Google/Motorola Developing Flagship Phone to Compete with Apple and Samsung

[KnightWRX]

Originally Posted by SockRolid

Bingo. The impending Samsung fork is the only reason for Google to build their own Motorola smartphone.
Because without their own phone, the vanilla Android release would be completely ignored.

Samsung has already done what you propose, only it's not taking off and it's not been their main strategy :

bada - Samsung's Smartphone platform

Obviously, Samsung banks on Android's benefits rather than trying to go at it alone. Forking Android at this point only results in them having to maintain a whole ecosystem seperate from Google's rather than profiting from Google's services as a OEM of Android.

What would be the real benefits of a fork of Android over just using their own existing Bada platform ?

None. More FUD spread by the "iOS is the only god OS" crowd.

[thekev]

Originally Posted by KnightWRX

None. More FUD spread by the "iOS is the only god OS" crowd.

Looking at who you responded to there, I've never seen him post anything other than baseless rants full of technical errors. I expected much of the thread to go this way. It was either going to be "Motorola only makes crap" or some random comment about a Samsung revolt as if business decisions carry the emotions of a (partially) rabid fan base.

Also I'm interested in seeing what they do with this. I figured they'd do something with Motorola, even if they assign it Google branding.

[Eric E. Schmidt]

Originally Posted by samcraig

If true, this could be interesting...

Google reportedly poaches key Samsung marketing VP for Motorola
http://www.engadget.com/2012/12/21/g...from-motorola/

when the xphone hits the new mob of sheep are galaxy owners.

[brdeveloper]

Mini Moog

[SlCKB0Y]

Originally Posted by Technarchy

LTE is prevalent

And as it typical, when someone confronts you with actual sources as to how wrong you are, you disappear, nowhere to be found.

You still didn't address that graph I posted which totally contradicts your claims as to the massive uptake of LTE.

At least I guess you realise when you're out of your depth in order to cut your loses. I can't say the same about a lot of people here.

[adder7712]

Originally Posted by irDigital0l

But now its lacking innovation...

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LOL, I really want to see this happen.

Get Samsung to create its own OS.

That would certainly be interesting.

They already have that. It's called Bada and Tizen.

[einmusiker]

Originally Posted by newagemac

The current Nexus 4 is a joke compared to the iPhone 5. There isn't really a competitor to the iPhone 5 out there right now yet.

Thats not even close to true

[xofruitcake]

Originally Posted by KnightWRX

Samsung has already done what you propose, only it's not taking off and it's not been their main strategy :

bada - Samsung's Smartphone platform

Obviously, Samsung banks on Android's benefits rather than trying to go at it alone. Forking Android at this point only results in them having to maintain a whole ecosystem seperate from Google's rather than profiting from Google's services as a OEM of Android.

What would be the real benefits of a fork of Android over just using their own existing Bada platform ?

None. More FUD spread by the "iOS is the only god OS" crowd.

When you control the OS, you control the default search engine, the mail server, the web experience, the app store, the music/movie purchase/rental. You basically control the commerce platform on the mobile device and it is worth a lot of money. Apple is notoriously able to extract money from everyone who want a piece of the mobile commerce on IOS platform. Notice Baidu will share ads revenue with Apple on IOS. Amazon use Bing as the search engine in Kindle Fire HD, wonder how much Microsoft has to pay for that right?

You also you can control the geolocator and other means to collect user information and what they do. The information collectively will help companies to structure targeted advertisement. It is at least part of the reason why Apple want to do their own IOS map. It is very big money decision and Amazon decide to cross the bridge. We don't know who else in Android world will make the same decision.

From Google perspective, it is better for them to be the major hardware Android vendors letting Samsung or any other vendors in making those decision on their own. And an additional benefit is that they can pull Android hardware price down to the point that no one can make much money out of it. It is fine for Google if Motorola just break even but sell a lot of Android devices. The low price will help Android sell more devices and allow Google to make money on the advertising on those unit. Notice that Nexus 4, 7, and 10 are all very low in light of their capability and Google will loss money selling those at the current price. But it establish a price point that other Android makers must meet..At some point, Google will drive the weaker vendors away and the remainder vendors will barely survive.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...ne-search.html

Baidu Inc. (BIDU) said Apple Inc. (AAPL) will be entitled to a share of advertising sales after the Chinese company’s search engine was added as part of a software upgrade for iPhones in China.
The revenue-sharing agreement with Apple follows similar accords between Baidu and manufacturers of handsets that use Google Inc. (GOOG)’s Android operating system, Wang Jing, vice president at Beijing-based Baidu, said in a phone interview yesterday. He declined to disclose the commercial terms.
Apple said this week it will offer Baidu’s search engine as an option for iPhone and iPad customers and add Chinese-language support for its Siri voice technology, as the world’s most valuable company tailors its products for Chinese consumers. Baidu, which fields about 80 percent of China’s Web searches, is prepared to incur costs to add smartphone users by offering services such as music streaming for free, Wang said.

[SlCKB0Y]

Originally Posted by xofruitcake

Google is losing money on Nexus 4, Nexus 7, and Nexus 10.

What is the price per unit for Google to produce these?

You must know this in order to make this statement .. right???

[G51989]

Originally Posted by Technarchy

Apple doesn't seem to have a problem addressing the matter...

Apple is also in fewer markets and countries than Android Phones...

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Originally Posted by xofruitcake

But Motorola don't have to make money just like Google is losing money on Nexus 4, Nexus 7, and Nexus 10.

Source. Or your full of it.

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Originally Posted by yanksrock100

Is the current Nexus 4 not to compete with the iPhone?

No, its a developer/reference phone.

I think that the Nexus line is like the Surface line for Microsoft, I think they are just for the OEMs to have some kind of bar.

[KnightWRX]

Originally Posted by xofruitcake

When you control the...

Your rant has nothing to do with my post or what I was responding to. I stopped reading half way through.

[Karma*Police]

Google has to recoup that $12B somehow. And they'd be foolish to think that Samsung isn't working on forking Android, especially after they purchased Motorola and Samsung stated publicly that they would focus on their own OS.

Android could turn out to be a Pyrrhic victory for Google. I still think they would've been better off remaining platform agnostic to get the most eyeballs. Now, instead of just having one enemy (MS), they've made an enemy of Apple, Amazon and pretty soon, possibly their biggest OEM.

[KnightWRX]

Originally Posted by Karma*Police

Google has to recoup that $12B somehow. And they'd be foolish to think that Samsung isn't working on forking Android, especially after they purchased Motorola and Samsung stated publicly that they would focus on their own OS.

What benefit does Samsung get from forking Android ? They lose the whole Google ecosystem and gain... a OS. Something they already have in Bada. Why fork Android ?

[Kanunu]

For years I bought Motorola cell phones in a perhaps misplaced desire to "buy American." For years they quit working prematurely. I made the switch to an iMac because I got tired of PC's that failed. I also owned a Motorola Xoom that just quit working overnight and went back to my second iPad. I liked the Android system on my Xoom but if Google wants to compete they need to up the hardware quality.

Having moved overseas, and being totally frustrated with Apple's restrictive policies in the iTunes store, I will probably never buy an iPhone but as of today, I would opt for Samsung over Motorola.

[RedCroissant]

Originally Posted by T-R-S

Google saying something doesn't make it so

http://www.iclarified.com/26364/appl...est-share-ever

From what I saw in that link, Google saying something is based on the facts; that Apple captures 53% of the U.S. smartphone market. Even on the chart under the US section, it shows iOS as having 53.3% of the market. The title of the article doesn't say anything about world market share which should be considerably less(as it is) due to Apple being an American company that focuses primarily on U.S. markets. Brazil should see an increase in iOS adoption as should Great Britain.

[AppleScruff1]

Motorola phones generally have the best rf of the mainstream phones. A Motorola will work better in fringe areas than the iPhone or any Samsung.

[Vegastouch]

Originally Posted by RedCroissant

Wasn't the Google Nexus a great phone when it came out? I only remember hearing good things about it and the fact that it was the only device to run pure Android. I thought that made it even better. Maybe I'm confused.

I personally think this is a great move on their part because they now have a major phone manufacturer that can manufacture numerous lines of phones that are running the latest OS version and that would also make Google's plans to take more control of the OS more feasible.

I wouldn't be surprised if Google started marketing the new phone that way, and maybe even leading to the decrease in fragmentation.

I could be completely confused though considering I have only used a couple of Android devices recently(that were so cheaply made), and due to me being an iPhone owner and user of multiple iOS devices.

The Nexus phone line has never been set to be one of the best phones. It has never had the best specs and it isnt advertized. Its always been a developer phone but has caught on by consumers but they still dont advertize it and you can only get a Nexus 4 from the Google Play Store or at T-Mmobile and not all T-Mobile stores have them. None here in Las Vegas do.

[Bahroo]

Originally Posted by rmwebs

Clearly you've not used Android 4.

Whilst Android 1, 2 and 3 (to a lesser degree) had a lot of issues (which were mostly down to UI inconsistencies and incompatibilities caused by crap hardware), 4 is a heck of a lot better. The S3 is a very, VERY popular phone, and actually performs a fair bit better than the iPhone 5.

Im actually extremely curious as to how you think the S3 performs better then the iPhone 5. Games on iPhone 5 and even the 4S run so much better and smoother then any other Android phone, and iOS has been extremely fluid and speedy for a long time. Web browsing is quicker on the i5 and the browser on iOS is still unmatched by any other mobile platform. It is obvious that iOS is a much more efficient OS in terms of utilizing the hardware given. But in no way am I saying the S3 is slow, its actually a quick phone but a iPhone just feels and runs smoother then any Android phone

[Vegastouch]

Originally Posted by newagemac

And as predicted, Android starts to eat itself. I knew Samsung completely dominating the other Android manufacturers and taking the little profit there is in Android with Google not seeing much at all wasn't going to last long. My bet is this aggression by Google against Samsung is going to hasten Samsung forking Android into its own OS. This is going to be fun to watch.

Samsung has a OS they are working on called Tizen.

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Originally Posted by Eric E. Schmidt

when the xphone hits the new mob of sheep are galaxy owners.

Eh, i dont know. Im not excited for that phone. Never been a fan of Motorola so it doesnt really peak my interest right now anyways.

[xofruitcake]

Originally Posted by SlCKB0Y

What is the price per unit for Google to produce these?

You must know this in order to make this statement .. right???

heh heh.. google a little bit and you will figure out those cost... The BOM for Nexus 7 range from 151 to 170ish. And then you start adding design cost, marketing cost, warranty cost, profit to distributor (Walmart, Target,....), inventory cost, shipping , profit to contract manufacturer like Foxconn, part loss during assembly, rework cost etc. etc.. Do you still think Nexus 7 make money for Google?

You can also looks at it the other way, Apple projected 36% gross margin for 4Q12 and Ipad mini is "significantly below corporate average" (and Gross margin is before marketing, warranty, design cost). In the Samsung trial, Apple document showed that they make 23 to 32% gross margin in Ipad 3. Ipad mini is much worse than Ipad 3. Ipad mini will be lucky to have gross margin in the high teen. So an Ipad mini with cost about $260ish before marketing cost, design cost and warranty cost.. Can GOOG/ASUS build Nexus 7 cheaper than Apple? Appl build about 43M Iphone+Ipad last Q while ASUS build about 2.3M unit of Nexus 7 for Google?

http://allthingsd.com/20120711/googl...eardown-finds/

That’s the impression that analysts at the research house IHS iSuppli got when they did just that: They took a Nexus 7 apart in order to see what components are inside, and to estimate what each of them costs. The early verdict, shared exclusively with AllThingsD, is that the low-end eight gigabyte model of the Nexus 7, which sells for $199, costs $151.75 to build.

http://www.morningstar.com/earnings/...=AAPL&pindex=5

The iPad Mini has the full iPad experience and we priced it aggressively at $329, delivering incredible value to our customers. Its gross margin is significantly below the corporate average.

http://www.electronista.com/articles...ng.court.docs/

According to recently unsealed documents from this coming Monday's Apple-versus-Samsung trial, the Cupertino-based company earned gross margins of 49 to 58 percent on US iPhone sales between April 2010 and the end of March 2012. The iPad had much lower margin between October 2010 and the end of March 2012, seeing profits between 23 and 32 percent. Apple has declined to comment on the court filing.

[Bahroo]

Originally Posted by rmwebs

Here's the deal.

iOS is locked to a select few pieces of hardware, so as with the OS X line, Apple dont have to support as many platforms - that much we can both agree on.

The Android development team EOL'd 2.3 - so nobody should be making handsets that use it anymore.

Google has also stopped issuing GAPPS licenses to any developer still using 2.3.

Obviously you will always get cheap nockoff phones that will use low powered hardware, and try and cram Android onto it - they will perform terribly.

Now, if we look at "new Android", it's designed for higher end phones, so the likes of the S3, the Nexus 4, and the upcoming 'X' phone.

The idea is that yes, whilst older android builds tend to be badly fragmented and slow (due to crippled hardware), this is being resolved by only allowing GAPPS licensing on high-end hardware that is capable of running Android 4.x

So yes. Android in its newer form does "just work" and "just works" pretty damn well.

Maybe its not for you - that's fine. But the pathetic "its android, its ****, its slow, its a ripoff" comments are being made by 14 year olds without a clue. As someone who uses both iOS and Android on a daily basis for development, I feel I've got a slightly better view of both operating systems than someone who's spent 99% of their smartphone time on an iPhone.

Having used both operating systems both are good, and both have problems. Neither one of them comes across as being a stand out winner, but with the likes of the S3 on Android 4.x, it is actually a faster, and more accessible phone than the iPhone.

I'm not going to take idiotic "fandroid" or "fanboy" views here, and I'm certainly not going to give childish people the satisfaction of a pointless debate - I'm just talking from my own personal opinion having spent a hell of a lot of time using BOTH operating systems.

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In my opinion, 4.x is a better OS right now when compared to iOS6. This is based on extensive use of both operating systems. Not a quick look at a review and a 'mate told me it was crap' type of comments from people I dont know.

Well you certainly are entitled to your opinion, in my case the iPhone 5 is faster then my old S3 according to a few tests I did just out of curiosity. The browser, and apps all opened faster on the i5 and with better animations. Lets not even talk about how much better and smoother games are on the iPhone 5 and even the 4S when compared to the competition

[xofruitcake]

Originally Posted by KnightWRX

Your rant has nothing to do with my post or what I was responding to. I stopped reading half way through.

Obviously, Samsung banks on Android's benefits rather than trying to go at it alone. Forking Android at this point only results in them having to maintain a whole ecosystem seperate from Google's rather than profiting from Google's services as a OEM of Android.

What would be the real benefits of a fork of Android over just using their own existing Bada platform ?

Didn't you ask what is the real benefit of forking an Android? It is all about money 8-)

[Vegastouch]

Originally Posted by hljoo8

Android fragmentation keeps heading in the worse direction. Companies WILL fork Android, its only a question of time.

Forks can go either direction, for the good or for the bad. I have been on both sides of it, I have had my projects forked and I have forked other projects.

In the end, you always get a different product that is rarely compatible with each other.

Its no worse. In fact i think it has gotten better. Apple is heading that way too so that excuse will go by the wayside here soon.

[sunspot42]

There's a reason why Google has to make a big push into the Android phone (and tablet) hardware business: Amazon. Amazon is prepping its own Android phone, based on its own fork of Android. These phones will not be using Google's services. They'll be cheap, heavily subsidized, sold thru Amazon's website and most likely hooked into Microsoft's web services (for which MS will be paying Amazon hefty amounts).

Samesung won't be able to compete with this, and Google knows it. Just look at how much better Amazon is doing in the tablet market than Samsung.

I have no doubt that Amazon will be causing all sorts of trouble for Apple in the not-too-distant future. Samsung? They're a hardware manufacturer, can't do software worth a damn, and are about to reach their market peak.

If Google wants to continue to have any influence over mobile, they've got to get into the hardware business and start pumping out phones at or below cost, trying to make up the difference on subsidies, subscription services and ad revenue. Otherwise Amazon is going to kneecap them, and soon, like within the next three years.

It's the ecosystem, stupid.

[Vegastouch]

Originally Posted by sunspot42

There's a reason why Google has to make a big push into the Android phone (and tablet) hardware business: Amazon. Amazon is prepping its own Android phone, based on its own fork of Android. These phones will not be using Google's services. They'll be cheap, heavily subsidized, sold thru Amazon's website and most likely hooked into Microsoft's web services (for which MS will be paying Amazon hefty amounts).

Samesung won't be able to compete with this, and Google knows it. Just look at how much better Amazon is doing in the tablet market than Samsung.

I have no doubt that Amazon will be causing all sorts of trouble for Apple in the not-too-distant future. Samsung? They're a hardware manufacturer, can't do software worth a damn, and are about to reach their market peak.

If Google wants to continue to have any influence over mobile, they've got to get into the hardware business and start pumping out phones at or below cost, trying to make up the difference on subsidies, subscription services and ad revenue. Otherwise Amazon is going to kneecap them, and soon, like within the next three years.

It's the ecosystem, stupid.

Is this a serious post? Id never buy a friggin Amazon phone...lol, that is a joke imo. Id never buy a Kindle tablet either. I think your whole post is filled with nonsense to be honest.