run PC games on this system via bootcamp.
DrLemur is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 5, 2014, 05:58 AM   #10
antonis
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
I'm running everything using...well...the latest catalyst drivers from AMD, always everything on max details without any issues (talking about really demanding AAA titles, like "Lord of the Rings:Shadows of Mordor", "Dark Souls II" and "Ryse: Son of Rome"). I also confirm that the driver will report the GPUs as 7800s; that's normal. Don't expect to see any D700 using the AMD catalyst drivers; they don't have the information for this GPU name, these are only for Apple.

Other than using the driver uninstaller tool in order to be able to switch from one version to the next smoothly, and getting rid of the bootcamp GPU drivers from day 1 (which also worked fine but they lack just a tiny bit on performance regarding games, plus catalyst drivers update more often), nothing else was really needed. So, in my experience, looking for "the right" driver version is not the way to go. The Mac Pro when running Windows is just like any other PC, so just grabbing the latest catalysts available, is the standard.

What I'd try, however, before attempting to reinstall the OS itself, is to turn off Crossfire completely. There are a couple of external utilities that will help you bypass the issues some games have with Crossfire (and maybe the ones you try fall in that category), but let's find the reason of your problems first.
antonis is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 5, 2014, 06:10 AM   #11
DrLemur
Thread Starter
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by antonis View Post

Other than using the driver uninstaller tool in order to be able to switch from one version to the next smoothly, and getting rid of the bootcamp GPU drivers from day 1 (which also worked fine but they lack just a tiny bit on performance regarding games, plus catalyst drivers update more often), nothing else was really needed. So, in my experience, looking for "the right" driver version is not the way to go. The Mac Pro when running Windows is just like any other PC, so just grabbing the latest catalysts available.
Wait.. so maybe that's one of the things I haven't done. How do I get rid of the bootcamp GPU drivers? As for the latest drivers.. The system claims it's 14.9 but there's also a beta 14.11 (which doesn't install anyway I just get a "package install error" when I try) Also there are associated optional chipset drivers or something on the AMD page.. Do those need installed too? I'll put 14.9 drivers in again on their own for now and turn off crossfire completely and see how it goes.
DrLemur is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 5, 2014, 06:18 AM   #12
saturnotaku
macrumors 68000
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrLemur View Post
Wait.. so maybe that's one of the things I haven't done. How do I get rid of the bootcamp GPU drivers?
Go into the programs and features section of the control panel, select AMD Catalyst Install Manager, then Change from the top of the menu, and follow the prompts. Reboot when finished.

Quote:
Also there are associated optional chipset drivers or something on the AMD page.. Do those need installed too?
No, those are for computers with AMD CPUs and motherboards.

The only drivers that are compatible with the Mac Pro are the ones you downloaded from Apple. Since the GPUs in those machines are basically proprietary units, it's unlikely AMD will develop drivers specifically for them. The onus will be on Apple to provide updates, and given that Windows/Boot Camp support is pretty far down on their list of priorities, don't count on those coming on any sort of regular basis.
__________________
MacBook Pro 15 (Late 2011)
Core i7 2860QM | 16 GB RAM | AMD Radeon 6770M | 1 TB Samsung 840 EVO SSD | Antiglare Display | OS X + Win 8.1
iPhone 6 Plus (Verizon 64 GB)
saturnotaku is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 5, 2014, 07:12 AM   #13
DrLemur
Thread Starter
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Okay well it appears I've been very stupid then and have created even more problems than existed in the first place.. I don't know if things can even be fixed from here. I'll outline the things I've done. ( I know I should have read more carefully before installing things willy nilly.. no excuse for that. )

Ok so those extra chipset optional ones I told you about.. well unfortunately I'd already tried installing them and now you explain what they are it may make more sense why I've been getting install / uninstall errors etc.. I've uninstalled one of those but the other crashes when I try.. But here was my process after that.

0. Uninstalled AMD install manager

1. Used driver uninstaller in safe mode to rid myself of (hopefully all) drivers. It worked but in device manager the display adapters now come up as generic.

2. To fix the above I went to windows update and installed whatever display drivers it went and got.. Upon returning to device manager it now says "AMD Radeon 7800" two times but for the second card there is a "!" in yellow.. Closer inspection reveals windows has shut down this card for an unknown reason (error "code 43") That's never happened before and has me worried..

* So now any attempt at all from here to install drivers results in "install package failure!"

So what do I do from here just to fix whatever damage I've done with my ignorance? Once I fix the problems I've caused myself I can finally get back to trying to fix the problems I had. *sigh*

----------

Alright forget that.. I restarted twice and that error went away magically..

The problem of all drivers "install package failure" etc remains however.
DrLemur is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 5, 2014, 08:09 AM   #14
DrLemur
Thread Starter
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Not sure if it'll make sense to anyone here.. ( I know it doesn't to me. ) But my error log as long as it is.. is as follows:

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<?xml-stylesheet type="text/xsl" href="Report.xml.xsl"?>
<monetreport xmlns:dt="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:datatypes">
<general>
<cmdline>-UI </cmdline>
<time>12/06/14 01:02:09</time>
<action>install</action>
<download></download>
</general>
<dcm>
<primary>
<name>AMD Radeon HD 7800 Series</name>
<manufacture>Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.</manufacture>
<chiptype></chiptype>
<chipid>0x679e</chipid>
<vendorid>0x1002</vendorid>
<ssid>0x0126</ssid>
<ssvid>0x106b</ssvid>
<classcode>0x030000</classcode>
<revisionid>0x00</revisionid>
</primary>
<device>
<name>AMD Radeon HD 7800 Series</name>
<manufacture>Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.</manufacture>
<chiptype></chiptype>
<chipid>0xaaa0</chipid>
<vendorid>0x1002</vendorid>
<ssid>0x0125</ssid>
<ssvid>0x106b</ssvid>
<classcode>0x040300</classcode>
<revisionid>0x00</revisionid>
</device>
<device>
<name>AMD Radeon HD 7800 Series</name>
<manufacture>Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.</manufacture>
<chiptype></chiptype>
<chipid>0x679e</chipid>
<vendorid>0x1002</vendorid>
<ssid>0x0125</ssid>
<ssvid>0x106b</ssvid>
<classcode>0x030000</classcode>
<revisionid>0x00</revisionid>
</device>
<device>
<name>AMD Radeon HD 7800 Series</name>
<manufacture>Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.</manufacture>
<chiptype></chiptype>
<chipid>0xaaa0</chipid>
<vendorid>0x1002</vendorid>
<ssid>0x0126</ssid>
<ssvid>0x106b</ssvid>
<classcode>0x040300</classcode>
<revisionid>0x00</revisionid>
</device>
</dcm>
<exist>
</exist>
<install>
<package>
<description>AMD Catalyst Install Manager</description>
<result>Succeed</result>
<version>8.0.916.0</version>
<size>20 </size>
</package>
<package>
<description>Microsoft Visual C++ 2012 Redistributable (x86)</description>
<result>Succeed</result>
<version>11.0.50727</version>
<size>9 </size>
</package>
<package>
<description>AMD Display Driver</description>
<result>Succeed</result>
<version>14.301.1001.0000</version>
<size>90 </size>
</package>
<package>
<description>HDMI Audio Driver</description>
<result>Succeed</result>
<version>9.0.0.9905</version>
<size>1 </size>
</package>
<package>
<description>Microsoft Visual C++ 2012 Redistributable (x64)</description>
<result>Succeed</result>
<version>11.0.50727</version>
<size>9 </size>
</package>
<package>
<description>AMD Accelerated Video Transcoding</description>
<result>Succeed</result>
<version>13.30.100.40915</version>
<size>3 </size>
</package>
<package>
<description>AMD FirePro Control Center</description>
<result>Succeed</result>
<version>2014.0915.1813.30937</version>
<size>150 </size>
</package>
</install>
<uninstall>
</uninstall>
<downloaded>
</downloaded>
<resource>
<hwinfo>Hardware information</hwinfo>
<existpkg>Existing packages</existpkg>
<pkg2inst>Packages for install</pkg2inst>
<pkg2uninst>Packages for uninstall</pkg2uninst>
<otherdev>Other detected devices</otherdev>
<errmsg>Error messages</errmsg>
<name>Name</name>
<manufacture>Manufacturer</manufacture>
<chiptype>Chip type</chiptype>
<chipid>Device ID</chipid>
<otherhw>Other hardware</otherhw>
<download>Download packages</download>
<succeed>Success</succeed>
<fail>Fail</fail>
<vendorid>Vendor ID</vendorid>
<classcode>Class Code</classcode>
<revisionid>Revision ID</revisionid>
<ssid>Subsystem ID</ssid>
<ssvid>Subsystem vendor ID</ssvid>
<header1>Catalyst™ Install Manager</header1>
<header2>Installation Report</header2>
<finalstatus>Final Status:</finalstatus>
<versionofitem>Version of Item:</versionofitem>
<size>Size:</size>
<bytes>Mbytes</bytes>
</resource>
<error><msg>Application Install: install package failure!</msg></error></monetreport>
DrLemur is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 5, 2014, 08:55 AM   #15
antonis
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrLemur View Post
Wait.. so maybe that's one of the things I haven't done. How do I get rid of the bootcamp GPU drivers? As for the latest drivers.. The system claims it's 14.9 but there's also a beta 14.11 (which doesn't install anyway I just get a "package install error" when I try) Also there are associated optional chipset drivers or something on the AMD page.. Do those need installed too? I'll put 14.9 drivers in again on their own for now and turn off crossfire completely and see how it goes.
Don't bother with the beta drivers; the only reason you would want them installed is because they solve an issue with a specific newly-released game (e.g. a performance issue, or a crossfire issue). Under normal conditions, you should always be ok with the latest stable offered in the drivers download page (never used any wizard, just download manually whatever is there).

The bootcamp GPU drivers were removed using the same procedure. The driver uninstaller should do that successfully.
antonis is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 5, 2014, 10:19 AM   #16
saturnotaku
macrumors 68000
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by antonis View Post
Don't bother with the beta drivers; the only reason you would want them installed is because they solve an issue with a specific newly-released game (e.g. a performance issue, or a crossfire issue). Under normal conditions, you should always be ok with the latest stable offered in the drivers download page (never used any wizard, just download manually whatever is there).

The bootcamp GPU drivers were removed using the same procedure. The driver uninstaller should do that successfully.
The drivers available from AMD do not support the FirePro line of GPUs.
__________________
MacBook Pro 15 (Late 2011)
Core i7 2860QM | 16 GB RAM | AMD Radeon 6770M | 1 TB Samsung 840 EVO SSD | Antiglare Display | OS X + Win 8.1
iPhone 6 Plus (Verizon 64 GB)
saturnotaku is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 5, 2014, 01:05 PM   #17
antonis
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by saturnotaku View Post
The drivers available from AMD do not support the FirePro line of GPUs.
They work perfectly fine with Dxx cards of Mac Pro and they are better than Bootcamp ones for gaming use. Control center will still report as "FireRo Control Center" while device manager will display the GPUs as "7800". I'm using them for many months now with excellent results.
antonis is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 5, 2014, 08:46 PM   #18
DrLemur
Thread Starter
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Ditched the beta.. I put the regular 14.9 drivers in yet again.. they didn't work.. Out of frustration I just kept on putting them in and they kept package install / uninstall failing (on the firepro control centre at the end it fails) Anyway even though it failed to complete the install I tried a few games anyway and this last time for some unknown reason.. Suddenly and inexplicably (As seems to be the nonsensical illogical way windows likes to operate much of the time but hey in this case I'm not complaining..) all my games look and run beautifully. The only thing is I don't have the Firepro control centre.. but I guess I'll live without that if it means not having to spend an eternity reinstalling and reconfiguring my system. Nothing seems to be wrong now so I'll just leave it be. Thanks for the responses guys. Really appreciate it.
DrLemur is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 6, 2014, 02:00 AM   #19
h9826790
macrumors 68000
 
h9826790's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Hong Kong
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrLemur View Post
Nothing seems to be wrong now so I'll just leave it be. Thanks for the responses guys. Really appreciate it.
Just a little suggestion. Clone the Windows to an image file now. Just incase something goes wrong, you don't have to go through this "try by error" procedure again.
__________________
Mac Pro 2009 (Flashed 5,1), W3690 32G, HD7950 Mac Edition, 840 Evo 1T (Tempo SSD), 8TB HDDs (RAID 0), USB 3.0 (PME-4U + Prostation 3.0 + M3H73P-SV), BT 4.0, 27" ACD + 84" LG 4K TV, TCx2

Last edited by h9826790; Dec 6, 2014 at 03:51 AM.
h9826790 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 6, 2014, 03:49 AM   #20
antonis
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
The failure of Control Panel launch is because of the "wrong" version of Visual Studio .NET Runtime. When changing drivers (e.g. going from bootcamp ones to the AMD's) this has to be uninstalled too, so it gets reinstalled with the new drivers. So, you may repeat this process but this time make sure you clear this one too (it's in the windows control panel available for uninstalling like the other applications).
antonis is offline   0 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > Special Interests > Mac and PC Games

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
4K Crysis 3 Gaming in BootCamp on the Late 2013 Mac Pro with 6 27 Inch Screens [4K] maclover69 Mac Pro 18 Mar 9, 2014 04:32 PM
Mac Pro Gaming MagicThief83 Mac Pro 122 Aug 28, 2013 12:47 AM
Windows: Bootcamp gaming on the retina MacBook Pro MrTheBigBadMe Mac and PC Games 45 Aug 15, 2013 06:07 PM
Gaming on MacBook Pro 2012 Bootcamp OmarSultan Windows, Linux & Others on the Mac 11 Jun 4, 2013 03:17 PM
Best PC card for bootcamp gaming on Mac Pro 1,1 Hi Im Chris lol Windows, Linux & Others on the Mac 0 Sep 21, 2012 08:11 AM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:15 AM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2015, MacRumors.com, LLC