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Old Dec 22, 2012, 03:38 PM   #51
webbuzz
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Originally Posted by citizenzen View Post
Below is a link to a Fact Sheet: Drug-Related Crime from U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Justice Programs, Bureau of Justice Statistic.

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/DRRC.PDF

Look at the information on page 4. The report is from 1994, so an more up-to-date report should be found.

However, they say that the issue is hard to define. Homicides directly related to the drug trade are a relative small percentage (5-7%), though nearly half (48%) of the males arrested under the suspicion of homicide tested positive for influence of alcohol or drugs.
I agree that it is hard to define. Homicides directly related to a drug sale are probably low. The issue is most likely the turf wars that ensue, which are related to drugs.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 04:58 PM   #52
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That's why we need consistent laws across the country instead of 50 different ones. The reason why gun bans work in other countries is they are banned everywhere so if you want one you have to smuggle it into the country and there's a good chance of getting caught at the border crossing. Somewhere like Chicago has a problem because criminals can go buy a gun outside the city and they have almost no chance that they will get caught while bringing it in. Ban them nationwide, and the ban will be much more effective.
I live by myself in a place that would take at least 10 minutes to get a response if someone is breaking in. Sure I will call 911 first if I can, but I can promise I will have my rifle in my hand as I wait on police. You may want no protection for yourself or your loved ones. Sorry we disagree on that point.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 05:21 PM   #53
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Your first CDC "study" used the MSA population of Chicago, as do the numbers for the seven cities you list above. Why are you linking to the City of Chicago population of 2.7 million?
Please look again at the CDC study.

It lists first the metropolitan statistical areas (MSAs) and secondly the central cities within that MSA.

Every number I cited was for the city itself and not the MSA.

That is why I cited the population for the city of Chicago.

I try to be consistent.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 05:22 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Merkava_4 View Post
So what is your solution to the problem? Have the government go around and gather up the guns out of people's houses and dig up their backyards?
I enjoy watching people like you set up your own dominoes to knock over. Why do you guys constantly jump to "there gonna take'er guns!". Can we just make gun culture a bit safer by banning the loopholes and other common sense solutions?

It's like you guys just jump to the extreme, always.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 05:45 PM   #55
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And legalizing s good portion of those drugs will stop a huge amount of crime. These are the breakdowns as I see it, gang related drug, gang related territory, murder/suicide, basic armed robbery, mental issues, and workplace violence. Is the gun the problem or society in general?
We can't just go and legalize coke and meth.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 05:49 PM   #56
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We can't just go and legalize coke and meth.
No but getting rid of drug dealers will take away their ability to sell these drugs. The reason pot is a "gateway drug" is because the dealer will try to up sell you something stronger and more expensive. So by regulating drugs the dealer can't sell off the streets and the gun crime should go down. Don't legalize coke and meth, but don't put people in jail who take it, they will just come out as professional criminals.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 06:04 PM   #57
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No but getting rid of drug dealers will take away their ability to sell these drugs. The reason pot is a "gateway drug" is because the dealer will try to up sell you something stronger and more expensive.
Who the hell are you buying your weed off of?

I've never run across a pot dealer like that, in fact, the ones I've dealt with in my history have always sold pot exclusively because they don't want to be involved with the "hard dealers".
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 06:08 PM   #58
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Who the hell are you buying your weed off of?

I've never run across a pot dealer like that, in fact, the ones I've dealt with in my history have always sold pot exclusively because they don't want to be involved with the "hard dealers".
I don't buy or smoke.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 06:10 PM   #59
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It astounds me that people still defend the right to own guns.

Here in the UK virtually no-one has a gun.
Most of the police don't have guns.
Gun crime is exceedingly low.

The NRA is now saying that primary schools need to have armed guards.
FFS!
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 06:26 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by octatonic View Post
It astounds me that people still defend the right to own guns.

Here in the UK virtually no-one has a gun.
Most of the police don't have guns.
Gun crime is exceedingly low.

The NRA is now saying that primary schools need to have armed guards.
FFS!
Quote:
WASHINGTON Marking the first anniversary of the shooting deaths at Columbine High School, President Clinton announced $120 million in new federal grants Saturday to place more police officers in schools and help even the youngest kids cope with their problems.

"In our national struggle against youth violence we must not fail our children; our future depends on it," the president said in his weekly radio address.
It seems the NRA isn't alone.

http://articles.latimes.com/2000/apr/16/news/mn-20323
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 06:32 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by octatonic View Post
It astounds me that people still defend the right to own guns.

Here in the UK virtually no-one has a gun.
Most of the police don't have guns.
Gun crime is exceedingly low.

The NRA is now saying that primary schools need to have armed guards.
FFS!
Well good for you and your limited freedoms. I am by far no gun nut and I only own 1 rifle. I enjoy target shooting with a friend and I keep the rifle in my closet for personal protection. I live by myself in a rural area and I am not a fighter so I like to know I have protection. I would never conceal carry and I don't even like handguns.

We have a couple of shotguns a 12 and 20 gauge out on the farm that my grandfather bought in the new in the 1940's. Hopefully they will be passed onto me when my father dies. The only thing we have ever used them for is getting rid of rabid animals that have wondered onto the place every now and then.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 06:40 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by DakotaGuy View Post
Well good for you and your limited freedoms. I am by far no gun nut and I only own 1 rifle. I enjoy target shooting with a friend and I keep the rifle in my closet for personal protection. I live by myself in a rural area and I am not a fighter so I like to know I have protection. I would never conceal carry and I don't even like handguns.

We have a couple of shotguns a 12 and 20 gauge out on the farm that my grandfather bought in the new in the 1940's. Hopefully they will be passed onto me when my father dies. The only thing we have ever used them for is getting rid of rabid animals that have wondered onto the place every now and then.
What's the armed crime rate in rural South Dakota?
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 06:53 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by octatonic View Post
It astounds me that people still defend the right to own guns.
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Originally Posted by DakotaGuy View Post
Well good for you and your limited freedoms.
Yeah. Get with it octatonic.

Don't you relish the freedom of saturating your country in firearms?

Sure it might cost you ~6,000 citizens a year.

But just think of all that freedom you're missing out on.

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What's the armed crime rate in rural South Dakota?
Never mind that. What is the rabid animal rate?

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Old Dec 22, 2012, 06:55 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by MacNut View Post
No but getting rid of drug dealers will take away their ability to sell these drugs. The reason pot is a "gateway drug" is because the dealer will try to up sell you something stronger and more expensive. So by regulating drugs the dealer can't sell off the streets and the gun crime should go down. Don't legalize coke and meth, but don't put people in jail who take it, they will just come out as professional criminals.

I feel like I've been cheated. My pot dealer has never tried to up sell or cross sell me any other drugs.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 07:05 PM   #65
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What's the armed crime rate in rural South Dakota?
It is very low, but then again I would't attempt to go around trying to break into someone's house where I live in the middle of the night. I did have a drunk guy try and come through an open window a couple of summers ago. SCARY! Yes I did grab my gun when I heard the noise and ran to the other room. I yelled for him to leave and he jumped out of the window quickly. When I ran to the window he explained he thought it was a friends house and he couldn't get in the door. What a idiot! Anyhow I didn't need to use the gun, but it was nice to have in my hand. Without it what am I supposed to do? Hand to hand combat or just tell him to come in and do whatever you want to me while I passively sit there? No I am not running out and leaving my house and property even though I am sure you would be the first to do that.

I'm sure you would also be the first to support police using lethal force if necessary to "get the guns." Am I right?

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Never mind that. What is the rabid animal rate?
I'm sure this is a joke, but the rabid animal rate is actually very high. Lots of rabid skunks and raccoons in some of the rural areas. Have you ever seen a rabid animal? It is not a pretty sight. Believe me they need to be put out of their misery and stopped before they bite more animals. I'd say in my lifetime we have shot a dozen. Sure that isn't a lot, but it is the responsible thing to do.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 07:24 PM   #66
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I'm sure this is a joke ... Have you ever seen a rabid animal?
Yes. It was a joke. And no ... I have never seen an animal that I was able to diagnose had rabies just by looking at it. But then again, I'm not a veterinarian.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 07:37 PM   #67
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Yes. It was a joke. And no ... I have never seen an animal that I was able to diagnose had rabies just by looking at it. But then again, I'm not a veterinarian.
You don't need to be a vet. lol. It's pretty easy to tell when they wander up to the place and are walking around in circles drooling. We had a sick calf a few years back and my Dad couldn't figure out what in the world was wrong with it so we doctored it. One morning we got out to the pen and it was dead. We were a little concerned so talked to the vet and he said the brain had to be cut out and sent to the University to be tested. It came back positive and my Dad who actually gave it pills ended up having to get shots. What a mess, but much better then the alternative.

You should spend a little time out on a ranch if you haven't. It's a blast as long as you don't mind getting a little dirty.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 07:48 PM   #68
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You should spend a little time out on a ranch if you haven't. It's a blast as long as you don't mind getting a little dirty.
I grew up in rural Northern California and raised cows, pigs and chickens. But somehow never crossed paths with a rabid wild animal.

Just lucky, I guess.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 07:56 PM   #69
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I grew up in rural Northern California and raised cows, pigs and chickens. But somehow never crossed paths with a rabid wild animal.

Just lucky, I guess.
Yep. They are crazy acting and don't even run from you. Like I said I have only seen a handful in my life, but the second you do you will know.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 09:09 PM   #70
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Timothy McVeigh didn't use a gun, killed 168 people.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 09:26 PM   #71
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Timothy McVeigh didn't use a gun, killed 168 people.
9/11 terrorists didn't either.

Killed thousands.

Case closed.
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 01:05 AM   #72
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Guns are a hedge against good government turning into bad government. You people in the UK have nothing between you and a government that all of a sudden decides to enslave you. Or if the Taliban was to overthrow your government, your women would have to be covered head to toe and your men would never be allowed to shave again.
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 02:27 AM   #73
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Well good for you and your limited freedoms.
I think almost everyone loves their limited freedoms of sending our kids to school, visiting the shopping centre (mall) or catching a film (movie) without the fear of being gunned down by some one who thinks they are Rambo.

Must be worth it though to keep your rabid animals in check (this can be done without guns) or overthrow the government when they go bad (good luck against the F16s!)
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 02:38 AM   #74
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9/11 terrorists didn't either.

Killed thousands.

Case closed.
I believe the correct answer is "no, he didn't, but that fails to substantiate or justify current level of firearm deaths in any sense, whatsoever"

People here are going crazy over ARs and black guns and bombs. Let's remember that bombs and ARs are both rarely used in crime and the largest chunk of gun-deaths are not from rifles, whether bolt action, semi automatic, or even fully automatic. And let's not forget all of the accidental deaths as there are many. The actions of terrorists have nothing to do with this, and the current levels of firearms death are simply unjustifiable. And this is coming from a gun owner and an advocate of gun rights.

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Guns are a hedge against good government turning into bad government. You people in the UK have nothing between you and a government that all of a sudden decides to enslave you. Or if the Taliban was to overthrow your government, your women would have to be covered head to toe and your men would never be allowed to shave again.
I would argue that most people in the US, the overwhelming majority at that, do not purchase a gun with this level of reasoning. Modern government overthrow is all but impossible and in democracies, people can change government themselves without violence. It was the people themselves in the UK who decided on their current gun laws. While I personally would not want gun laws like those in the UK, citizens themselves chose them and there is nothing wrong with that.

Of the many things that worry me, a need to overthrow our government is at a level of importance somewhere between investigating the diet of the dodo bird in rainy weather on a Tuesday afternoon and building a life-sized model of the titanic from toothpicks.
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 02:57 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Merkava_4 View Post
Guns are a hedge against good government turning into bad government. You people in the UK have nothing between you and a government that all of a sudden decides to enslave you. Or if the Taliban was to overthrow your government, your women would have to be covered head to toe and your men would never be allowed to shave again.
If you really believed that, then why don't you arm the whole Afghani nation, by your own ideas that should guarantee good democracy?

Let me see maybe because you're the one supporting the bad government.

I truly think the idea that guns protect you from bad government is a pile of horse @##$.
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