Which is the better one for the buck? Aperture or Adobe Photoshop Elements 10 Editor

[MacPat333]

Hi guys,

I need a program that can edit pictures but I don't have thousands of Dollars for the full Adobe Kit.

I am not a student so I don't have the discount either, so the question is either Aperture or Adobe Photoshop Elements 10 Editor.

Who can tell me which one is the better one and where do I have more options to edit my pictures. Which one is easier to use and why would you recomment the one over the other?

Thanks a lot!

[rick d]

Elements 11 will give you more editing power, lettering for making cards etc. I fine Elements 11 and Lightroom work great together. Several places have offered Elements 11 for $49 and Lightroom for $79.

[snberk103]

Originally Posted by MacPat333

Hi guys,

I need a program that can edit pictures but I don't have thousands of Dollars for the full Adobe Kit.

I am not a student so I don't have the discount either, so the question is either Aperture or Adobe Photoshop Elements 10 Editor.

Who can tell me which one is the better one and where do I have more options to edit my pictures. Which one is easier to use and why would you recomment the one over the other?

Thanks a lot!

These are two different types of programs, so a direct comparison can't be made.

Aperture is a Digital Asset Manager, that also has editing features. It edits non-destructively. APE is an editor, and does so destructively. Don't be put off by that term "destructively" - it is not as bad as sounds.

Aperture is designed to help you manage your photos, to help you put your images into a database, and to help you find them again using keywords, albums, etc etc. It also edits images. The edits are not made to the actual image file, however, but recorded in its database. Therefore you can always "reset" the image back to its original state. Most people tend to shoot RAW with Aperture since it is a RAW converter - which means if you have to reset the image it reverts back to the original RAW file as it came out of the camera. That file is never altered by Aperture.

The editing tools available to Aperture are powerful, however .... you can't combine two more images. You can't eliminate elements from an image. You can't get (easily) get down to the pixel level and change pixels. The editing is mostly to do with white balance, exposure, colour controls (like hue, saturation, luminescence) etc. Sharpness, noise reduction, etc are also included. Basically, what you need to make one well composed image look its best. It also makes it easy to apply changes to one image across any number of images. It's more than batch processing. Aperture also ties in with book printing, calendar and card printing, and I believe social media sites.

Photoshop Elements (or other image editors) are not designed to organize your images. That you still need to do on your own. They also use "destructive" editing. What this means is that the default action is to replace the image you started with the image you are currently editing. It assumes you are making the image "better" and therefore you won't need the original. This becomes a problem and forget to "save as" or "save a copy" when you resize your large image down to a thumbnail, for instance. If you do remember to make copies of each version your storage needs may ballon (a problem Aperture doesn't have from multiple versions since it uses a database system.)

However, APE can combine elements from more than one image. It can eliminate elements from an image, and you can get down to the individual pixels and edit away to your heart's content.

Most advice is to use a DAM (like Aperture or Lightroom or iPhoto) in conjunction with an editor (like APE, or CS, or Pixelmator). They work well hand in hand to give you the best of both worlds.

Hope this helps.

[MacPat333]

@ snberk103

Wow,

Thank you very much for the very detailed answer.

I do have an MBA and therefore iPhoto for organising the pictures. I guess therefore that Adobe PS Elements 10 Editor would be the better choice in this case.

May I ask you a bit more as you have a pretty good knowledge about the topic. I have bought a Seagate 2TB external HDD (Backup Plus) where I will move all the finished video edit projects and the raw movie parts once done with them.

Can iPhoto be used to organise external HDD's as well or does it only work with the internal SDD in my MBA?

Futhermore, can one of them batch convert and resize pictures as on my previous Windows XP Netbook I used irfan view which worked perfectly. I am shooting hundreds of pictures every week and I just have no time to individually resize them for forums etc.?!

Thanks a lot!


@ rick d

Where can I get these programs legally for less than in the app store and is it save to download them from other sites with a guarantee it will work on the MBA?

Thanks!

[rick d]

Best Buy and Office Max have both offered discounts on Lightroom and Elements 11. Amazon did have Elements 11 for a while at $49. Elements 11 has an organizer as a separate program for use with both Elements 11 and Premiere Elements. I just choose to use Lightroom as it does well for most edits. Elements 11 lets me use layers, type styles, make note cards etc.

[snberk103]

Originally Posted by MacPat333

@ snberk103

Wow,

Thank you very much for the very detailed answer.

We photographers are nice people, I find. You are very welcome.

Originally Posted by MacPat333

I do have an MBA and therefore iPhoto for organising the pictures. I guess therefore that Adobe PS Elements 10 Editor would be the better choice in this case.

That's what I'd recommend. In iPhoto's preferences you can set which external editor to use. In this case you'd set APE10 as the editor. This then allows you to browse your photos with iPhoto, and to do the basic edits with iPhoto. When you need some extra heavy editing, you use iPhoto to call APE and it will pass its version of the image to APE, and then iPhoto will place the edited version back into its library when you are done with it in APE. This keeps the iPhoto version and the APE version next to each other in iPhoto.

Originally Posted by MacPat333

May I ask you a bit more as you have a pretty good knowledge about the topic.

Thanks. Just to warn you, I may have some deep knowledge but it is not very broad. For instance, I don't do video at all.

Originally Posted by MacPat333

I have bought a Seagate 2TB external HDD (Backup Plus) where I will move all the finished video edit projects and the raw movie parts once done with them.

Can iPhoto be used to organise external HDD's as well or does it only work with the internal SDD in my MBA?

Assuming that iPhoto manages video like still images, yes and no. You getting into referenced vs non-referenced files. Plus perhaps splitting libraries. See my note below though for more background.

Originally Posted by MacPat333

Futhermore, can one of them batch convert and resize pictures as on my previous Windows XP Netbook I used irfan view which worked perfectly. I am shooting hundreds of pictures every week and I just have no time to individually resize them for forums etc.?!

I don't know irfan, but I believe so. Select all the images you want to Export at a particular setting, and choose "Export". You will see a dialogue with all sorts choices. I find Smart Albums a very useful tool, or in this case it may be just a temporary album you need.

More iPhoto Background:
Like other DAMs, iPhoto uses a database along with the image files. When you "Import" an image iPhoto is creating a database record for that image, at a minimum. It also - by default - wants to move that image into its Library. This Library is hidden from you, the user, because if you move or alter images in the iPhoto library directly (not through iPhoto) you are starting to corrupt the database. Allowing iPhoto to move the images into its library is what I recommend. You can, in a worst case situation retrieve the photos if needed.

The database records where the photo is, plus everything you have done to the photo with iPhoto. All of the editing you do is recorded in the database record, and not applied to the original (Master) image. You can use iPhoto to make as many virtual copies as you want, without taking up more storage space. For instance a colour and B&W version. Or a square and landscape version. Or combinations of these. In each case iPhoto merely makes a note in the database. The "new" image is not created until you "Export". At that point the edits are read from the database, and a new image is created and put somewhere outside of the iPhoto library.

That is why it is so important to not muck about with the images in the library directly (not using iPhoto.) If you muck about, iPhoto may lose track of the image entirely. Or the recorded edits may not work on the altered photo, etc etc.

However, you can bypass iPhotos default action of moving images into its Library by using "referenced" images. In this case the photos live in one folder, but the database lives in another folder or even another drive. However, if you muck about with the images directly.......

If you want multiple iPhoto Libraries you can do that too. IIRC, you invoke these by using the option key when you start iPhoto and you can switch, create, etc Libraries. To answer your question about the external this may be the way to go. One Library on the MBA, and the other on the external HDD.

Please make back ups. This may mean yet another external HDD. People get very little sympathy on these threads for not having a backup when their HDDs crash. I have an internal Time Machine disk for user error, an external nightly cloned backup for hardware errors, and another external HDD stored off-site for really big errors...

Hope this isn't too much all at once.

I have written a fair bit in the Digital Photo forum on Lightroom, Aperture, iPhoto etc... you may want to search out those threads using the advanced search features, and save me some typing... plus you can read some other opinions on best practices. Note though .... this thread seems to be in Design and Graphics, and most of these discussions are in the Digital Photography forum.

If you want to move this to the other forum (where the photographers hang out) I believe you can use the Report Button (the little exclamation mark icon on the left side) to get a Moderator's attention and to make the request. I think that's how it works.

[MacPat333]

Thanks a lot, I will have to read it a few times and check the search for the threads you mentioned!

Great help!

p.s.: I actually started with Photography too and have expanded into videography. Gave my EOS 400D to my father in law and got for the time being a Canon G1X.

Thanks once more!

[chrono1081]

My vote goes for Pixelmator + Lightroom or Aperture.

[rick d]

Don't forget most programs will let you try them for 30 days.
Try and see what works best for you.

[TweakOnline]

I'd prefer Aperture because of the library function.
Although, it has an ugly grey layout which I absolutely don't like.

I've never tried Adobe Photoshop Elements (I have Photoshop CS6), but you could download a trail version at the Adobe website.

[Ashley0609]

Sorry to interupt, but I've just started down the iPhoto and elements 11 route on a new quad core mini, and iPhoto keeps on crashing. Is it something to do with the format of the pictures after they're edited? It's getting to be extremely frustrating, as once it reopens either deleted photos are restored, or the order of Events are all mixed up!

Thanks in advance for your help

[snberk103]

Originally Posted by Ashley0609

Sorry to interupt, but I've just started down the iPhoto and elements 11 route on a new quad core mini, and iPhoto keeps on crashing. Is it something to do with the format of the pictures after they're edited? It's getting to be extremely frustrating, as once it reopens either deleted photos are restored, or the order of Events are all mixed up!

Thanks in advance for your help

If your system is still under AppleCare, you best bet is to call Apple. They have the experience and the tools to diagnose your problem. But no... the format of the picture should not be making iPhoto crash. Something is broken with the installation.

Good Luck

[MadDawg2020]

Unless you have the top of the line Mac Pro or an iMac with an i7 processor and top shelf graphics cards STAY AWAY from Aperture!

It will grind your entire system to a slow crawl doing anything beyond just looking at a single image! It is a huge resource pig!

Beyond that it has very limited flexibility in storing and organizing your photos, it locks all your images in to a proprietary library format that no other program can recognize! And be prepared to take long breaks every time you import a file so it has time to render everything. (and then wait longer each time you make edits or try to export!)

And like most Apple 'pro' apps, it works great as long as you organize your work flow exactly how Apple wants you to. Try to move your images to another disk or have your own organizing system and you will fight like Ahab and the whale!

If you don't have a large library, then iPhoto (free and already on your machine) is okay for light work.

Adobe Elements is a decent but basic image editing application a good companion to iPhoto.

Or step up to Adobe Lightroom for a decent set of editing tools combined with a full featured organizing/ program that works with YOUR workflow.

----------

Originally Posted by rick d

Don't forget most programs will let you try them for 30 days.
Try and see what works best for you.

NOT apple programs!
It took a near riot from the Final Cut users to finally force Apple to allow a trial of Final Cut Pro, and try finding it!
ALL of Adobe's software has free 30 day trials on their website

[sim667]

Adobe CS2 suite is going for free at the moment (all legit), you just have to register with adobe

[snberk103]

Originally Posted by MadDawg2020

Unless you have the top of the line Mac Pro or an iMac with an i7 processor and top shelf graphics cards STAY AWAY from Aperture!

I disagree. On those rare occasions when I use Aperture on my 2008 MBP, which was not "top shelf" even it 2008 - it runs fine.

Originally Posted by MadDawg2020

...
Beyond that it has very limited flexibility in storing and organizing your photos, it locks all your images in to a proprietary library format that no other program can recognize!

Also disagree with this. Any Digital Asset Manager (iPhoto, Aperture, Lightroom, and now Capture One v7) use a database in conjunction with the original images. The original images are never altered - and are not locked away. All DAMs restrict what you can do with your image files - if you muck about with your images outside of the DAM you corrupt the database. Apple simply make is more difficult for amateurs to muck about with the original files by hiding them (by default). They are still there, and can be accessed in their original form. Lightroom and Capture One don't tend to hide the files since they are aimed at a more experienced user. But - they also restrict what you do with the files in the sense that if you muck about with the image files outside of the application the application will tell you that it can't find the image you want to work on. It is the nature of a DAM.

Originally Posted by MadDawg2020

...
And like most Apple 'pro' apps, it works great as long as you organize your work flow exactly how Apple wants you to. Try to move your images to another disk or have your own organizing system and you will fight like Ahab and the whale!

Actually, it is the nature of all DAMs, made by Apple, Adobe, and PhaseOne. It is just that Apple's products tend to be used by more entry level photographers who have not yet adjusted to the complexities of a built in database.

Originally Posted by MadDawg2020

...iPhoto (free and already on your machine) is okay for light work.

Adobe Elements is a decent but basic image editing application a good companion to iPhoto.

This I agree with.

Originally Posted by MadDawg2020

Or step up to Adobe Lightroom for a decent set of editing tools combined with a full featured organizing/ program that works with YOUR workflow....

Although I primarily use Lightroom, the most common complaint from people is that it does not have a flexible workflow. Unlike Aperture, Lightroom forces you work in discrete modules - while Aperture is more free-form for the workflow and will adjust to your workflow. I use Lightroom, despite having to adjust my workflow, because I like the tools better. But that is just personal choice.

Originally Posted by sim667

Adobe CS2 suite is going for free at the moment (all legit), you just have to register with adobe

This isn't quite correct - Adobe has issued a clarification about who is eligible ... and it works only on a PPC machine.

[Miguel Cunha]

Adobe Photoshop Elements by far!
I don't consider Aperture a real editor at all.

[fig]

Have you looked at Pixelmator? Ridiculous bang for the buck.

[snberk103]

Originally Posted by Miguel Cunha

...
I don't consider Aperture a real editor at all.

That's because Aperture isn't an editor... it's Digital Asset Manager and RAW convertor that also does some editing. The best recommendation is to use something like Aperture (or iPhoto, Lightroom) in conjunction with an editor like Photoshop Elements (or the full version of Ps, or Pixelmator, etc).

Aperture is much better at applying basic adjustments over masses of images than an editor though. So it's good to know which application to use for what.

[cntwtfrmynwmbp]

Originally Posted by fig

Have you looked at Pixelmator? Ridiculous bang for the buck.

This one!

[kevinfulton.ca]

Originally Posted by MacPat333

Hi guys,

I need a program that can edit pictures but I don't have thousands of Dollars for the full Adobe Kit.

I am not a student so I don't have the discount either, so the question is either Aperture or Adobe Photoshop Elements 10 Editor.

Who can tell me which one is the better one and where do I have more options to edit my pictures. Which one is easier to use and why would you recomment the one over the other?

Thanks a lot!

As others have already mentioned, these are two different programs. I'd suggest getting both or, as an alternative to PS Elements, getting Pixelmator. It's less expensive and a bit more powerful then PS Elements.

[Miguel Cunha]

Originally Posted by snberk103

That's because Aperture isn't an editor... it's Digital Asset Manager and RAW convertor that also does some editing. The best recommendation is to use something like Aperture (or iPhoto, Lightroom) in conjunction with an editor like Photoshop Elements (or the full version of Ps, or Pixelmator, etc).

Aperture is much better at applying basic adjustments over masses of images than an editor though. So it's good to know which application to use for what.

That's exactly my point!

[snberk103]

Originally Posted by Miguel Cunha

That's exactly my point!

Ah, yes... sorry about that... I read your comment a bit differently than you had intended. Apologies.

[thekev]

Originally Posted by sim667

Adobe CS2 suite is going for free at the moment (all legit), you just have to register with adobe

Adobe corrected themselves on that. It won't work on any newer version of OSX anyway. It was a PowerPC app which runs through Rosetta. You'd have to use the Windows version. Good luck getting that to work through WINE. It was also just intended to be for users with valid licenses of the old one. They no longer require activation.

[Miguel Cunha]

Originally Posted by snberk103

Ah, yes... sorry about that... I read your comment a bit differently than you had intended. Apologies.

Don't worry. No offense taken.
That's what forums are for, discussing and clarifying ideas.

[snberk103]

Originally Posted by Miguel Cunha

Don't worry. No offense taken.
That's what forums are for, discussing and clarifying ideas.

Thanks. Always lots to learn 'round here.