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Old Dec 17, 2012, 05:02 PM   #26
Don't panic
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the guy was dum for sure, but tit doesn't seem to me the punishment is commensurate to the crime.

if it was my daughter i would (obviously) not be happy and would likely demand some sort of punishment, but nothing this harsh, especially the sex offender registry.

now, if it was rape it would be appropriate, but i don't think it was the case, not even if you consider the 'statutory' situation.

the laws should be more flexible and somehow include the age difference in the way they are written and in the associated punishment.
an 19-16 relationship is not the same as a 40-16, even if bot the older individuals are both 'adults' and laws should recognize that
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 05:04 PM   #27
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I don't know why you think this is a religious issue. The laws are there to protect power plays between adults and children that may look up to them. Although yes kids seem more grown up these days, what would you say the cut off is. What if the girl was 13? 12? 11? Is it still ok? Where do you draw the line?

I won't say the laws are perfect but what if he was about to turn 19 and she had just turned 14?
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 05:14 PM   #28
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His jail time was well deserved in my opinion
Putting a teenager into jail is not the solution. You want to teach them a lesson, not create a monster. At that age, kids (and they are kids) are still learning and coping and if you deprive them from that important time of transitioning to a young adult and getting the right education, you end up with troubled youth that has no direction in life and will break the law in an instant.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 05:15 PM   #29
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Registering as a sex offender, OTOH, I think is inappropriate in this case. While his relationship with this girl is clearly out of bounds and illegal, I don't think he's the type to go after just any teenage girl; I think his attraction is fixated solely on her. As such, there's no reason to warn the world that he might try to prey on every single child out there.
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if it was my daughter i would (obviously) not be happy and would likely demand some sort of punishment, but nothing this harsh, especially the sex offender registry.
The guy in the article is now off the registry. From the story:

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Thornsberry, newly out of prison, had a chance to petition the court to remove his name from the sex-offender registry, due to a new law spurred on by parent activists. In order to be freed from the registry, he needed to petition two judges. The first judge had ruled against him, so Lester was called upon to appear before the second judge.

Thornsberry is now off the sex-offender registry. But he remains a convicted felon for life, according to his attorney, Cheryl Carpenter. She has freed 20 youth offenders from the sex-offender registry in Michigan; she is among those who think the laws need to change.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 05:16 PM   #30
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Stupidity is not an excuse to break the law.

He could have gotten a bajillion handjobs or Bravo Juliets and he would not have gone to prison.

This law isn't just about preventing molesters it's about preventing teenage mothers and the devastation that that can cause.

I don't know any father that thinks "Yeah! I want my baby girl ********** at 14."

All he had to do was wait until the legal consent age of 16. He didn't and went to Prison. I bet he got a LOT of yanking done in Prison. Should have practiced that before and he would have kept his freedom.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 05:18 PM   #31
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sorry but i dont see any reason why an 18 year old MAN should be dating a 14 year old

4 years is a big gap at that age. She is just a child

His jail time was well deserved in my opinion
Today's high schoolers aren't the same as they were when you and I were in HS, Duke. If I took you on a tour of the HS in my area, you'd be amazed how many freshmen look and act waaaay older. It doesn't help that teens nowadays dress inappropriately, either.

NOTE: I'm not justifying anything....
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 05:21 PM   #32
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I don't know why you think this is a religious issue. The laws are there to protect power plays between adults and children that may look up to them. Although yes kids seem more grown up these days, what would you say the cut off is. What if the girl was 13? 12? 11? Is it still ok? Where do you draw the line?

I won't say the laws are perfect but what if he was about to turn 19 and she had just turned 14?
They were in high school together. Likely he just turned 18.

To put it in perspective, my mom and dad are four years apart. They started dating in highschool. When mom was a freshman, and dad a senior. They got married when mom was 19 and dad 23. Now they're 58 and 62.

It's actually a fairly common thing. I mean hey. I dated a 15 year old when I was 17. We were about 2 and a 1/2 years apart age wise, and I turned 18 nearly half a year before she turned 16. Would you consider me a pedophile? Should I have had the book thrown at me for statutory rape?

Yes. There is a point when things go from stretching the issue a little bit to flat out wrong. But let's let common sense decide when that point is reached, rather than ruining some idiot teenager's life because what they did was against the strictest interpretation of the letter of the law.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 05:25 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by nuckinfutz View Post
Stupidity is not an excuse to break the law.

He could have gotten a bajillion handjobs or Bravo Juliets and he would not have gone to prison.

This law isn't just about preventing molesters it's about preventing teenage mothers and the devastation that that can cause.

I don't know any father that thinks "Yeah! I want my baby girl ********** at 14."

All he had to do was wait until the legal consent age of 16. He didn't and went to Prison. I bet he got a LOT of yanking done in Prison. Should have practiced that before and he would have kept his freedom.
i don't disagree, but wasn't part of the harshness of the sentence due to the fact he was 18 (as opposed to 17, for example)? i might be wrong as these things are different in different places, but if that is the case, there goes half of your argument.

if the laws included some mechanism to account for age gaps, then it would be fairer, IMO.

as a dad with two pre-teens kids, these are difficult waters to navigate.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 05:34 PM   #34
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They were in high school together. Likely he just turned 18.

To put it in perspective, my mom and dad are four years apart. They started dating in highschool. When mom was a freshman, and dad a senior. They got married when mom was 19 and dad 23. Now they're 58 and 62.

It's actually a fairly common thing. I mean hey. I dated a 15 year old when I was 17. We were about 2 and a 1/2 years apart age wise, and I turned 18 nearly half a year before she turned 16. Would you consider me a pedophile? Should I have had the book thrown at me for statutory rape?

Yes. There is a point when things go from stretching the issue a little bit to flat out wrong. But let's let common sense decide when that point is reached, rather than ruining some idiot teenager's life because what they did was against the strictest interpretation of the letter of the law.
Dating doesn't meaning having to have sex, sure kids do it but really, I think if you know the law, got busted once then maybe you should rethink your strategy. Also, it sounds like the girl's father turned him in. If you think parents aren't cool with you having sex with their underage daughter, maybe you should be careful.

I'm not agreeing that the law is imperfect, but I think you have to draw a line somewhere.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 05:36 PM   #35
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Looks to me like you've contradicted yourself here.
I think it is inappropriate, but that is my job to do something about as a parent. Not something to send the guy to jail and put him on the sex offenders list though.

He went to jail for home invasion and destruction of property and that was warranted.


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Jail time is not at all inappropriate here. He broke the law. He went to jail and got probation. He broke the same law again. He went back to jail. That's pretty much how it's supposed to work, and I don't oppose it.
Would you be saying the same if in a state that gay marriage is illegal sent gay couples to jail for being together? They broke the law. They deserved it. Not that the law is wrong and needs changing?

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Lock him up and throw away the key

Is the death penalty not an option here?
Please tell me you're being sarcastic.....

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Originally Posted by nuckinfutz View Post
Stupidity is not an excuse to break the law.

He could have gotten a bajillion handjobs or Bravo Juliets and he would not have gone to prison.

This law isn't just about preventing molesters it's about preventing teenage mothers and the devastation that that can cause.

I don't know any father that thinks "Yeah! I want my baby girl ********** at 14."

All he had to do was wait until the legal consent age of 16. He didn't and went to Prison. I bet he got a LOT of yanking done in Prison. Should have practiced that before and he would have kept his freedom.
Sending a guy to jail and label him as a sex offender is not a way to prevent teenage pregnancy. That's as screwed up as abstinence only education......

And what prevents two 14 year olds from having sex and the girl getting pregnant?
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 05:40 PM   #36
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as a dad with two pre-teens kids, these are difficult waters to navigate.
Truer words have not been written. I think the important part is for our boys to realize that there are gray areas to laws and sometimes well meaning people get caught in the undertow.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 06:51 PM   #37
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Dating doesn't meaning having to have sex, sure kids do it but really, I think if you know the law, got busted once then maybe you should rethink your strategy. Also, it sounds like the girl's father turned him in. If you think parents aren't cool with you having sex with their underage daughter, maybe you should be careful.
I can't deny that the kid was a complete and total moron. Who wasn't at that age, when hormones and angst are half the reason why you do anything at all?

I'm not saying what he did was right. The age thing itself is about as borderline as I'm willing to go on the issue. 14 year olds shouldn't be doing anything close to having sex, and 18 year olds should know better than to try it with a 14 year old, let alone go on a freak-out home invasion smash up spree over it.

But think about it. How many of us here did something incredibly stupid between the ages of 13-19? How many of us did it over what you thought at the time was "true love"? How many of us regularly listened to our moms and dads during that timespan?

Okay. Now that most of us here are in our late 20's - early 30's, how many of us are still paying for that stupid thing they did when they were teenagers?

This kid? When he's our age, he'll still be paying for it. He'll likely still be paying for when he's in his 40's. All because he thought he was in love with another idiot highschooler.

Yeah, he should've been punished for what he did. Just not to the extent we're seeing here.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 07:03 PM   #38
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I can't deny that the kid was a complete and total moron. Who wasn't at that age, when hormones and angst are half the reason why you do anything at all?

I'm not saying what he did was right. The age thing itself is about as borderline as I'm willing to go on the issue. 14 year olds shouldn't be doing anything close to having sex, and 18 year olds should know better than to try it with a 14 year old, let alone go on a freak-out home invasion smash up spree over it.

But think about it. How many of us here did something incredibly stupid between the ages of 13-19? How many of us did it over what you thought at the time was "true love"? How many of us regularly listened to our moms and dads during that timespan?

Okay. Now that most of us here are in our late 20's - early 30's, how many of us are still paying for that stupid thing they did when they were teenagers?

This kid? When he's our age, he'll still be paying for it. He'll likely still be paying for when he's in his 40's. All because he thought he was in love with another idiot highschooler.

Yeah, he should've been punished for what he did. Just not to the extent we're seeing here.
I don't disagree with you. All I wanted to say is the statutory rape laws are in place for a reason. I'm all for finding alternative ways to enforce them including plenty of community service for instances such as this but this is on the border of age difference that makes me nervous where you might want to have harsher punishment but again, I'm not sure if jail time is the right answer.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 07:19 PM   #39
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I don't disagree with you. All I wanted to say is the statutory rape laws are in place for a reason. I'm all for finding alternative ways to enforce them including plenty of community service for instances such as this but this is on the border of age difference that makes me nervous where you might want to have harsher punishment but again, I'm not sure if jail time is the right answer.
You're right. It's there on the cusp where a year's difference either way for both of them would change my opinion on the matter entirely. A 19 year old going out with a 13 year old? He's a graduate, and she's in middle school. There's no way I'd condone that. But a 15 year old going out with a 17 year old? They're in the same school. Probably share some of the same classes. That's only slightly different than the situation we have now.

Statutory rape laws are very much in place for a reason. They're there to protect children from sexual predators. But it should be applied with a little common sense. If we followed the spirit of the law, we'd see that, ignoring the magic line between 17 and 18, what we've got is basically kids dating other kids. Yeah, one's a little too young, but they're basically in the same age group. If no one interfered, they might've been married and lived a long, happy life together. When she's 21 and he's 25, no one would care less. But since we've decided to follow the letter of the law here, we've labelled him a rapist, and screwed him over for life.

It's not an easy subject to approach, I know that much. All I can say is the law went too far in my opinion.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 07:25 PM   #40
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And when a 50yr old man has sex with a 18yr old women?

They should give at least a 2 year lead way for those 18 and 19 yrs old.

In this situation the 18yr old deserves jail time, but registered as a sex offender is questionable.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 07:26 PM   #41
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The guy in the article is now off the registry. From the story:
Well thats good but even having him on the felony list for life really negatively affects him. It will make it so much harder to get a job and will likely cause him to require government assistance. While what he did is wrong what having that on his record is much more wrong and will likely have a negative affect on society.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 07:53 PM   #42
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And when a 50yr old man has sex with a 18yr old women?
The Standard Creepiness Rule applies:



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They should give at least a 2 year lead way for those 18 and 19 yrs old.
If that's how they want the law to be, then it should be rewritten that way. A person reading the law beforehand should be able to determine whether what they're about to do is within the bounds of the law or not. And a person was previously arrested under the law ought to be paying particular attention to its conditions.

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In this situation the 18yr old deserves jail time, but registered as a sex offender is questionable.
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...5&postcount=29
"The guy in the article is now off the registry."
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 08:01 PM   #43
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Well thats good but even having him on the felony list for life really negatively affects him. It will make it so much harder to get a job and will likely cause him to require government assistance. While what he did is wrong what having that on his record is much more wrong and will likely have a negative affect on society.
Not picking on you friend, but just pointing out that your post is more proof that some people don't read the article that the OP references so they can discuss the issue from an informed position. Instead they just "shoot from the hip" with what they think they know about a subject. Yes, a felony record can make the job application processes more difficult, but that is not always the case. It is hardly a guarantee that someone will have to go on government assistance. And, again the young man knew the risks and the consequences when he decided to violate his probation to pursue the relationship.

From the article:

Quote:
Today, Thornsberry is launching his own landscaping business, and also applying at Oakland Community College for a business degree. His plan: to start a music venue where bands can play and artists can display their work.

ďIíve already lost so much time,Ē he says. ďIím 26. If that doesnít give you the gas to get going, I donít know what does."
Sounds pretty motivated to me. It's refreshing to see people learn from their poor decisions and make efforts to do better in the future.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 08:01 PM   #44
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They are put in the same school and it's "not expected" that kids will date? Or, heaven forbid, have sex? I think we need two things here: 1) common sense (yes, I know that's a very rare commodity; and 2) a historical perspective (it wasn't until the late 1920s that the last state (Delaware) raised its age of consent to 12 (from 7); the nonsense of "under-18" is a relic of the post-WW2 1950s).
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 08:10 PM   #45
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Jail time may be a bit harsh (think about FIVE YEARS for an 18-year-old) but having sex with a 14-year-old girl is pretty awful. That's what a senior in high school (maybe even at college?) and an 8th grader? Bleh.

Also, always obey the half-plus-seven rule. Divide your age by 2, then add 7. That's the youngest you can date.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 08:12 PM   #46
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Jail time may be a bit harsh (think about FIVE YEARS for an 18-year-old) but having sex with a 14-year-old girl is pretty awful. That's what a senior in high school (maybe even at college?) and an 8th grader? Bleh.

Also, always obey the half-plus-seven rule. Divide your age by 2, then add 7. That's the youngest you can date.
The guy was a senior and the girl was a freshman.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 08:15 PM   #47
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The guy was a senior and the girl was a freshman.
That was always really weird in my high school. Oh God, I wonder how many of those couples did it...
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 08:22 PM   #48
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That was always really weird in my high school. Oh God, I wonder how many of those couples did it...
Really? There was never girl chatter about going out with a senior?
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 08:22 PM   #49
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Would you be saying the same if in a state that gay marriage is illegal sent gay couples to jail for being together? They broke the law. They deserved it. Not that the law is wrong and needs changing?
If they willingly broke the law, got probation, then willingly broke the same law again, then yes. Judges don't get to change the laws.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 08:29 PM   #50
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If they willingly broke the law, got probation, then willingly broke the same law again, then yes. Judges don't get to change the laws.
That's true, but wouldn't you advocate a change in the law?
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