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Old Dec 19, 2012, 07:44 PM   #26
coolfactor
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Apple did not invent pinch to zoom. Other companies did, Apple just copied it.
You are right, but an invention is nothing without a good implementation. Show me one device before the iPhone that had its class of multitouch capabilities? Just one. I'm waiting...
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 07:44 PM   #27
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To all you people saying that this is natural on every device fail to realize that it was only obvious AFTER Apple implemented it on the iPhone. Hindsight is always clear after someone else has done it and I dare you to come up with something better.

I'm not defending Apple here but just pointing out something before it's said.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 07:45 PM   #28
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Why do you click and comment (aka complain)? Just curious.
If I could just down vote I would.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 07:45 PM   #29
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 07:47 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeDudeAsking View Post
Apple did not invent pinch to zoom. Other companies did, Apple just copied it.
What companies shipped consumer products that included pinch to zoom as a feature? Please, list links to these products, companies, and patents.

Thx.

Here, go to 33:40, and note the reaction of the viewers.:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s72uTrA5EDY
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 07:47 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by coolfactor View Post
You are right, but an invention is nothing without a good implementation. Show me one device before the iPhone that had its class of multitouch capabilities? Just one. I'm waiting...
That's not the way patenting works...
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 07:47 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by coolfactor View Post
You are right, but an invention is nothing without a good implementation. Show me one device before the iPhone that had its class of multitouch capabilities? Just one. I'm waiting...
Apple copying pinch to zoom from other companies doesn't give it a God given right to a patent for it.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 07:49 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by imiket View Post
to all you people saying that this is natural on every device fail to realize that it was only obvious after apple implemented it on the iphone. Hindsight is always clear after someone else has done it and i dare you to come up with something better.

I'm not defending apple here but just pointing out something before it's said.
exactly.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeDudeAsking View Post
Apple copying pinch to zoom from other companies doesn't give it a God given right to a patent for it.
You've got nothing but an opinion. Apple did something. They made something of value, and the lazy and entitled want it for nothing. Proof that it's the best solution out there.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 07:49 PM   #34
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Sounds like someone's getting paid off...
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 07:51 PM   #35
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These threads will stop when Apple stops bully suing with invalid, frivolous patents.
These threads will stop when people stop accusing Apple of suing with invalid, frivolous patents.

Ah, the Internet.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 07:51 PM   #36
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OO OO OO Tell us who it was!!!!!?????
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
So cool, yet not invented by Apple in Cupertino California. I've seen pinch to zoom implemented before 2007. It was done with two index fingers, but the gesture itself and idea behind it was exactly the same. Doing it with an index finger and a thumb, the preferred iOS method, is functionally identical.

That's the major point of this thread, not who copied who, but who invented what and owns the rights to it.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 07:51 PM   #37
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exactly.

You've got nothing but an opinion. Apple did something. They made something of value, and the lazy and entitled want it for nothing. Proof that it's the best solution out there.
They don't want it for nothing, and they're not stealing it from Apple after they supposedly spent billions of dollars in research figuring out the intricacies of pinch to zoom.

The gesture had been displayed long before Apple first showed it on the iPhone. The whole concept of multitouch and all the amazing things you could do with it has a long, storied history stretching back to at least the early 80's. The biggest problem here isn't other companies stealing from Apple, rather Apple getting credit for something they didn't invent themselves.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 07:52 PM   #38
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Irrelevant - it doesn't matter whether or not a patent has been commercialized to be valid or invalid.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mentholiptus View Post
What companies shipped consumer products that included pinch to zoom as a feature? Please, list links to these products, companies, and patents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeDudeAsking View Post
Apple copying pinch to zoom from other companies doesn't give it a God given right to a patent for it.
Yes, so there would be a case of prior art. If Apple's implementation differs then Apple's patent would be valid.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 07:52 PM   #39
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Sounds like someone's getting paid off...
hahaha let's all get out our tinfoil hats
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 07:53 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mentholiptus View Post
What companies shipped consumer products that included pinch to zoom as a feature? Please, list links to these products, companies, and patents.

Thx.

Here, go to 33:40, and note the reaction of the viewers.:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s72uTrA5EDY
Just because Apple users don't know much about computer research doesn't mean nothing else exists:

Quote:
Multi-touch technology began in 1982, when the University of Toronto's Input Research Group developed the first human-input multi-touch system. The system used a frosted-glass panel with a camera placed behind the glass. When a finger or several fingers pressed on the glass, the camera would detect the action as one or more black spots on an otherwise white background, allowing it to be registered as an input. Since the size of a dot was dependent on pressure (how hard the person was pressing on the glass), the system was somewhat pressure-sensitive as well.[2]

In 1983, Bell Labs at Murray Hill published a comprehensive discussion of touch-screen based interfaces.[6] In 1984, Bell Labs engineered a touch screen that could change images with more than one hand. In 1985, the University of Toronto group including Bill Buxton developed a multi-touch tablet that used capacitance rather than bulky camera-based optical sensing systems.[2]

Sears et al. (1990)[7] gave a review of academic research on single and multi-touch touchscreen human–computer interaction of the time, describing single touch gestures such as rotating knobs, swiping the screen to activate a switch (or a U-shaped gesture for a toggle switch), and touchscreen keyboards (including a study that showed that users could type at 25 wpm for a touchscreen keyboard compared with 58 wpm for a standard keyboard, with multi-touch hypothesized to improve data entry rate); multitouch gestures such as selecting a range of a line, connecting objects, and a "tap-click" gesture to select while maintaining location with another finger are also described.

A breakthrough occurred in 1991, when Pierre Wellner published a paper on his multi-touch "Digital Desk", which supported multi-finger and pinching motions.[8][9]
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-touch
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 07:53 PM   #41
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OO OO OO Tell us who it was!!!!!?????
I first saw it for a demo for the Microsoft Surface (table, not tablet) back in 2006. They had a guy sorting through photos and zooming them in and out on their prototype touchscreen displays.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 07:57 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolfactor View Post
You are right, but an invention is nothing without a good implementation. Show me one device before the iPhone that had its class of multitouch capabilities? Just one. I'm waiting...
The 1st Microsoft Surface, not only had multi touch. But multi touch for multiple users at the same time

Multi Touch dates back to the early 80s
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 07:57 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by coolfactor View Post
You are right, but an invention is nothing without a good implementation. Show me one device before the iPhone that had its class of multitouch capabilities? Just one. I'm waiting...
While I vaguely recall a couple that have been linked on here from smaller companies, it's irrelevant. This patent isn't for "a phone with a class of multitouch capabilities". Even translated into technical language, such a patent wouldn't hold up due to broadness. It's just back to the idea that commercial success should equate to ownership of the concept, which isn't really logical.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 08:02 PM   #44
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mmmm found your reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zxk_WywMTzc

few years off. BUT in the good nature of debate, Yes it would take more than 2 years to duplicate the technology from *someone* no matter how frequent the offender offends... Never saw the pinch to zoom, did see some other cool effects that aren't out there yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
I first saw it for a demo for the Microsoft Surface (table, not tablet) back in 2006. They had a guy sorting through photos and zooming them in and out on their prototype touchscreen displays.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 08:03 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolfactor View Post
You are right, but an invention is nothing without a good implementation. Show me one device before the iPhone that had its class of multitouch capabilities? Just one. I'm waiting...
Again with the "Apple did it better than the guys before so Apple should be awarded their patent"

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Originally Posted by Peppa View Post
That's not the way patenting works...
It is on MacRumors with the Armchair lawyers.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 08:04 PM   #46
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some posters appear to be tech enthusiast n00bs
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 08:09 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by mentholiptus View Post

You've got nothing but an opinion. Apple did something. They made something of value, and the lazy and entitled want it for nothing. Proof that it's the best solution out there.
Ah, the irony...
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 08:12 PM   #48
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mmmm found your reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zxk_WywMTzc

few years off. BUT in the good nature of debate, Yes it would take more than 2 years to duplicate the technology from *someone* no matter how frequent the offender offends... Never saw the pinch to zoom, did see some other cool effects that aren't out there yet.
While this isn't the one I was originally talking about, this video from May 30th, 2007 shows off some of the tech I mentioned earlier. It's a usual dry and kinda boring MS presentation, but skip ahead to around the 4 minute mark. You see a lady playing with a bunch of photos, and it includes a form of pinch to zoom.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 08:12 PM   #49
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Sounds like someone's getting paid off...
Agreed, I'm just not sure if it's Judge Koh, the jury, or both...
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 08:12 PM   #50
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Taking ownership of pinch-to-zoom or singing Happy Birthday publically is as ridiculous as patenting sit-to-poop.
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