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Old Dec 21, 2012, 02:43 PM   #26
Sue De Nimes
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Originally Posted by Thunderhawks View Post
I don't even think they were trying to side step the law intentionally.

They just didn't know or thought their way of explaining/applying it was sufficient and their Italian subsidiary people in charge weren't smart enough to pick up this discrepancy, especially if they have Americans working there.

The devil is in the details:-)
This is the second fine for the same offence. If they were not trying to be silly buggers they would have clarified their advertising copy.

So either Apple are (a) Incompetent or (b) WERE trying to sidestep the law.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 02:44 PM   #27
polycarbon
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I wonder if Italy even know what Apple Care offers. It's not just a "warranty". Idiots.
I wonder if the smart genius "OtherJesus" knows what Apple Care offers. It's not just "warranty", but in Apple's own words "limited warranty". Idiot, please enlighten us!
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 02:46 PM   #28
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 02:50 PM   #29
tech4all
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Originally Posted by OtherJesus View Post
I wonder if Italy even know what Apple Care offers. It's not just a "warranty". Idiots.
lol calling Italy "idiots"... don't take it so personally. It's Apple's problem, not yours. They don't need you to stick up for them.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 02:50 PM   #30
macsmurf
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Originally Posted by Glideslope View Post
Are you insane? You want APPL under $10 a share by the 12/31/12?
Hey, I'm sure the current owner will give them a great price. All it needs is a bit of rebranding. Change the name to iTaly, slap some rounded corners on that sucker and you're golden.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 02:51 PM   #31
charlieegan3
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I got shot down in flames the last time I suggested this but...

I think there should be a separate legal 'blog' that covers all of these disputes.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 02:55 PM   #32
coolfactor
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Originally Posted by TheIguana View Post
The problem is their graphics online, they market as only having a 1 year warranty when in fact they are required by law to have a 2 year warranty. Just look at their AppleCare page on their European sites.

This goes more to Apple following the EU's rules than the EU educating the public of the law.
It's confusing. On that same page you reference, they link to this page:

http://www.apple.com/ie/legal/statutory-warranty/

It's odd that AppleCare in EU would very blatantly be less (one year vs. two years) than consumer law. So which is it?

The one distinction they make is that the two-year warranty is for defects present when consumers take possession of a purchase, whereas AppleCare's one-year warranty applies to defects after the consumer takes possession. How they determine which applies is still a question. Why would a consumer knowingly purchase a defective product?
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 03:01 PM   #33
DerSnap
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Germany is much similar. However the great thing about education is they teach you to read, and hopefully think to understand this.

I for one think a company with profits well in the billions should be obligated to follow the laws that are set force in the market they agree to sell in.

Good job!

Its got frick all to do with socialism and everything to do with accountability!





Quote:
Originally Posted by Piggie View Post
I live in the UK and I don't think any shops tell you anything about your rights.
Quite the opposite in fact, they lie to customers faces about the warranty.

The shop staff are on BIG commisions to sell extended warranties on ad many products as they can and they never want to tell you something it covered for longer than the old year.

Apple don't have a leg to stand on even after 1 year, 18 months of probably a couple of years or more in the UK as they sell a "Premium" product and it would be "Expected" to last a good length of time, even 3 or 4 years, if you bought a high end iMac I think they would be forced to fix if for free.

But would they ever tell the typical consumer that in a UK Apple store. Of course not, that's the last thing they want to tell customers.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 03:04 PM   #34
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Rotten apple
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 03:08 PM   #35
pearvsapple
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 03:48 PM   #36
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I wonder how closely other countries consumer protection agencies are following this...

I'd very much love to see the ACCC take Apple Australia to task over AppleCare, and over their refusal to repair hardware that has failed outside their 12 month standard warranty.

Admittedly, I've not had any such dealings since my eMac died in 2006, so maybe Apple Australia have picked up their game, especially since the new ACL came into effect last year.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 03:57 PM   #37
marclondon
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Originally Posted by Piggie View Post
Apple don't have a leg to stand on even after 1 year, 18 months of probably a couple of years or more in the UK as they sell a "Premium" product and it would be "Expected" to last a good length of time, even 3 or 4 years, if you bought a high end iMac I think they would be forced to fix if for free.
That's right - it's not about whether a product develops a fault or was shipped with a fault - it's whether it could reasonably expect to last for considerably longer than a year, which is obviously the case. The critical point is:

"So, you may need to prove that the fault was not down to ordinary wear and tear or damage you caused, and that the product (or a component) should have lasted longer than it did."

See: http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-righ...t/your-rights/

I wouldn't bother if it was just a hard drive but I would certainly try if the motherboard or screen failed at up to three to four years.

I'm in the UK too and have twice insisted on Bose replacing a pair of expensive headphones well after the 'warranty' (a replacement pair also failed). The Sale of Goods Act is powerful if you insist on your rights.

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Old Dec 21, 2012, 03:57 PM   #38
sofila
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OtherJesus

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don't know who wins gold medal for stupid racist comments.
Probably your knowledge of what lies out of your garden is just some old kinder-garden reminiscence
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 04:04 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by macsmurf View Post
Hey, I'm sure the current owner will give them a great price. All it needs is a bit of rebranding. Change the name to iTaly, slap some rounded corners on that sucker and you're golden.
LMAO Just literally spit my coffee all over the keyboard.










....now, is that covered under warranty?










Last edited by OllyW; Dec 21, 2012 at 04:51 PM. Reason: quoted deleted post
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 04:05 PM   #40
H2SO4
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Originally Posted by macsmurf View Post
Hey, I'm sure the current owner will give them a great price. All it needs is a bit of rebranding. Change the name to iTaly, slap some rounded corners on that sucker and you're golden.
This is one of the top 10 funniest things I've read this year. It did actually make me laugh out loud.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 04:06 PM   #41
Dr. Scott
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$260k? Pocket change to Apple.
"Here let Uncle Tom reach into his wallet and see what he's got." <<hands over cash and says>> "Thats all? My weekends cost more than that."
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 04:09 PM   #42
writingdevil
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Originally Posted by rmwebs View Post
LMAO Just literally spit my coffee all over the keyboard.










....now, is that covered under warranty?











----------



Ahh people who have no clue how EU law works.

The law Apple violated was set by the EU...not Italy. It just happened to be in Italy that it was violated.

(and FYI - not excusing Italy or anything here - just setting you straight on the law that Apple broke)
Do understand the law is EU wide. Also understand where Italy puts its legal integrity. Apple - = Evil, Belusconi = Hero
I wish I could claim this as my observation, but it's second hand from (shh) Italians (who wish to remain nameless, less they be headless, or end up with a horses head in their bed)
My, my, my.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 04:37 PM   #43
Chlloret
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I had an argument with an employee in the London (Oxford Street) Apple store when buying my last mac from there. He was adamant that I would only be covered for a year without Applecare, and refused to acknowledge that there is a 2 year warranty as per EU law.

Apple dont want to acknowledge it as they make a crap load of money from warranties - everywhere does this.

Heck if you search around the forums, you'll see more than a few cases where someone in the EU has had a warranty repair refused in the 2nd year for not having Applecare.
And that is correct. The 2year European Waranty is crap and not worth anything. The law gives you 6month, six month that are garanteed. After that, the next 18month, YOU have to prove that the fault was there at the day of purchase. Good luck. First question is, why did you wait 6 month to make a claim?
That got absolutely nothing to do with the Apple warranty or Apple care. Apple already gives a full year full warranty, not at all normal in Europe as everybody refers to the "2 year European law" but that is just BS. Try to get ANYTHING repaired after 6 month.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpat View Post
I love it when fanboys bash an entire country for enforcing a law that's beneficial to customers.
No, it is not. Quite the opposite. You THINK you get two years warranty under European or Italian law, you do not. You DO get one year with Apple, or three years with Apple care. You get 6 month with Europe, after that 18month of hassle.
If Apple would really implement that law, it would be quite bad for costumers as they would loose half a year no care warranty.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 04:37 PM   #44
DerSnap
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Originally Posted by Chlloret View Post
And that is correct. The 2year European Waranty is crap and not worth anything. The law gives you 6month, six month that are garanteed. After that, the next 18month, YOU have to prove that the fault was there at the day of purchase. Good luck. First question is, why did you wait 6 month to make a claim?
That got absolutely nothing to do with the Apple warranty or Apple care. Apple already gives a full year full warranty, not at all normal in Europe as everybody refers to the "2 year European law" but that is just BS. Try to get ANYTHING repaired after 6 month.
and here is the kicker!
Prove it!

always the same problem in EU, never mind the DE.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 04:38 PM   #45
Thunderhawks
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Originally Posted by Sue De Nimes View Post
This is the second fine for the same offence. If they were not trying to be silly buggers they would have clarified their advertising copy.

So either Apple are (a) Incompetent or (b) WERE trying to sidestep the law.
I select a)

Most American businesses do not know European laws well enough to watch their shops.

These kind of things are always put off for later.

In any case their Italian legal department and lawyers should not get any Christmas gifts.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 04:46 PM   #46
Michaelgtrusa
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Much more to this kind of practice worldwide.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 04:48 PM   #47
F1 Fan
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Originally Posted by iMikeT View Post
*Note: We (the USA) are #1 at failing to be on par with the rest of the world's first world countries in providing for our own and having the balls to regulate corporations.
Funny, people here (UK) same the same thing about us... The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 04:51 PM   #48
Chlloret
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Originally Posted by coolfactor View Post

The one distinction they make is that the two-year warranty is for defects present when consumers take possession of a purchase, whereas AppleCare's one-year warranty applies to defects after the consumer takes possession. How they determine which applies is still a question. Why would a consumer knowingly purchase a defective product?
Yup, you got it. That is exactly the point. After six month YOU have to PROVE that the fault was there at the time of purchase. Good luck. That European warranty is not worth the paper it is written on. If Apple want's to, they could just get rid of there (much better but not wanted) warranty and just give the European one. They would save tons of money.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 04:52 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Kaibelf View Post
Oh for the love of GOD. Can't the EU inform their OWN citizen about such a major law? Instead they have their hands out because Apple isn't doing it for them? Apple's not lying by offering an extended warranty, and there needs to be a limit before people should expect to at least do SOMETHING to be aware of the laws in their own country.
For some people, it's a case of apple never do wrong isn't it?

As the poster below said...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus-k View Post
Apple claimed there was only one year of warranty if you didn't get Applecare, which of course was completely wrong.
Clearly in this case, APPLE IS WRONG, and therefore deserves that fine.

Wish people would stop defending apple no matter what they do. It's so blinkered and biased. I really like apple, but it doesn't mean they're always right.

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Old Dec 21, 2012, 04:54 PM   #50
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