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Old Sep 26, 2005, 10:33 AM   #101
Lord Blackadder
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Originally Posted by johnbro23
Lets say his girlfriends parents say it's ok for them to sleep in the same room. Also, lets say that you also know that your son is having sex. Lets also say that your son has been going out with this girl for 3 months. So would you let him or not?
No.
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Old Sep 26, 2005, 10:44 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by jsw
I disagree. Live under their roof, live by their rules or at least go through the hassle of trying to get away with breaking them.

If you're old enough to deal with the possible consequences of sex, you're old enough to find a place on your own. If you're not old enough to do that, be sure one of you is sterile before proceeding. I say this a week after my 17 year old cousin gave birth after both being on the pill and using a condom. It happens. If you can deal with that possibility, you're old enough to move out.

Sure, it's easy to be almost certain that nothing will happen. Tell that to my cousin.
I was thinking the same thing myself.

Have not yet read if the gf is 18 or older yet. And that is an issue. For with him being 18, there maybe statutory rape issues - not from her, but her parents.

Hope that all will go well with your cousin in the years to come.
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Old Sep 26, 2005, 10:49 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by Metatron
I chose not to comment about the situation but to say....what a sad, screwed up world we live in. Take what you may out of that.

sad that old people dont want their children having sex when they are both old enough, or sad that those two are haveing sex?
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Old Sep 26, 2005, 10:52 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by devilot76
Whew... had my volume all the way up at first. Haha, thanks for that link, it is awesome! Why can't the States air anything that convincing?!

Great commercial.

BTW, I do remember seeing a commercial like this done as a PSA here in the States. Maybe if we here in teh States still owned the airwaves as originally intended, we might have more PSA's. But that is a rant for the PF here.
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Old Sep 26, 2005, 10:57 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by devilot76
I don't think so... there is a growing number of instances when the authorities and the parents involved are 'wising' up to false claims.
False claims, yes. But what is a false claim is the question. "Unwanted" sex is a crime in most states, that is classified as rape.

Add to that depending on the ages involved, it is possible to be classified as a "sexual offender", even if it is consensual - even if you thought your partner was of legal age, or said they were of legal age.
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Old Sep 26, 2005, 11:07 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by yippy
...You can check out the age of consent for most anywhere in the world here...
Sorry if this repeats but I've just scanned through the first couple of pages and am about to go back for 3-5 but I'll agree with the general feeling so far;

Once the son is 18 the parent can't allow or not on this issue. As for the argument '..while you're under my roof...' depends on the lease, but in the example raised the guy isn't going to be under the parents roof so that's moot.

As for the site in the link above, that makes interesting reading. I particularly like the US Traveling citizens being 18. Does that mean if I were to sleep with a 17year old American girl who was on holiday here I’d be breaking the law of America without even being there? Would I get prosecuted next time I visit Disney, how would that work?

What do people think the age of consent should be? I think that if we have to put an age to it it should be no more than 16 probably 12/14 but I think a change to the way the subject is dealt with in the education system would/should also be required.
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Old Sep 26, 2005, 11:39 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by Bern
...I just don't understand this whole "he's 18 and and adult" routine. He may be 18 in the eyes of the law, but with no real life experience behind him I hardly think he can be considered mature enough to make adult decisions. What's with this whole "hey presto the law says your an adult so you your all grow up now" ??...
You may not have been but I was perfectly able to make adult decisions about my life before I was 18years old.
At 18 the law recognised that I should be capable of behaving like an adult. It is the job of parents (and society) to make sure that there children are ready to be adults by 18years, which means they should've been preparing them for these sort of decisions for years. A parent shouldn't treat a son like a child until they're 18years and then from their 18th birthday treat them as an adult.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chundles
...I walked in on mine...
As an early teen I was in the room next to mine and had to endure a night of their role-playing passion. (They’re normally quite straight laced).

Then a couple of years later when I was maybe 16/17years old I walked in on them at around 11pm in the living room. Mum sat in the arm-chair with a leg over each arm and Dad kneeling going down on her.

***shudders***

Embarrassed? Yes, all of us. Disgusted? No, couldn’t see a reason to be. Ever sat in that chair again? No ***king way! Eww.
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Old Sep 26, 2005, 11:40 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by Hector
sad that old people dont want their children having sex when they are both old enough, or sad that those two are haveing sex?

Ok, I am 47. And if the poster were my my son and living under my roof, I am not sure how I would respond, to be honest.

To today, to paraphrase IIRC Chris Rock (or maybe Eddie Murphy), in my youth a shot cured you, but this ****** kills.". In my youth we did not have AIDS or Herpes, and most anything else was cured by a shot.

It is important that parents give a consistent and clear message of expecttions. A "blast" from my "past"; My best bud (mate) and I took our gf's to his gf's parents beach house the summer we graduated (my bud's parents were there with us).

We had gone to the beach late at night' but my bud's gf expressed concern that her parents were known to take late night beach walks. So that killed any thoughts we had of beach "fun". So we went back to the house. Ended up playing a board game. My bud's gf's parents came out and suggested that we quit the game, and maybe go down to the beach instead.

Talk about mixed messages!

The key is, and we don't still know all the details, is that the poster is 18. Is he still in HS? If he is the law is vague as to the "responsibilities" his parents still have legally till he graduates. If he has graduated from HS, then I take the perspective that my Dad had when I was "under age". "Either ist is my way, or the highway".

I am saying this only because it seems that the posters parents have reservations on this sleep over (thanks Sun Baked for the heads up). I am not so sure how I would respond if these two were my son or daughter.

So glad that I don't have any children. For if I had a daughter, she might be locked up in the attic till she was 35 [joke]. And my son would have been made fearful of "going all the way". For it was such a talk by my Dad, that made me think twice before getting stupid. And this was before people thought about suing for anything and everything.
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Old Sep 26, 2005, 11:46 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by mpw
You may not have been but I was perfectly able to make adult decisions about my life before I was 18years old.
At 18 the law recognised that I should be capable of behaving like an adult. It is the job of parents (and society) to make sure that there children are ready to be adults by 18years, which means they should've been preparing them for these sort of decisions for years. A parent shouldn't treat a son like a child until they're 18years and then from their 18th birthday treat them as an adult.
Except if you want to have a drink!

But right you are.

Quote:
As an early teen I was in the room next to mine and had to endure a night of their role-playing passion. (They’re normally quite straight laced).

Then a couple of years later when I was maybe 16/17years old I walked in on them at around 11pm in the living room. Mum sat in the arm-chair with a leg over each arm and Dad kneeling going down on her.

***shudders***

Embarrassed? Yes, all of us. Disgusted? No, couldn’t see a reason to be. Ever sat in that chair again? No ***king way! Eww.
I am still thinking that I was found under a cabbage leaf here.

It is hard for me to imagine my parents having sex. Though I find comfort in that my parents sent i=us to relative in our pre-teen and teen years, so they might have had some "fun".
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Old Sep 26, 2005, 11:54 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by mpw
What do people think the age of consent should be? I think that if we have to put an age to it it should be no more than 16 probably 12/14 but I think a change to the way the subject is dealt with in the education system would/should also be required.
Wow, 12 seems a bit young.

Kids should have a level of respect for their parents that keeps them from having sex if their parents feel they should not - if an 18-year old feels that he can't obey his parents wishes how can he ask them to support him by providing him with a house to live in etc. etc.

I think that having sex against the wishes of a parent is disrespectful to a degree. If you are on your own and self-sufficient then by all means you should operate on your own discretion. But if you are a teenager living at home you have an obligation to accede to your parents wishes in matters (such as this) that can have far-reaching conequences. They invested a lot of time and made sacrifices to raise you; How much value to do place on a request of theirs?

Personally I don't think most 18 year olds are emotionally mature enough to maintain a sexual relationship - they tend to be too self centered and shortsighted about what they are doing. I know several couples that got together at a very young age, some on purpose and others as the result of an "accident" child. None of them, I think, are very happy with the decision they made.
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Old Sep 26, 2005, 11:57 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Chip NoVaMac
...Ok, I am 47....to paraphrase IIRC Chris Rock (or maybe Eddie Murphy), in my youth a shot cured you, but this ****** kills.". In my youth we did not have AIDS or Herpes...
If you're 47 you were ~23years old when AIDS hit the headlines. When did your 'youth' end? Oh and I'm pretty sure herpes was about, but it shows how bad sex education either state or parental must've been back then!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip NoVaMac
...Except if you want to have a drink!...
Again it seems society differs between the US and many other places. I could legally drink in restaurants with my parents and I think it's legal to drink from 16years when you're having a meal with at least one person over 18years at the discretion of the restaurant although most won't serve to protect their own license.
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Old Sep 26, 2005, 12:08 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by mpw
Again it seems society differs between the US and many other places. I could legally drink in restaurants with my parents and I think it's legal to drink from 16years when you're having a meal with at least one person over 18years at the discretion of the restaurant although most won't serve to protect their own license.

In the US, we seem to be really uptight about stuff.

Our sex-ed is highly abstinence-based, IF YOU HAVE IT. (I'm a senior, and I've only had the talk in fifth grade "your body is changing" That was the closest thing I ever got to sex ed.. and it wasn't really. YEEHAW TEXAS!!)

it's just... weird. <snarky>I blame canada. </snarky>

When I was in washington state, my dad went into a bar to grab a smoke and a drink (OK, it sounds like abandonment, but it wasn't I just live with his vices.. *sigh*) they wouldn't even LET ME IN. I told the woman several times "I don't want to drink or smoke, and I probably won't once I hit the age at which I legally can"
So, she had to ESCORT ME TO MY FATHER. Because "OMG!1!! (at the time) ~14 YEAR OLD AROUND BOOZE!11! SHE'LL GET DRUNK IMMEDIATELY BECAUSE EVERYONE LOVES 2 DRINK!"
Argh.
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Old Sep 26, 2005, 12:09 PM   #113
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ooh i forgot another little story of mine.

me and my girlfriend (we were going out 2 years and 4-5 months at this point) went on holiday with college to Barcelona. we had both just turned 18, me in January my girlfriend just a few days before we left in February. the college said we couldn't share a room! so instead im stuck in a room with this effin arsewipe scally who just got drunk the whole holiday and smoked in the room. what was utterly brilliant was that he actually stole our room card so i couldn't get back in and he went out clubbing with a load of people, with the intention of bringing this girl back to our room. unfortunately he forgot how resourceful i was and i made it seem like i was mugged in the street and they stole my room card. the room card number was changed and i got a new card the look on his face when he came back and his card didn't work but thats just part of the story.

thing is we were 18 yet the college said we needed our parents permission to share a room. hell we weren't even having sex back then! we're not having sex now *waiting for the moment like*

parents and guardians in general need to bloody realize that not every 18 year old is an alcoholic drug taking sex maniac. or every student. but thats another story
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Old Sep 26, 2005, 12:09 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Lord Blackadder
…Kids should have a level of respect for their parents that keeps them from having sex if their parents feel they should not… …I think that having sex against the wishes of a parent is disrespectful to a degree….
I agree. I’d make it legal for people to consent to sex at a younger age but I also feel that parents need to retain the authority to withhold their consent for a 16year old to go out if they can’t trust their child to behave responsibly. It takes trust, respect and responsibility on the part of both parent and child. I think the subject needs to be more openly discussed, say my 14year old son wants to consent to sex with his 14year old girlfriend, there shouldn’t be any reason that I can’t call up the girl’s parents to talk it through before I let him out to a party etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Blackadder
…Personally I don't think most 18 year olds are emotionally mature enough to maintain a sexual relationship - they tend to be too self centered and shortsighted about what they are doing. I know several couples that got together at a very young age, some on purpose and others as the result of an "accident" child. None of them, I think, are very happy with the decision they made…
I too know couples who’ve been together since a young age having been ‘caught out’ and who aren’t happy with their situation. However I know some that are very happy and some that are unhappy having waited until they were older and planned a family but have grown apart for other reasons etc. etc.
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Old Sep 26, 2005, 12:59 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by johnbro23
Lets say his girlfriends parents say it's ok for them to sleep in the same room. Also, lets say that you also know that your son is having sex. Lets also say that your son has been going out with this girl for 3 months. So would you let him or not?
i just skimmed through the thread, but as many said, I think your parents should let you and your girlfriend decide (or "one should let the kids decide"). Just please use condoms.

If they already told you 'no', than I wouldn't go in an all-out war with them, unless you are ready to take off (something you would most likely regret afterward). Consider this is probably very awkward for them too, and I am not sure they would necessarily wanted to be filled in with the details. As long you clear that both of you two are informed and know about precautions and such, that should be enough.
Of course if they are very catholic, this could be an added layer of difficulty, but I am sure they would rather not become grandparents this early, no matter what the priests say.

enjoy.
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Old Sep 26, 2005, 01:00 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by mpw
If you're 47 you were ~23years old when AIDS hit the headlines. When did your 'youth' end? Oh and I'm pretty sure herpes was about, but it shows how bad sex education either state or parental must've been back then!
It is a matter of historical perspective. Remember Reagan never fully acknowledged the true scope of the of the AIDS epidemic. By some accounts "youth" ends at 25. By popular literature this is the age that we have the "knowledge". "experience", and "wisdom" to make "informed" decisions.

Given the "knowledge" over the years. why do you think that a musical like "Rent", could even hope o make it it the movies in November?

Quote:
Again it seems society differs between the US and many other places. I could legally drink in restaurants with my parents and I think it's legal to drink from 16years when you're having a meal with at least one person over 18years at the discretion of the restaurant although most won't serve to protect their own license.
I am old enough to remember being able to drink at 18. Some studies I have seen over the years have cast doubt as the effectiveness of 18 being the drinking age.

For if you are of age to raise a gun, then you should be the age to raise a pint.
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Old Sep 26, 2005, 01:26 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by johnbro23
Lets say his girlfriends parents say it's ok for them to sleep in the same room. Also, lets say that you also know that your son is having sex. Lets also say that your son has been going out with this girl for 3 months. So would you let him or not?

First response: Hell ya I would! (Pat on his back)

Second response: Sounds like someone doesn't know how to be a parent. You obviously don't feel comfortable with him going, so don't let him!

Your the parent! What you say goes, whether he is 18 or not.
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Old Sep 26, 2005, 02:05 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by njstaffer
First response: Hell ya I would! (Pat on his back)

Second response: Sounds like someone doesn't know how to be a parent. You obviously don't feel comfortable with him going, so don't let him!

Your the parent! What you say goes, whether he is 18 or not.

You failed to note the "homework" that Sub Baked did. It seems that the poster was not the "adult'; but rather the 18 yo.
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Old Sep 26, 2005, 04:15 PM   #119
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would it make any difference if he stayed there just in the afternoon ?
or if he was visiting a male friend ? he could be bisexual or whatever

and for the "under the roof" argument: i give you a hint it's the girlfriends parents roof not yours

is it possible to prevent "them having sex" ? as said before: not really

and still i haven't heard a reason why he shouldn't have sex ? he is old enough isn't he ?

at 18 i knew what the risks were .. i already knew at 15 as well .. i doubt my parents would have had a problem with staying at a girls house (i didn't do it since i had a girlfriend untill later) and they wouldn't have been able to stop me either

it's not the problem of the child that the parents perhaps had bad experiences or are afraid of the idea "of the little boy growing up" and making his own experiences without the parents
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Old Sep 26, 2005, 07:13 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by greatdevourer
If you think about it, you don't really have that much say in the matter.
I may be in the minority, but the rule around here is that you obey whoever pays the bills. That means that if you're still living under your parents' roof (or you're depending on them to pay the tuition, room, and board), then you live by their rules.

If I knew my kid was having sex with a girl he'd dated for three months, I'd have a problem with it. By that point, though, there's not much you can do shy of chaining him to his bed and her to hers.
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Old Sep 26, 2005, 08:01 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by ChrisBrightwell
I may be in the minority, but the rule around here is that you obey whoever pays the bills. That means that if you're still living under your parents' roof (or you're depending on them to pay the tuition, room, and board), then you live by their rules.
.
Same rule here, under a different saying - my way or the highway.
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Old Sep 26, 2005, 08:07 PM   #122
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If he's still living under your roof, you have ALL the say. If you don't feel he should be doing it, then it's YOUR choice. Yes, he's 18, but if he's still dependent on you it's your rules, not his. Now, there's nothing to say that he will follow them, but he should abide by your wishes. Personally, I think this is the wrong path for any person at age 18 to be going down, but I'm not the norm (I still plan on waiting until marriage; not because of what my parents think or my church thinks but what I think).

Keep in mind this is coming from someone who will be turning 18 in two months.
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Old Sep 26, 2005, 08:31 PM   #123
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If he's 18 and you haven't had a good talk with him about each of your perspectives on sex, then you've either done something wrong in those 18 years, or you're a procrastinator. You can only get what you want if he wants what you want. And if he doesn't want to listen to you now, it's too late.
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Old Sep 26, 2005, 09:59 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpw
If you're 47 you were ~23years old when AIDS hit the headlines. When did your 'youth' end? Oh and I'm pretty sure herpes was about, but it shows how bad sex education either state or parental must've been back then!.
Yes, diseases have been around for a long time, but keep in mind that diseases change over time. Part of the problem nowadays is, despite better medicinal technology, there are more dangerous disease. Why? Antibiotics as we know them haven't been around long. When first discovered, they were considered a miracle and used to treat everything and anything. They were even used preventatively. This resulted in the decimation of strains of disease that couldn't protect themselves, but left resistant strains which were free to reproduce and grow exponentially. Soon enough, you have an entire disease that is resistant to antibiotics.

If you've ever wondered why doctors require you to finish a prescription even if you feel better, this is the reason. If you don't, you potentially leave resistant strains to carry on. Same reason doctors today don't use antibiotics unless necessary and even then, very specifically targeted ones as generalized antibiotics result in the same problem. Today, a simple staphylococcus infection can kill you. Thirty years ago, you more than likely could have cured it with a few days of antibiotics. (some more info)

Another major problem occurs with viruses as even today there is very little that can be done to combat them, not just HIV, but any virus partially due to the fact that they simply don't conform to the rules of "life" as we know it. Besides which, they can do things that no other living organism can (such as create DNA from RNA). There are methods that can slow viruses or even cause dormancy in them, but for the most part, there is no way to kill a virus.

So yes, diseases have been around a long time, but you can't necessarily compare an STD today to an STD thirty years ago in the same way you can't take last years' flu vaccine for this year's flu season.

Sorry for the aside, just wanted to clarify a bit.
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Old Sep 27, 2005, 12:54 AM   #125
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As others have mentioned, if you're worried about him having sex because he's staying the night he's probably having sex at other times of the day. If you don't want him staying over, tell him.

Either way, buy him some condoms. At least he's getting exercise.
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