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Old Dec 18, 2012, 09:38 PM   #26
Beeplance
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People really need to stop with the complain about a 720p or 1080p screen.

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Old Dec 18, 2012, 09:39 PM   #27
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People really need to stop with the complain about a 720p or 1080p screen.
At the distance you use your phone after 300ppi you can't really notice the difference.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 09:41 PM   #28
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At the distance you use your phone after 300ppi you can't really notice the difference.
Exactly.

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Old Dec 18, 2012, 09:46 PM   #29
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Exactly. Too bad the thread-starter can't comprehend a simple logic like this.
I noticed a trend for looking at numbers on a spec-sheet and not really thinking about them, some OEM's just want you to believe that having better specs means having a better phone which is not true, better phone and OS is a highly judgmental and personal thing.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 09:46 PM   #30
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Do you realize what a 1080p screen would do to the iPhone? The battery and horsepower required to power that display would mean a bigger, bulkier phone. Not to mention, it would equate to a completely unnecessary 550 ppi. They aren't losing stock value because the 5 doesn't have a 1080p display.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 09:49 PM   #31
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What i think iOS really lacks?

Mouse support.


I'm using a n iPad for VMWare view, and if it could support bluetooth mice, i'd be able to plug it into my monitor (already possible), use a bluetooth keyboard (already possible) and use the iPad as a very competent view terminal anywhere I go.

AS it is, having to use the touch screen when running remote Windows sessions (which aren't that touch friendly) is a little bit awkward.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 10:53 PM   #32
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Metro/Subway and Starbucks payments not withstanding, but where is that door opening, room entering light and music on technology? GPS won't work here because you could trigger it a block away. Bluetooth 4.0 I don't think can handle it yet.
This is a lame usage case argument. When I walk into a room now, I raise my hand up to flip on a switch.

With NFC, I have to reach into my pocket and then reach up. It's MORE work to turn on a light with NFC.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 10:59 PM   #33
Jimmy James
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What is wifi direct?
It allows 2 phones to easily transfer files directly between them using their built-in wifi. No router or other "go between" device is required.

The guys at work are easily sharing lots of files on the Android phones.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 11:22 PM   #34
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It really isn't just because Apple does it. There's just no valid application for NFC yet.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 11:26 PM   #35
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It really isn't just because Apple does it. There's just no valid application for NFC yet.
Its also easily hacked so i wouldn't feel safe using it
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 12:02 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by VinegarTasters View Post
Here are 3 features that iPhone 5 lacks BADLY.

1) Image Stabilization
The iPhone 5 does have image stabilization. It just doesn't overdo it.
If you need something more, you can use the youtube image stabilization.

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Originally Posted by VinegarTasters View Post
2) NFC

Metro/Subway and Starbucks payments not withstanding, but where is that door opening, room entering light and music on technology? GPS won't work here because you could trigger it a block away. Bluetooth 4.0 I don't think can handle it yet.
Can't you do everything you listed with a NFC card?

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Originally Posted by VinegarTasters View Post

3) 1080p wider screen. (You know why the stocks are down currently because of lower demand than usual).
I doubt many people are demanding 1080p on a 4" screen.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 12:17 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by MassiveAttack View Post
These same questions were asked years back:

Why do people make such a fuss about the iPhone not having 3G?

Why do people make such a fuss about the iPhone not having multi tasking?

Why do people make such a fuss about the iPhone not having copy and paste?

Why do people make such a fuss about the iPhone not having a larger display?

Why do people make such a fuss about the iPhone not having a dual core processor?

Why do people make such a fuss about the iPhone not having turn by turn navigation?

and so on....

Do you get it?
The difference is people, many people, actually use everything above. I'm willing to bet more places are accepting transactions using Passbook than using NFC.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 12:23 AM   #38
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The difference is people, many people, actually use everything above. I'm willing to bet more places are accepting transactions using Passbook than using NFC.
Japan & other asian countries would like to have a word with you. Or does nothing exist outside of America?
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 12:33 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
The iPhone 5 does have image stabilization. It just doesn't overdo it.
If you need something more, you can use the youtube image stabilization.



Can't you do everything you listed with a NFC card?



I doubt many people are demanding 1080p on a 4" screen.
NFC cards are another card to carry around to search for. Since it is not powered it is difficult to reach longer distance. Powered NFC (from like a phone's battery) can reach longer distance, and is good for turning on off lights and opening doors, etc. Transferring big files can use bluetooth or wifi but simple tagging that is fast and secure should be more useful in NFC (like Metro passes). And if not powered, simple touch allows it to still work (that is the main good thing about fallback plain NFC, no power requirement, lasts forever).

Well, at least you show some aspect of not just being a hired poster. (if you can't discredit their facts, discredit their reputation and attack them personally. I now see about 3 or 4 of these people tagging along all posts that are negative against certain products). I thought you were legit until I saw your last comment. Who says you have to stick with 4" screen? That is a liability. It is why Apple's stocks are low. People want bigger screens. Wider, not just taller. They want 1080p so they can view all their movies and shows in 1080p without cropping or rescaling, losing detail.

No one in their right mind will want to buy a 4" screen when they have used a bigger screen. I certainly don't. And that thing about one-handed? BS. They say the good thing about iPad Mini is that you can hold it in one hand. That thing is 8 inches. So why is iPhone limited to that small width? I will tell you why. Egos. Someone made a mistake and because of pride, they will keep losing customers until the company tanks, or they wake up.

One thing keeping Apple still relevant is the software Apps (the same software popularity that kept Windows and Microsoft alive in the past, namely games and the office suite). Apple became irrelevant in the past because it got stuck with designing more and more expensive machines but lacked the software people will purchase it for. Who wants to buy an expensive paperweight that looks nice? If software runs faster, looks better on bigger screens, yes people will jump ship, FAST. It is this same thing that drove the 286, 386, 486, pentium, nvidia ATI, big drives, better motherboard craze in the PC era. If Apple wants to stay with small screens, once Windows Phone (because it has a faster OS layer) will overtake it once it gets better software (they don't seem to be suck with egos about small widths and holding with one hand).

Android is riding the tech spec craze like the old PC era of upgrading. But it is stuck with slow java (sorry android fans). Which is gonna hurt them badly in the future. There are no AAA games in Java. The only good games on android are programmed in C (bypassing the java), but stuck with the slow OS layer still in Java. Android needs 2x the ram and 2x the cores just to keep up with plain C operating system. I have mentioned previously, the only way Android can save themselves is to move the Java layer up into the App layer for backward compatibility, and allow the OS to be pure C and allow future Android+ apps direct acces to the new C OS layer (linux perhaps). If they don't do this Windows Phone will overtake them (and Apple) in the future once AAA games start coming out. The same reason why people buy games on Windows not Mac (they run faster, and the tech upgrading of Windows allow faster performance).

OK, you can continue with personal attacks now. Since no one seems to be able to refute the facts.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 02:40 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by VinegarTasters View Post
I thought you were legit until I saw your last comment. Who says you have to stick with 4" screen?

No one in their right mind will want to buy a 4" screen when they have used a bigger screen. I certainly don't.
So your initial post is ridiculous? Don't blame others for your own ridiculous arguments. You are the one suggesting the iPhone 5 needs 1080p. You never said the iPhone 5 needs a bigger screen.

What's the screen size of the iPhone 5? 4".

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by VinegarTasters View Post
People want bigger screens. Wider, not just taller. They want 1080p so they can view all their movies and shows in 1080p without cropping or rescaling, losing detail.

No one in their right mind will want to buy a 4" screen when they have used a bigger screen. I certainly don't. And that thing about one-handed? BS. They say the good thing about iPad Mini is that you can hold it in one hand. That thing is 8 inches. So why is iPhone limited to that small width? I will tell you why. Egos. Someone made a mistake and because of pride, they will keep losing customers until the company tanks, or they wake up.
If I don't want to lose detail, I watch them on blu-ray on my 50" plasma TV. Not some 4" screen or a 5" screen. I don't sit around watching 1080p movies on smartphones or tablets. I watch them on my 50" plasma TV with surround sound.

If that's your primary concern is 1080p movies, why don't you just watch your 1080p videos on an 9.7" ipad with retina screen then?

One-handed use is not BS; Your 1080p argument is BS.

One-handed use is very important to me. That's why I went back to my iPhone 4S after using the Note 2 for 2 weeks

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by VinegarTasters View Post
NFC cards are another card to carry around to search for. Since it is not powered it is difficult to reach longer distance. Powered NFC (from like a phone's battery) can reach longer distance, and is good for turning on off lights and opening doors, etc.
So how far does it go with this Powered NFC (Near Field Communication)?

Last edited by hyteckit; Dec 19, 2012 at 03:44 AM.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 04:01 AM   #41
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Serious question, where is NFC used in retail establishment in the US? I have never seen it anywhere. I seen scanning the Starbucks app or boarding passes for a flight, but I don't think I have have ever seen NFC being used.
Serious question, where is Passbook used in retail establishment outside the US? I have never seen it anywhere. I've seen using NFC tags for change phone settings and I know that NFC is widely spread and used in Japan, but I'm sure I have never seen Passbook being used.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 05:55 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by SomeDudeAsking View Post
Japan & other asian countries would like to have a word with you. Or does nothing exist outside of America?
I'm guessing Apple mostly thinks about what works in the US since that's where it's based. In Asia you have to go through the Chinese and worry much more about the knockoff market.

Most advance Apple seems to make go toward thing popular in the West, it seems to me. I know Asia is a huge market, but notice where Apple stuff gets rolled out first.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 06:15 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by SomeDudeAsking View Post
The Japanese also make better music and games.
While I agree with 'games' in general; that's completely subjective and useless.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by wangda View Post
It is well known that iPhone 5 is the best cell phone in the current market, and i believe Apple will improve the iPhone.
Okay, even I take Apple up the butt and I will tell you that the iPhone is NOT the best phone on the market. Even simply by the fact that there is no 'best' phone for people, just one person.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 07:54 AM   #44
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I am surprised no one mentions swype input method on the key board. It is night and day between swype and finger typing, like one finger typing and all finger typing. Swpe is logical and fast and allows one to move the the thumb or finger word to word without lifting the finger from the screen including for capital words Or even alternative characters or even double characters.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 09:23 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by VinegarTasters View Post
So why is iPhone limited to that small width? I will tell you why. Egos. Someone made a mistake and because of pride, they will keep losing customers until the company tanks, or they wake up.
Mistake, no. But Apple has locked themselves in with "RETINA" They can't increase screen size while retain 960x640 resolution without lowering PPI. And to fragment the apps development by changing to 1280x720/1920x1080, even bigger head ache. Apple did the best compromise by moving to 1136x640. Increase size, retain app compatibility, but without going back on "RETINA"
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 10:59 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Nale72 View Post
Serious question, where is Passbook used in retail establishment outside the US? I have never seen it anywhere. I've seen using NFC tags for change phone settings and I know that NFC is widely spread and used in Japan, but I'm sure I have never seen Passbook being used.
Do you guys have gift cards that get scanned by a bar code scanner? I would say 90% of the US retailers use that method.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 12:38 PM   #47
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What i think iOS really lacks?

Mouse support.


I'm using a n iPad for VMWare view, and if it could support bluetooth mice, i'd be able to plug it into my monitor (already possible), use a bluetooth keyboard (already possible) and use the iPad as a very competent view terminal anywhere I go.

AS it is, having to use the touch screen when running remote Windows sessions (which aren't that touch friendly) is a little bit awkward.
I agree 100%. I can get my job to foot part of the bill for a laptop due to being on call. If the iPad supported a mouse, I think a valid argument could be made for it replacing a laptop. But in it's current state, they (rightly) won't allow iPad purchases for oncall duties.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 12:59 PM   #48
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Mistake, no. But Apple has locked themselves in with "RETINA" They can't increase screen size while retain 960x640 resolution without lowering PPI. And to fragment the apps development by changing to 1280x720/1920x1080, even bigger head ache. Apple did the best compromise by moving to 1136x640. Increase size, retain app compatibility, but without going back on "RETINA"
See, this is where the problem lies. They have people who don't look into the future or in the past. You look into the past to see mistakes and correct them. You look into the future to be where it is relevant.

All early television programs in the US (where Apple is founded) and most of the countries in the world is run on either PAL or NTSC. 720x480 for NTSC in USA.

In 2009, analog systems were transitioned to digital HD (1280x720 or 1920x1080).

All HD movies (blu-ray, etc) that you buy since then and now are either in 1280x720 or 1920x1080.

Now lets see what Apple did. It released iPhone in 2007, iPhone 3G in 2008, All have resolution of 480x320. (you can't fit 720x480 television shows in that without rescaling the image, losing detail).

In 2009 people went digital (DTV standard, replace analog) to 1280x720 and 1920x1080. What did Apple do? It released iPhone 3GS at 480x320 (even worse). It had one year to correct itself and instead of going 1280x720 (to meet minimum HD resolution), it went 960x640 for iPhone 4 in 2010. You still can't fit any HD in that without rescaling (losing detail).

Even today in 2012 (3 years after digital HD transition, in 2009), the iPhone 5 CAN'T DISPLAY minimum HD content (1280x720), it can't display the already standard Full HD 1920x1080p. It has that odd resolution of 1136x640. It has to rescale which will lose detail for ALL HD movies and current digital television shows.

People will say, well, they can only go 2x width or height so it scales well for the apps.

FALSE!: 960x640 to 1136x640 is not 2x times. If you can fill black border on height, why can't you fill black border for width? JUST LIKE HOW iPhone apps run on iPad. Retina iPhone apps runs fine on iPad 1/2 with black borders on top and bottom. On retina iPad 3/4, there is enough space to 2x or 4x retina/non-retina iPhone apps, with black borders on height and width.

So they could have kept up with technology and standards by going 1280x720 minimum for iPhone 5 at 326ppi and kept black borders for both height and width but with a nice 4.3 or 4.5 inch screen. But now we are stuck with an oddball resolution that CAN'T display any HD content without rescaling. Screen too small. But hey, other companies are not stupid. Everyone is jumping to 1080p now at 5". Last year people had minimum 1280x720 in a lot of phones. Apple will lose 1.5 years of customers if they go with 4" screens in 2013 with iPhone 5S, and correct themselves in 2014 with iPhone 6 to finally support 1080p minimum and a bigger screen. It is Apple losing sight and losing to Microsoft back then repeating all over again today. Thinking it can set trends forever.

Look at the iMac? WTF! You can't upgrade the RAM unless you are iFixit with their tools and expertise. Changing phones on subsidy maybe (maybe once or twice every 2 years), but buying a whole new $2000 desktop every year just to upgrade a $90 harddrive or RAM? They are gonna bankrupt the customers or bankrupt themselves from losing customers.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 01:44 PM   #49
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See, this is where the problem lies. They have people who don't look into the future or in the past. You look into the past to see mistakes and correct them. You look into the future to be where it is relevant.

All early television programs in the US (where Apple is founded) and most of the countries in the world is run on either PAL or NTSC. 720x480 for NTSC in USA.

In 2009, analog systems were transitioned to digital HD (1280x720 or 1920x1080).

All HD movies (blu-ray, etc) that you buy since then and now are either in 1280x720 or 1920x1080.

Now lets see what Apple did. It released iPhone in 2007, iPhone 3G in 2008, All have resolution of 480x320. (you can't fit 720x480 television shows in that without rescaling the image, losing detail).

In 2009 people went digital (DTV standard, replace analog) to 1280x720 and 1920x1080. What did Apple do? It released iPhone 3GS at 480x320 (even worse). It had one year to correct itself and instead of going 1280x720 (to meet minimum HD resolution), it went 960x640 for iPhone 4 in 2010. You still can't fit any HD in that without rescaling (losing detail).

Even today in 2012 (3 years after digital HD transition, in 2009), the iPhone 5 CAN'T DISPLAY minimum HD content (1280x720), it can't display the already standard Full HD 1920x1080p. It has that odd resolution of 1136x640. It has to rescale which will lose detail for ALL HD movies and current digital television shows.

People will say, well, they can only go 2x width or height so it scales well for the apps.

FALSE!: 960x640 to 1136x640 is not 2x times. If you can fill black border on height, why can't you fill black border for width? JUST LIKE HOW iPhone apps run on iPad. Retina iPhone apps runs fine on iPad 1/2 with black borders on top and bottom. On retina iPad 3/4, there is enough space to 2x or 4x retina/non-retina iPhone apps, with black borders on height and width.

So they could have kept up with technology and standards by going 1280x720 minimum for iPhone 5 at 326ppi and kept black borders for both height and width but with a nice 4.3 or 4.5 inch screen. But now we are stuck with an oddball resolution that CAN'T display any HD content without rescaling. Screen too small. But hey, other companies are not stupid. Everyone is jumping to 1080p now at 5". Last year people had minimum 1280x720 in a lot of phones. Apple will lose 1.5 years of customers if they go with 4" screens in 2013 with iPhone 5S, and correct themselves in 2014 with iPhone 6 to finally support 1080p minimum and a bigger screen. It is Apple losing sight and losing to Microsoft back then repeating all over again today. Thinking it can set trends forever.

Look at the iMac? WTF! You can't upgrade the RAM unless you are iFixit with their tools and expertise. Changing phones on subsidy maybe (maybe once or twice every 2 years), but buying a whole new $2000 desktop every year just to upgrade a $90 harddrive or RAM? They are gonna bankrupt the customers or bankrupt themselves from losing customers.
There is 0 perceptual difference in detail between 1136x640 on a 4" screen, 1280x720 on a 4.3" screen, and 1920x1080 on a 5" screen. This is not an opinion, and this is not something that can be argued anymore than 1+1=2 can be argued.

Regarding losing sales, based on Google's own numbers, only 6.1% of active Android devices are considered "large screens" by Google's definition. This number is down from the last time I checked.

http://developer.android.com/about/d...rds/index.html





Google defines this as devices over 4 inches (looks like it goes from about 4.3 and above)

http://developer.android.com/guide/p...s_support.html



There simply isn't a big demand for large screen phones.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 08:13 PM   #50
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There is 0 perceptual difference in detail between 1136x640 on a 4" screen, 1280x720 on a 4.3" screen, and 1920x1080 on a 5" screen. This is not an opinion, and this is not something that can be argued anymore than 1+1=2 can be argued.

Regarding losing sales, based on Google's own numbers, only 6.1% of active Android devices are considered "large screens" by Google's definition. This number is down from the last time I checked.

http://developer.android.com/about/d...rds/index.html

Image

Image

Google defines this as devices over 4 inches (looks like it goes from about 4.3 and above)

http://developer.android.com/guide/p...s_support.html

Image

There simply isn't a big demand for large screen phones.
This response is skewed. That is over a year ago when large screens just picked up. It also includes tons of manufacturers that don't have the budget to make large size phones in volume (LCD costs more money in large size). Do you want a fair assessment?

Ask a manufacturer that makes smartphones in all sizes and ask them which sells the most? Ask Samsung. If I remember correctly, the Galaxy S3 and Galaxy Note 2 are all 4.3 inches or larger (your definition of large size). My definition of large size is enough to put in 1080p. (I can handle 4.5-5.5 no problem). And I see what you did there, shifting to size, rather than tackle the 1080p problem.

As for seeing detail, just look at the reviews. People say the HTC Droid DNA screen trumps all smartphone displays? Why? They all say the 1080p. So yes, there is a perceptual difference. It IS a 1+1=2 simple answer. 1080p looks better. Besides, only at 1000ppi can you not tell the difference between pixels when holding it about 6 inches in front of your eyes. The iPhone is only 326ppi. And this is scientific degree arc calculation from eye experts.

So in conclusion, this dodging the large screen and 1080p is gonna cost Apple 1.5 years of lost time and customers (that is if they wake up). If they don't wake up and stick to the small screen size and lack of 1080p headon, they are gonna repeat their disaster all over again (old apple II and mac losing to competitors), as even slow java android has more marketshare than them right now just simply being able to ride the tech wave (larger screen, faster processor, more variety, etc). And we have windows phone around the corner with a faster OS, just waiting for apps, but not hampered by egos.
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