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Old Jan 2, 2013, 01:01 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by quagmire View Post
Get him for harassment, stalking, restraining order, etc. But, I don't believe in automatic jail time, labeled a rapist, and put on the sex offenders list.

What kind of education? Would it be abstinence only? You hit the nail on the head with the supervision part.
If she is beneath the age of consent, and the parent says no, then he has sexual relations, he is a rapist. He did not have consent. (Please feel free to switch the he and she or use she/she he/he, the choice is yours.)

Education.
Let me tell you about me. After the ex wife had our third child, I took care of things. Simple, quick, easy and painless. I am an advocate of the male manning up and taking care business. You wouldn't believe the number of 40 plus males that won't get that done because they believe that they won't ejaculate afterwards. It's sad. So yes, we need to desperately fix that that. Both boys and girls need to know both how their parts work, and the parts of the opposite sex work. They need to know how babies are made (scientifically). The need to understand the psychological aspects of it, complications that could be involved (diseases) and how to reduce those risks (to yes, include abstinence). Let us also included "So Your Pregnant, Now What ?" training. Let's hit the whole nine yards.

On a side note, I would also like to see "Let's not have Sex with *******s" training, but that might just encourage it.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 01:18 PM   #152
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I wonder if they are together now..
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 02:49 PM   #153
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Old Nov 17, 2014, 12:19 PM   #154
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Interesting report this weekend on PBS, in essence:

Criminal Law Says Minors Can't Consent, But Some Civil Courts Disagree.

Quote:
"They said, 'We're not negligent here, we didn't know about this,'" Foshay says. And they also said that the 14-year-old girl was at fault because she consented to the sex.
When a minor (in this case 14 years old) takes action to decieve those around her so she can engage in sex, should the school district be held responsible? I've always thought the School District was responsible for the action of its teachers, but if we use the Catholic Chuch as a yard stick who not only tried to avoid responsibility but tied to hide it.

What is interesting is if this indicates a shift in morals or a shift towards the sheltering of entities like a school district (a form of corporatism) from responsibility?
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Old Nov 18, 2014, 06:04 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by dukebound85 View Post
sorry but i dont see any reason why an 18 year old MAN should be dating a 14 year old

4 years is a big gap at that age. She is just a child

His jail time was well deserved in my opinion
Well its proportionate isn't it...... an 18 year old dating a fourteen year old is unnacceptable, but a 24 year old dating a 20 year old is totally fine.

If the girl was under the age of consent, but gave consent, thats not ok..... The boy should know better, at the end of the day legality of age of consent doesn't vary from person to person, its a blanket law.

If its the case of a mature 14 year old, dating an immature 18 year old then in their teenage wisdom, they probably though it was appropriate. In which case jail time isn't really appropriate.

If its the case of an 18 year old abusing and taking advantage of a 14 year old, then maybe jailtime would be appropriate.
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Old Nov 22, 2014, 11:20 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by quagmire View Post
The law needs to be changed. The sex offender list was meant to protect underage kids from pervs that are way over age. Not to prevent a senior in HS dating a freshman.
Senior who is 18? Was that person a slow learner? I graduated just after turn 17! Half the kids in my class were 17.
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Old Nov 22, 2014, 11:27 AM   #157
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Senior who is 18? Was that person a slow learner? I graduated just after turn 17! Half the kids in my class were 17.
I didn't fail any grades. I was 18-years-old when I graduated high school. Typically, the cutoff is 5-years-old by October 1st. My daughter has a birthday of September 23rd, making her one of the oldest in her class. She'll be 18 when she graduates.
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Old Nov 22, 2014, 11:39 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
I didn't fail any grades. I was 18-years-old when I graduated high school. Typically, the cutoff is 5-years-old by October 1st. My daughter has a birthday of September 23rd, making her one of the oldest in her class. She'll be 18 when she graduates.
Wow. I was 4 when I started school since my birthday is in May and in NYS (at that time) was you just need to rurn 5 during the school year and it ended in mid June. Plus is help after that truck hit my bike and I had tutors for a little over a year I skipped 4 grade.

The only thing that really sucked was just before my 18 birthday NYS moved the drinking age to 19, then one later to 21. I missed everything by one year!
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Old Nov 22, 2014, 11:41 AM   #159
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Wow. I was 4 when I started school since my birthday is in May and in NYS (at that time) was you just need to rurn 5 during the school year and it ended in mid June. Plus is help after that truck hit my bike and I had tutors for a little over a year I skipped 4 grade.

The only thing that really sucked was just before my 18 birthday NYS moved the drinking age to 19, then one later to 21. I missed everything by one year!
Each state has different rules about this.
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Old Nov 22, 2014, 03:21 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by satcomer View Post
Senior who is 18? Was that person a slow learner? I graduated just after turn 17! Half the kids in my class were 17.
All depends on cut-off dates. In my area, it was September 1, and my bday is only days after that. So I was 18 the entirety of my senior year, while some were 17 when we graduated. I never repeated a grade and went to one of the top private schools in my state, so I doubt there was much "slow learning" going on.
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Old Nov 22, 2014, 04:04 PM   #161
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IMO ... There should be a 3 year buffer where you can still get in trouble, but only as probation, fines, and not have to be a registered sex offender.

3 year buffer.

18 years of age .....
Below 15 is a sex offence
15 and above is probation & fine

19 years of age .....
Below 16 is a sex offence
16 and above is probation & fine

20 years of age .....
Below 17 is a sex offence
17 is probation & fine

21 years of age ......
Below legal age of 18 is a sex offence.
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Old Nov 22, 2014, 04:08 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by LIVEFRMNYC View Post
IMO ... There should be a 3 year buffer where you can still get in trouble, but only as probation, fines, and not have to be a registered sex offender.

3 year buffer.

18 years of age .....
Below 15 is a sex offence
15 and above is probation & fine

19 years of age .....
Below 16 is a sex offence
16 and above is probation & fine

20 years of age .....
Below 17 is a sex offence
17 is probation & fine

21 years of age ......
Below legal age of 18 is a sex offence.
Each state has different laws on this. But Georgia has something similar to what you are talking about. The age of consent is 16. Mess with a fifteen year old and it's statutory rape. However, if the victim is 14 or 15 and there is no more than a three year difference in age, it's a misdemeanor. Basically, they aren't saying it's okay to go for it, but they aren't going to incarcerate a high schooler for decades because his girlfriend's birthday hadn't come around.
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Old Nov 22, 2014, 04:27 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
Each state has different laws on this. But Georgia has something similar to what you are talking about. The age of consent is 16. Mess with a fifteen year old and it's statutory rape. However, if the victim is 14 or 15 and there is no more than a three year difference in age, it's a misdemeanor. Basically, they aren't saying it's okay to go for it, but they aren't going to incarcerate a high schooler for decades because his girlfriend's birthday hadn't come around.
Sweden has a law that's a bit like that. Age of consent is 15. The biggest difference that's been up in court and ruled that is was OK was a 24-year old and a 14-year old.
Of course Sweden also has a different view on things like sex than the US. But I think this law in Sweden works great.
The law makes it so the courts can rule very freely in this area, taking into consideration if the two people are a couple and other things that might factor in to why they had sex.

EDIT, I mixed the numbers. It was 17 and 14, nothing else!!!

Last edited by Anitramane; Nov 22, 2014 at 05:12 PM.
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Old Nov 22, 2014, 04:32 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by Anitramane View Post
Sweden has a law that's a bit like that. Age of consent is 15. The biggest difference that's been up in court and ruled that is was OK was a 24-year old and a 14-year old.
Of course Sweden also has a different view on things like sex than the US. But I think this law in Sweden works great.
The law makes it so the courts can rule very freely in this area, taking into consideration if the two people are a couple and other things that might factor in to why they had sex.
24 and 14 is pretty crazy from an American point of view. How do parents in Sweden feel about that?
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Old Nov 22, 2014, 04:48 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by satcomer View Post
Senior who is 18? Was that person a slow learner? I graduated just after turn 17! Half the kids in my class were 17.
I turned 18 during my senior year, although I took a few summer courses and graduated a semester early, making my actual date of graduation soon after I turned 18. I was never held back and entered kindergarten at 5, which wasn't atypical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LIVEFRMNYC View Post
24 and 14 is pretty crazy from an American point of view. How do parents in Sweden feel about that?
That seems weird to me. At 24 I couldn't imagine being attracted to a teenager.
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Old Nov 22, 2014, 04:57 PM   #166
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When I was a young, dumb lieutenant on my first Netherlands posting. I met an attractive girl in a bar. In the USA, if we meet them in a bar with a drink in their hand, we're assuming they are 21. Never assume anything! She was 16. My Dutch friends were rolling laughing their butts off as I started tap dancing and making up excuses to get out of there. I was only 22 or 23 but I felt like a total pervert for even thinking about it.

Fast forward a bunch of years... I was 35 when I married my first wife, who was 23. It's all relative.
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Old Nov 22, 2014, 05:11 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by LIVEFRMNYC View Post
24 and 14 is pretty crazy from an American point of view. How do parents in Sweden feel about that?
I think parents don't feel much since sweden is very liberal when it comes to sex

I ****ed up the numbers though, the correct ones are 17 and 14. Sorry.

I'll translate some of the Swedish law because I find it very good and reasonable.

§ 4 A person who has sexual intercourse with a child under fifteen years of age or with such a child carries a sexual act which, considering the seriousness of the violation is comparable to sexual intercourse, is convicted of child rape to imprisonment for not less than two nor more than six years.

5 § If an offense referred to in § 4 first or second paragraph with regard to the circumstances of the crime considered less serious, shall be sentenced for sexual exploitation of children to imprisonment not exceeding four years.

Comments to § 5

"Caution is needed in that application when there is little age difference between two people. If one is 16 years old and the other 14 years, there is reason to believe that there is no crime but not to be regarded as victims, the person shall be deemed to be sufficiently mature. With mature referred to the victim, in view of its development and other circumstances, had the means to assess and deal with the situation. See also § 14."

14 § A person who has committed an offense under § 5 and § 6, first paragraph against a child under fifteen years or according to § 8 first paragraph or § 10, first paragraph, should not be penalized if it is clear that the offense did not involve any abuse the child with respect to the slight difference in age and development between the person who committed the offense and the child as well as other circumstances.

Comments on § 14

"An offense can lead to discharge if the output lead to unreasonable results where the discharge is judged on a case by case basis. This provision is intended to be applied with great caution and after a careful assessment of the individual case. In NJA 2007 p. 201 were a 17 year old boy had sex with a girl who was 14 years and seven months old, ie, objectively sexual exploitation of children according to § 5. This was not considered a criminal offense when it was clear that no abuse occurred at the girl. The girl was near the age for sexual self-determination and the boy was only slightly older and had come slightly further in their maturation. Although the parties' relationship to each other and the circumstances under which the sexual act is undertaken is judged where the typical example is a couple of minor age difference that has a close and good relationship with each other and participate in a mutual and completely voluntary sexual act."

So it takes in other variables like: Whats the two peoples relations like, how much does their age differ, how developed is the child, and many other things.
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Old Nov 22, 2014, 05:14 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by Anitramane View Post
I think parents don't feel much since sweden is very liberal when it comes to sex.

I ****ed up the numbers though, the correct ones are 17 and 14. Sorry.

Oh, that's way more understandable.

24 and 14 had me believing the contrast in culture to be extreme.
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Old Nov 22, 2014, 06:47 PM   #169
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i dated a 16 year old when i was 19. her parents were fine with it, as were mine. i didnt bang her but we did our share of messing around.

it would be completely ****ed up if i had been labeled a sex offender for life and ended up in jail for being a teenager fooling around with another teenager. today im a 30 year old successful bilingual individual with a great education, a great job, and a 29 year old wife.

God forbid if I had been 18 and she 17, we both couldve been in the same grade and i couldve been labeled a pedo sex offender with a ruined life and wasted tax dollars to pay for it al.

the law is ****ing stupid, end of story.
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Old Nov 22, 2014, 06:51 PM   #170
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i dated a 16 year old when i was 19. her parents were fine with it, as were mine. i didnt bang her but we did our share of messing around.

it would be completely ****ed up if i had been labeled a sex offender for life and ended up in jail for being a teenager fooling around with another teenager.

God forbid if I had been 18 and she 17, we both couldve been in the same grade and i couldve been labeled a pedo sex offender with a ruined life and wasted tax dollars to pay for it al.

the law is ****ing stupid, end of story.

From the years 16 and 17, I could have put several females in jail.
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Old Nov 23, 2014, 09:14 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
When I was a young, dumb lieutenant on my first Netherlands posting. I met an attractive girl in a bar. In the USA, if we meet them in a bar with a drink in their hand, we're assuming they are 21. Never assume anything! She was 16. My Dutch friends were rolling laughing their butts off as I started tap dancing and making up excuses to get out of there. I was only 22 or 23 but I felt like a total pervert for even thinking about it.

Fast forward a bunch of years... I was 35 when I married my first wife, who was 23. It's all relative.
Society decides the advent of adulthood. A long time ago, nature decided it was the onset of puberty and I believe this used to be civilization's standard too.
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Old Nov 23, 2014, 09:33 AM   #172
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Society decides the advent of adulthood. A long time ago, nature decided it was the onset of puberty and I believe this used to be civilization's standard too.
That would be the sane way to go. Americans have sex issues so they are trying to punish people.

Reading threads like these remind me about the good sides of europe.
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Old Nov 23, 2014, 10:37 AM   #173
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The US lags decades behind the rest of the world when it comes to any matter pertaining to SEXUALITY.

The age of consent in the Netherlands is 16, as specified by the Dutch Criminal Code at Article 245, and Article 247 which read:

Art 245: "A person who, out of wedlock, with a person who has reached the age of twelve but has not reached sixteen, performs indecent acts comprising or including sexual penetration of the body is liable to a term of imprisonment of not more than eight years or a fine of the fifth category."

Art 247: "A person who, with a person whom he knows to be unconscious or physically unable to resist or to be suffering from such a degree of mental defect or mental disease that he is incapable or not sufficiently capable of exercising or expressing his will in the matter or of offering resistance, performs indecent acts, or who, with a person who has not yet reached the age of sixteen (16) years, out of wedlock, performs indecent acts, or by whom the latter is enticed into performing, or submitting to such acts, out of wedlock, with a third party, is liable to a term of imprisonment of not more than six years or a fine of the fourth category."

Close-in-age exceptions (for consensual acts between adolescents close in age, within "social-ethical norms") are at the discretion of the prosecution. Acts such as a ménage-a-trois, or an unequal relationship, e.g. the perpetrator (17) wasn't in love while the victim (15) was, can also be considered outside "social-ethical norms".



My Great Grandmother was just 14 when she married 1872.
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