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Old Dec 18, 2012, 11:22 AM   #26
MacBoobsPro
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I still dont buy the 'less consumer choice' argument. If someone is copying then surely that is less choice than if two companies innovate themselves?!
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 11:28 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Digital Skunk View Post
And Apple ripped off many a tech company in its day and vice versa and we've never seen such nonsense in the courts. Or at least it was kept quite.
Can you give me some examples of companies Apple ripped off. Always like reading up about this stuff.

Also it's much harder to keep things "quiet" these days with the internet. It's the world we live in. Besides surely if a company feels they've been ripped off by apple it's their duty to report it to the relevant authorities?

I'm pretty sure you've been blinded by the media because as far as I remember lawsuits have been going on in the tech world since way back in the day.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 11:36 AM   #28
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Apple/Samsung, stop bothering each other and start innovating! I don't want to see a slightly updated 5S or S4.
No, the judge said 'not enough evidence apple sales suffer even when samedung copied apple, no injunction in favor of apple'.

Translation: 'apple, keep innovating, others will copy regardless of your patents, and we judges will continue to rule against you any way any how, evidence be dammed'

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Originally Posted by MacBoobsPro View Post
I still dont buy the 'less consumer choice' argument. If someone is copying then surely that is less choice than if two companies innovate themselves?!
Samedung and others like it innovate on how to ripoff apple and get away with it.

As far as samedung is concerned, 1 billion in fines is less than 4 billions in research.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 11:42 AM   #29
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Interesting statement by Samsung, saying "it is better when companies compete fairly in the marketplace, rather than in court" just as they've filed a new suit against LG over LCD patents. I guess the spin is that they have no choice but to sue, but I wonder why these big players don't more often prefer negotiations to the all-or-nothing approach of court cases.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 11:52 AM   #30
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I wish people would quit with this silly innovation canard. Being involved in lawsuits doesn't prevent companies from innovating. I'm sure Apple and Samsung can walk and chew gum at the same time.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 11:53 AM   #31
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Samsung trying to backtrack at this juncture is too little too late.

"The Commission has indeed sent requests for information to Apple and Samsung concerning the enforcement of standards-essential patents in the mobile telephony sector. Such requests for information are standard procedure in antitrust investigations to allow the Commission to establish the relevant facts in a case. We have no other comments at this stage," the EU executive said in a statement."

The EU will get the information they need an proceed forward. It will be one hell of Samsung sandwich. EU and the US with Samsung in the middle.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 11:56 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by KdParker View Post
Not sure if this really means anything. Maybe they are playing nice with each other
Suits are still on.

All this means is that Samsung has figured out they won't get the injunctions and further attempts are more fuel in the EU investigation that they are using SEPs in violation of antitrust laws

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Funny, everywhere I've read is spinning this story against Samsung for making such a ridiculous statement - 'in the interest of protecting consumer choice'.

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Anyone with a clue read through that pr babble. Power of the world wide webs and all that
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 11:56 AM   #33
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The real solution to this patent mess is to completely eliminate all patenting.

A second best solution would be a return to the original idea that patents are for very limited times and then move into the public domain. Adjusting for market lifespan changes that should be about two years.

A third best, and more likely scenario, is to put everything under FRAND like rules. All patents must be licensed to anyone in a fair manner after a period of two years from the original patent filing.

Let's stop enriching the lawyers and get back in the business of innovation and production of great products.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 11:56 AM   #34
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Funny, Macrumors spins this story against Samsung, other tech sites spin this story against Apple.

Who to trust?

I just want the companies to get back to producing kick *** phones and devices.
What I find funny is that MR posts this but does not post THIS
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 11:57 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by nepalisherpa View Post
Apple/Samsung, stop bothering each other and start innovating! I don't want to see a slightly updated 5S or S4.
You still will, lawsuits or not. These companies aren't going to blow their load or profit margins on major revamps every time
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 11:59 AM   #36
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I wish people would quit with this silly innovation canard. Being involved in lawsuits doesn't prevent companies from innovating. I'm sure Apple and Samsung can walk and chew gum at the same time.
Yea its almost like there are two people responsible in the respective companies working on innovations and law suits and they can only do one thing at a time

Plus people think that all Samsung do are bloody phones ...
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 11:59 AM   #37
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Companies around the world are going to be bery leary of doing business with Apple in the future. Like Apple, Kodak decided to become a patent infringment raider for profit - look what that got them.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 12:06 PM   #38
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Samsung should really sort their grammar out before releasing statements like this:

"Samsung has decided to withdraw our injunction requests against Apple"

They refer to their company as plural by using "our", yet contradict it by saying "has".

It might as well read, "We has decided to withdraw our injunction requests against Apple."

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Old Dec 18, 2012, 12:07 PM   #39
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Like Apple, Kodak decided to become a patent infringment raider for profit - look what that got them.
What does that even mean?

In Kodak's last dying breath, they tried to sue everyone in desperate hopes to keep their top-level manager paychecks coming for another few years (90% of their employees were laid off in the prior 10 years)

Apple is nowhere near dying. Even if they never sold another Apple product, they could keep everyone at Apple employed for the rest of their lifetimes.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 12:07 PM   #40
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Wow how is this for spin

Gizmodo says apple denied perma ban and here on macrumours I read this
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 12:09 PM   #41
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The real solution to this patent mess is to completely eliminate all patenting.
Good idea. Then Asian factories can simply rip off American R&D and churn out clone products at lower prices, boosting their economies while crippling our own. No designers required.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 12:11 PM   #42
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Cannot wait for these suits to end.

Both make great phones that any user would be lucky to own. I am happy with my Note 2 that I bought Sunday. The customization and features are great and the open platform is exciting. Tired of the stale broing OS and the smaller screen of the iPhones. That being said the iPhone is great for those who want a seemless and more closed environment and just want it easy to use and have no need for customizing. That being said these lawsuits need to be over and both companies need to work on keeping customers happy and not bored with the same ol' same ol'.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 12:17 PM   #43
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How could whoever came up with the FRAND rules not have foreseen than the vague, subjective definition of "reasonable" was going to be a huge problem at some point? Duh!
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 12:18 PM   #44
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Wow how is this for spin

Gizmodo says apple denied perma ban and here on macrumours I read this
Haha, it's because the owners of this site *really* like Apple, and spin for Apple makes Apple fans happier. All part of the Pavlovian Conditioning.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 12:25 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by ryanasimov View Post
A show of hands, please... Who would prefer that all future stories about Apple/Samsung legal wranglings be relegated to Page 2?
Show of hands, how many folks think people like you should use your brain and simply not click on things you aren't interested in reading

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Originally Posted by pubwvj View Post
The real solution to this patent mess is to completely eliminate all patenting.
Innovation comes to a halt as no one wants to waste time on something that everyone les can freely use

Quote:
A second best solution would be a return to the original idea that patents are for very limited times and then move into the public domain. Adjusting for market lifespan changes that should be about two years.

A third best, and more likely scenario, is to put everything under FRAND like rules. All patents must be licensed to anyone in a fair manner after a period of two years from the original patent filing.

.
Again innovation stops. Two years is not long enough to recover R&D costs for many things.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 12:28 PM   #46
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Wow how is this for spin

Gizmodo says apple denied perma ban and here on macrumours I read this
They both happened but MacRumors only reported one. Bad journalism.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 12:43 PM   #47
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Samsung needs to be seen as not anti-competitive by the EU Courts.
The Courts could levy hefty fines against Samsung that would cut into profits.

If they can get a licensing deal with Apple for their owned patents then so much the better.

They continue to grow in market share at Apple's expense and they can get a royalty for every Apple Phone sold too.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 12:45 PM   #48
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Nice spin Sammy. Little face-saving-spin on an untenable situation and nothing more IMO.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 12:50 PM   #49
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Nice spin Sammy. Little face-saving-spin on an untenable situation and nothing more IMO.
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Originally Posted by dalbir4444 View Post
They both happened but MacRumors only reported one. Bad journalism.
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Originally Posted by wonderspark View Post
Haha, it's because the owners of this site *really* like Apple, and spin for Apple makes Apple fans happier. All part of the Pavlovian Conditioning.
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Originally Posted by MuddyPaws1 View Post
What I find funny is that MR posts this but does not post THIS
Voice yourselves here please: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthre...3#post16515623
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 01:48 PM   #50
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More important news : Judge Koh has ruled.

Apple got its injunction denied, based on the grounds that it would hurt the consumer with little benefit to Apple and Samsung got denied its retrial based on the fact that they didn't specifically ask for the Seagate litigation.

Koh seems pretty much done with this, she's basically pushing both parties to appeal so that she doesn't have to rule in this case anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post
Innovation comes to a halt as no one wants to waste time on something that everyone les can freely use

Again innovation stops. Two years is not long enough to recover R&D costs for many things.
And today, with patents, innovation stops because everyone is afraid of getting hit by a patent lawsuit and not being able to afford to defend themselves. So every just goes for tried and true, and we get stagnation so that no one gets hit with a patent lawsuit as soon as they try to make something different from what's on the market (you never know who's sitting on what in this patent game, heck, even patents that are far removed from your product can be used against you, based on a few claims).

Software patents right now are doing more harm than good.
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