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Old Dec 20, 2012, 07:55 PM   #51
12dylan34
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Originally Posted by planetMitch View Post
this is so important you have to post? Who cares what the format is? Geez[COLOR="#808080"]
To me, yes. I've made my life around working with video, and have thus developed strong opinions about it. Moving images have been wider than they are tall since the inception of cinema, so it's quite distracting when a video is shot in portrait for me and probably a lot of people. It probably doesn't matter for a short video intended only to demonstrate something, but like what the other guy said, not even once.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 07:59 PM   #52
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Warning on testing image retention

I just wanted to post a little update for my situation.

This morning I was having heavy retention (that sounds like a female problem) and then I had to go away for about 6 hours.

My machine was running the whole time but the screen was asleep. I have an RSS process running on my iMac so I never let it sleep. When I came home and tested the display I was not seeing any retention but after an hour of usage is coming back.

So I warn you to use your machine for an hour or two before you do your test. Testing it while it is cold may give you a false result
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 08:51 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Lava Lamp Freak View Post
Would one of you who don't have image retention keep up the grid pattern for 10 minutes and then take a picture of your screen and post it here?

http://www.marco.org/rmbp-irtest.html
I tried it on my MBA and i get zero IR, i will not try it on my new 27" for a few weeks at least. I advise people not to try this on their new iMacs as the first 100 hours of screen on time is where burn in and IR are most dangerous and could cause permanent damage to the display.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 08:58 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by torana355 View Post
I tried it on my MBA and i get zero IR, i will not try it on my new 27" for a few weeks at least. I advise people not to try this on their new iMacs as the first 100 hours of screen on time is where burn in and IR are most dangerous and could cause permanent damage to the display.
Well, that's good advice for people wanting to test a new machine - except for in my case, I am already seeing this burn in from day one in normal usage of the iMac without doing any grid test. Only time I even knew about the grid test was after I saw the ugly results from normal use on my iMac.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 09:02 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by planetMitch View Post
Well, that's good advice for people wanting to test a new machine - except for in my case, I am already seeing this burn in from day one in normal usage of the iMac without doing any grid test. Only time I even knew about the grid test was after I saw the ugly results from normal use on my iMac.
If you are seeing bad IR under normal use then use the grid test, but if new users are not seeing any IR i would not go looking for it until the display has had some decent screen on time.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 09:25 PM   #56
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When you get the retention if you feel the back side of the imac where the retention is does it feel warm? I had the problem with my 2008 iMac 24. When the GPU/CPU got warm whatever I left on the screen such as text etc would burn in until I let the imac cool by not using it for a bit etc. I did some research on line and found this was a somewhat common issue. There was an app called fan control that resolved this but it ran the fans all the time and made the imac noisy.


The problem with the Imac is the mother board is behind the screen so when it heats up you get the retention. Im not a power user nor do I play games etc so I went with the base 27. It runs cool and I have not felt the back get warm at all and no image retention. I have a feeling we will see more image retention issue with the higher performance CPUs and especially GPUs
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 10:10 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by richard371 View Post
When you get the retention if you feel the back side of the imac where the retention is does it feel warm? I had the problem with my 2008 iMac 24. When the GPU/CPU got warm whatever I left on the screen such as text etc would burn in until I let the imac cool by not using it for a bit etc. I did some research on line and found this was a somewhat common issue. There was an app called fan control that resolved this but it ran the fans all the time and made the imac noisy.


The problem with the Imac is the mother board is behind the screen so when it heats up you get the retention. Im not a power user nor do I play games etc so I went with the base 27. It runs cool and I have not felt the back get warm at all and no image retention. I have a feeling we will see more image retention issue with the higher performance CPUs and especially GPUs
The back of the iMac never gets warm like my old 2009 iMac (which means my room won't be heated in the winter

The front of the screen isn't warm either. Haven't tried any of the fan control plugins because the darn thing just isn't warm in the first place. Maybe it is on the inside of the box some how, but putting my hand near the vent doesn't even feel a warm breeze after hours of use.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 10:22 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by torana355 View Post
I tried it on my MBA and i get zero IR, i will not try it on my new 27" for a few weeks at least. I advise people not to try this on their new iMacs as the first 100 hours of screen on time is where burn in and IR are most dangerous and could cause permanent damage to the display.
An LCD will be no less susceptible to image retention after 100 hours than it is brand new. There isn't a break-in period. These aren't plasmas. You either have a panel that has the issue or you don't.

It is difficult to know if your panel is suffering from image retention if you have a colorful desktop picture set and don't use any apps that have a dark-colored background. The grid test helps you to know for sure while you are in the return period.

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Originally Posted by planetMitch View Post
So I warn you to use your machine for an hour or two before you do your test. Testing it while it is cold may give you a false result
My iMac will retain images immediately upon boot after being off all night. I ran the test this morning after a long night's sleep, and the grid stuck, on the bottom half of the screen again. I believe it may be exacerbated by heat, though, because last night the whole screen showed the grid pattern after the test instead of just the bottom.

I think the panel is defective, regardless if heat plays a role in making it worse. I can see vertical lines in dark colors at all times. That never goes away. I can even see it in the black bars when I watch a movie trailer. That isn't normal. This incident makes me long for a separate display from the computer so I can just swap out the display instead of having to return the entire computer.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 10:32 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Lava Lamp Freak View Post
My iMac will retain images immediately upon boot after being off all night. I ran the test this morning after a long night's sleep, and the grid stuck, on the bottom half of the screen again. I believe it may be exacerbated by heat, though, because last night the whole screen showed the grid pattern after the test instead of just the bottom.
Well, I'm getting more confused by the hour as I track this. This evening the computer was cold as I mentioned and didn't see any problems... then about an hour in, it showed up big time. Then I have been working and watching some video - and now I can feel warm air coming from the back of the machine and low and behold, there's no retention going on.

I might just try one of the fancontrol proggies just to see what happens.

Quote:

I think the panel is defective, regardless if heat plays a role in making it worse. I can see vertical lines in dark colors at all times. That never goes away. I can even see it in the black bars when I watch a movie trailer. That isn't normal. This incident makes me long for a separate display from the computer so I can just swap out the display instead of having to return the entire computer.
I don't see the vertical lines you're seeing just fyi.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 10:19 AM   #60
planetMitch
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Apple support

I just called Apple support and showed them my last photo

http://planet5d.com/imac1

John said he'd not seen this before and looked it up - said it wasn't in their system.

Made an appointment at the local Apple store for me in an hour - so I get to pack this beast up and take it to the store! Yippee

he thought they might just replace the screen in the store... I doubt they've got screens just sitting around.

i wish the shipping box had wheels LOL!
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 03:01 PM   #61
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new imac

went to the apple store... they had the SAME BTO imac in the back room so they switched me out and moved all my data for me (tho it took an hour longer than they said it would

just got home - will update you after a few hours
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 10:11 AM   #62
planetMitch
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new iMac

Hi y'all

Wanted to give you an update on the brand-new iMac 27 inch that I got as a replacement to my iMac that was having problems.

I've been using it for two+ hours so far this morning under my normal conditions. I've been running the grid periodically every 20 minutes or 30 minutes just to see what is going on in terms of image retention.

I so far have had very very good results. There is some very slight image retention on the grid and of course panels with white backgrounds, but it is faint and does not show through into the videos I've been watching.

So far, I'm much happier with this new iMac!

I also wanted to note and then I tested a 27 inch iMac in the Apple store and it exhibited the same kinds of very faint image ghosting that I'm seeing here.

I also have been testing my old 2009 iMac, and that ghosting that it exhibits is gray. The new iMac ghost is a lime green color and stands out much more when you see it (like on my old machine that was returned).

As a side note, I was very happy that I had taken photos of my iMac screen when I went to the Apple Store to show them exactly what I was seeing. Of course when I got there, just like when you take your car into the car dealer, they're testing didn't show any issues. But having the photos convinced them to give me a new box. The Apple genius was also very happy to have something to send to the engineers because he said "they love to get boxes with problems and figure out what the issues are" -- I'm so glad I could help

I also want to highly commend the folks at the Apple store for their excellent service yet again. It did take out bit longer to transfer the data over from my old machine to my new machine, but they were very willing to do that for me even though it was incredibly crowded there just before the holidays. Excellent service all the way around!

Attached is a sample of my very faint grid pattern
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 10:45 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by planetMitch View Post
Attached is a sample of my very faint grid pattern
Thanks for the update. That looks even worse than mine because right now mine only has the grid on the bottom half of the display. (I still don't know why a few days ago it got much worse. I can't reproduce that now, even after a long day of use.) It looks like your new one is still ghosting all over the screen, just not as noticeable as your first one?

Right now I can see the whitest parts of dock icons and the bottom half of browser windows, and these are starting to become permanently retained. My browser window outline seems to be completely burned in. I was in Windows all day yesterday playing games, with no browser windows open, and when I booted back to OSX I immediately checked a grey screen and I could still see the browser window outline from earlier in the day. (But only the bottom half.)

To me, this is unacceptable because I have a cheap Dell IPS monitor that does not do this, and I expect much more from something that cost as much as the iMac. I'm returning mine next week, but I'm not getting another. I'm going back to have a separate display from the computer. I don't want to haul this huge thing repeatedly to the Apple store just for dead pixels or image retention. It seems like it is another lottery like the Retina MBP, or even worse, perhaps a problem with all of them, even if to varying degrees.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 08:10 PM   #64
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Is anyone else having any issues with this?

This is extremely disappointing if this is as wide spread as the MBPr IR issue.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 09:19 PM   #65
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image retention

I have a couple questions as I've seen several threads regarding image retention. The rMBP, iPad with Retina Display (4th Generation), 2012 iMac, etc.

1. Has this problem always been there or is it really that all of Apple's new products are experiencing this issue?

2. How much does this REALLY affect someone's use of the computer/tablet? It's definitely annoying and frustrating, but is it really a problem?
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 09:36 PM   #66
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I have a couple questions as I've seen several threads regarding image retention. The rMBP, iPad with Retina Display (4th Generation), 2012 iMac, etc.

1. Has this problem always been there or is it really that all of Apple's new products are experiencing this issue?

2. How much does this REALLY affect someone's use of the computer/tablet? It's definitely annoying and frustrating, but is it really a problem?
I think this problem has always existed with the IPS panel displays, but I've never been aware of it on a brand new display before now. I noticed it on my old 23-inch Cinema Display after it was a couple years old.

On the first day, it was a big problem. The ghosting was so severe I could still read the content of closed windows on my desktop picture. Now, I can only see the ghosting on dark grey screens. This is very noticeable in iPhoto and iMovie. When I use either in full-screen mode, I can see the outline of my browser window from yesterday -- I know it's from yesterday because I made my browser window narrower yesterday and I can still see the wider outline -- and many of my dock icons can be seen. Some of the dock icons even retain the blue color, like the iTunes, App Store, and Safari icons.

So, for most use, it isn't a problem, but in some cases it is a problem, and it is very annoying. On the first day, the ghosting could be seen in anything on the screen, including color images and video, but it isn't that bad now. I haven't been able to replicate that so I don't know if it was caused by something I was doing at the time that might cause it to happen again.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 09:59 PM   #67
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I think this problem has always existed with the IPS panel displays, but I've never been aware of it on a brand new display before now. I noticed it on my old 23-inch Cinema Display after it was a couple years old.

On the first day, it was a big problem. The ghosting was so severe I could still read the content of closed windows on my desktop picture. Now, I can only see the ghosting on dark grey screens. This is very noticeable in iPhoto and iMovie. When I use either in full-screen mode, I can see the outline of my browser window from yesterday -- I know it's from yesterday because I made my browser window narrower yesterday and I can still see the wider outline -- and many of my dock icons can be seen. Some of the dock icons even retain the blue color, like the iTunes, App Store, and Safari icons.

So, for most use, it isn't a problem, but in some cases it is a problem, and it is very annoying. On the first day, the ghosting could be seen in anything on the screen, including color images and video, but it isn't that bad now. I haven't been able to replicate that so I don't know if it was caused by something I was doing at the time that might cause it to happen again.


I recently started to notice image retention on my iPad. It's very annoying, but does it really affect my use of the iPad. Unless I am on a plain gray screen I cannot see the ghost image.

I ordered one of the new 2012 iMacs and I'm trying to decide how I should feel if it by chance does have some ghosting or image retention. It feels like I should be angry or unhappy with it, but then part of me feels like the whole thing really isn't that big of a deal?
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 10:17 PM   #68
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I recently started to notice image retention on my iPad. It's very annoying, but does it really affect my use of the iPad. Unless I am on a plain gray screen I cannot see the ghost image.

I ordered one of the new 2012 iMacs and I'm trying to decide how I should feel if it by chance does have some ghosting or image retention. It feels like I should be angry or unhappy with it, but then part of me feels like the whole thing really isn't that big of a deal?
Yeah, I know what you mean. I have asked myself the same thing. It really just depends on the severity of the ghosting and how it affects your usage, if it all. I was thrilled when I got mine because I didn't have any dead pixels. Then when I saw the ghost of the Guild Wars 2 installer on the first day after closing the window, I went, "GRRrr."

Personally, I don't like having a problem like this from the beginning on a product that cost so much money. I worry that it might get worse over time and affect use and resale value. I could exchange it for another, but then I might get one with even worse problems. I have two weeks to decide what to do.

Edit: Looking back through my old posts, I found this one from almost four years ago. I forgot that I had the same problem with a 24-inch iMac. Nothing I've used since then, until now, has done it.
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthre...80#post6891380

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Old Dec 22, 2012, 10:18 PM   #69
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went to the apple store... they had the SAME BTO imac in the back room so they switched me out and moved all my data for me (tho it took an hour longer than they said it would

just got home - will update you after a few hours
Wow. Did you get 3TB Fusion or 1TB fusion? I didn't think they had such a thing in the back.

I have a very yellow screen so at some point I will need it swapped/fixed. I just didn't think they had the parts in stock right now.
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 07:23 AM   #70
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Wow. Did you get 3TB Fusion or 1TB fusion? I didn't think they had such a thing in the back.

I have a very yellow screen so at some point I will need it swapped/fixed. I just didn't think they had the parts in stock right now.
I got the 1Tb fusion

i had no clue they had such things in the back of the store either... I was totally shocked! But pleased as well... didn't have to ship my computer back to china and wait for a new one.

Our store is one of the largest 'mall' stores in the US (if not THE largest) so maybe we're unique in that regard.
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 05:57 PM   #71
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Did the grid test with no retention.

27" / 680MX
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Old Dec 24, 2012, 10:15 PM   #72
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Did the grid test with no retention.

27" / 680MX
That's great to hear. I also hear that the EFI update resolved some people's issues.
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 09:24 AM   #73
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Mine is still showing the retained browser outline from days ago. It isn't as intense as it was, but it won't go away even after days of having other things on the screen.

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Originally Posted by itsamacthing View Post
That's great to hear. I also hear that the EFI update resolved some people's issues.
The EFI update was only for the 21.5-inch iMac, and there is no way possible for it to do anything about image retention. That is a quality of the LCD panel and will likely vary in exhibition and intensity from panel to panel.

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Old Dec 26, 2012, 09:13 AM   #74
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so far so good

My iMac is still within acceptable limits for me... if I do the grid pattern, I can see faint checkerboard remnants, but overall, I'm not seeing retention in any videos I play and so far, I'm happy with this particular iMac.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 01:49 PM   #75
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My iMac is still within acceptable limits for me... if I do the grid pattern, I can see faint checkerboard remnants, but overall, I'm not seeing retention in any videos I play and so far, I'm happy with this particular iMac.
Can you see your dock icons when you look at iMovie or iPhoto full screen? That is my biggest problem right now. Both iMovie and iPhoto, which I like using full screen, are just the right shade of grey to show my browser outlines and dock icons.

Unfortunately, the two Apple Stores I live between do not have any stock of the 27-inch iMac. They said that they have had 27-inch iMacs in stock, but they go quickly. I'm not willing to wait for a replacement to be shipped next month, so if they don't have one in stock to exchange for soon, I'll just return it and then wait for stock to come in. If the next one does it as well, I'll just exchange it for a MacBook Pro and get a different display. I will not accept seeing remnants of icons and windows in grey screens.
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