Register FAQ / Rules Forum Spy Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   MacRumors Forums > Mac Community > Community Discussion > Politics, Religion, Social Issues

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Dec 21, 2012, 08:07 PM   #1
SilentPanda
Moderator emeritus
 
SilentPanda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Bamboo Forest
Iowa Supreme Court rules you can be fired for being attractive

I know I know... it's not about guns... sorry.

http://thegazette.com/2012/12/21/bus...e-court-rules/

Quote:
A dentist acted legally when he fired an assistant that he found attractive simply because he and his wife viewed the woman as a threat to their marriage, the all-male Iowa Supreme Court ruled Friday.

The court ruled 7-0 that bosses can fire employees they see as an “irresistible attraction,” even if the employees have not engaged in flirtatious behavior or otherwise done anything wrong. Such firings may be unfair, but they are not unlawful discrimination under the Iowa Civil Rights Act because they are motivated by feelings and emotions, not gender, Justice Edward Mansfield wrote.
"Why were you let go from your last job?" "Because I'm attractive."

Jokes aside, this seems like a pretty poor ruling to me. I understand that it's legal as Iowa is an "at-will" state. I just think the ruling is poor.
__________________
My 24 hour web cam!
SilentPanda is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 21, 2012, 08:23 PM   #2
quagmire
macrumors 603
 
quagmire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
__________________
Crimes against US History:
CV-6 USS Enterprise
Yankee Stadium
Penn Station-New York
quagmire is online now   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 21, 2012, 08:26 PM   #3
citizenzen
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentPanda View Post
I know I know... it's not about guns... sorry.

http://thegazette.com/2012/12/21/bus...e-court-rules/



"Why were you let go from your last job?" "Because I'm attractive."

Jokes aside, this seems like a pretty poor ruling to me. I understand that it's legal as Iowa is an "at-will" state. I just think the ruling is poor.
Utter stupidity.

I can't believe any judge could support that ruling, much less have it come out 7-0.
citizenzen is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 21, 2012, 08:51 PM   #4
Mac'nCheese
macrumors 68020
 
Mac'nCheese's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Why'd he hire her in the first place?
Mac'nCheese is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 21, 2012, 08:59 PM   #5
SilentPanda
Thread Starter
Moderator emeritus
 
SilentPanda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Bamboo Forest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac'nCheese View Post
Why'd he hire her in the first place?
My summary of the judgement...

He hired her in 1999. He fired her in 2010. It sounds like they were friends, he seemed to initiate some mild flirtatious contact (she didn't really respond to it), his wife found out (who also worked at the dentist), then he along with his wife and pastor decided it would be good to fire her so as to prevent the possibility of him having an affair. She says she wouldn't have been fired if she wasn't a female. He says almost all of his staff is female so he's not firing based on gender. He also asserts she's an excellent employee. They are both married and have kids. Of course this is my summary based on memory. Feel free to read the judgement (it's not that long).

I somewhat understand the ruling. But that seems like a crappy reason to be able to fire somebody. "I might want to have an affair with you, and I don't know if you're even willing, but my wife agrees we should fire you as to prevent that temptation."
__________________
My 24 hour web cam!
SilentPanda is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 21, 2012, 09:01 PM   #6
Mac'nCheese
macrumors 68020
 
Mac'nCheese's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentPanda View Post
My summary of the judgement...

He hired her in 1999. He fired her in 2010. It sounds like they were friends, he seemed to initiate some mild flirtatious contact (she didn't really respond to it), his wife found out (who also worked at the dentist), then he along with his wife and pastor decided it would be good to fire her so as to prevent the possibility of him having an affair. She says she wouldn't have been fired if she wasn't a female. He says almost all of his staff is female so he's not firing based on gender. He also asserts she's an excellent employee. They are both married and have kids. Of course this is my summary based on memory. Feel free to read the judgement (it's not that long).

I somewhat understand the ruling. But that seems like a crappy reason to be able to fire somebody. "I might want to have an affair with you, and I don't know if you're even willing, but my wife agrees we should fire you as to prevent that temptation."
Thanks for the info. It sounds like this woman just got a crap deal all around; hopefully someone will get her a better a job.
Mac'nCheese is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 21, 2012, 09:05 PM   #7
APlotdevice
macrumors 68020
 
APlotdevice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
One can only hope such an idiotic ruling is overturned by a higher court.
__________________
Pebble SmartWatch - iPhone 5c - 11" Macbook Air '13 - TV - HTPC - Numerous Consoles
There is something deeply wrong with a society more offended by breasts than by entrails.
APlotdevice is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 21, 2012, 10:13 PM   #8
NickZac
macrumors 68000
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
I always figured that this would be an issue but in the reverse... Look at college professors...they have nice, young, attractive TAs. Tons of them. Y'all know the obesity rate is rampant here in the States so it isn't like this is happening by coincidence.

Quote:
A dentist acted legally when he fired an assistant that he found attractive simply because he and his wife viewed the woman as a threat to their marriage, the all-male Iowa Supreme Court ruled Friday.
WTF? I figured the ruling would be 'hooray boobies!'
NickZac is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 21, 2012, 10:17 PM   #9
Orange Crane
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
I'd hire someone who just got fired for being hot, assuming they weren't a moron or something.
Orange Crane is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 22, 2012, 12:06 AM   #10
Don't panic
macrumors 68040
 
Don't panic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: having a drink at Milliways
she should have got at least a better severance package
__________________
I do not believe in lot of things, but I do believe in duct tape.
Miles Straume
linky to stonyc's ww table
Don't panic is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 22, 2012, 03:22 AM   #11
iStudentUK
macrumors 65816
 
iStudentUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: London
Thank God I don't work there, my job would be at serious risk.

Ok seriously, this is why "at will" employment is a ridiculous idea. We have "casual labourers" here in the UK (for example I worked in a shop during uni holidays as a casual labourer) but they still have employment rights!
__________________
UK students may want to read about Apple education discounts and free student warranties here
iStudentUK is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 22, 2012, 09:44 AM   #12
SilentPanda
Thread Starter
Moderator emeritus
 
SilentPanda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Bamboo Forest
Although the ruling seems poor in general, it was ruled as such because it was found to not be discrimination based on gender. I think most of us will agree she should not have been fired (or at least given a very good severance package), but do you guys think it was discrimination based on gender? If it had been that, she would have won the court case.
__________________
My 24 hour web cam!
SilentPanda is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 22, 2012, 10:06 AM   #13
citizenzen
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentPanda View Post
Although the ruling seems poor in general, it was ruled as such because it was found to not be discrimination based on gender.
Firing—provided we're not talking about economics—should be based on one thing only: performance.

IMO, anything not connected with performance is in itself unfairly discriminatory and should not be lawful.

I can only hope a higher court overrules this.
citizenzen is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 22, 2012, 06:30 PM   #14
VideoFreek
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Philly
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentPanda View Post
Although the ruling seems poor in general, it was ruled as such because it was found to not be discrimination based on gender. I think most of us will agree she should not have been fired (or at least given a very good severance package), but do you guys think it was discrimination based on gender? If it had been that, she would have won the court case.
The termination was highly unjust, but no, I don't think it was discrimination based on gender. As the defense pointed out, the good doctor employs an all-female workforce, and he replaced her with another woman, so I see no support for the idea that she was fired merely because she is a woman. She was fired because she is hot, and the dentist could not contain his growing attraction to her; gender is quite incidental. Had he been gay and fired an attractive male employee for the same reason, would anyone be talking about gender discrimination?

Nevertheless, the firing was grossly unfair because she did nothing wrong. In the long run, however, Ms. Nelson will be better off far away from her lecherous former boss. As a highly competent dental assistant, I'm sure she'll find a new job quickly, and I sincerely hope a lot of Dr. Knight's patients follow her to her new employer.
VideoFreek is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 23, 2012, 12:32 AM   #15
Andeavor
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentPanda View Post
Although the ruling seems poor in general, it was ruled as such because it was found to not be discrimination based on gender. I think most of us will agree she should not have been fired (or at least given a very good severance package), but do you guys think it was discrimination based on gender? If it had been that, she would have won the court case.
It is discrimination based on gender because if it was an attractive male assistant, there would be no reason for him to fire the employee.

Instead of firing her, he could've gotten her transferred to another dentist's practice. Just because he doesn't want to be tempted to cheat on his wife doesn't mean the assistant should draw the short one and lose her job, her pay and her benefits. That's unfair and unprofessional.
Andeavor is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 23, 2012, 12:39 AM   #16
NickZac
macrumors 68000
 
Join Date: Dec 2010


...I mean, boo..er.. pics
NickZac is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 23, 2012, 01:54 PM   #17
Ariii
macrumors 6502a
 
Ariii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Chicago
Send a message via ICQ to Ariii Send a message via AIM to Ariii Send a message via MSN to Ariii Send a message via Yahoo to Ariii
What about the modeling industry? Isn't appearance a huge part of some industries ?
__________________
Indigo iBook Clamshell, MacOS 9; Lime iBook Clamshell, Panther;
MacOS 9 users: Use Classilla | MacOS 9 Lives
I'm on IRC at #macrumors on irc.krono.net
Tumblr
Ariii is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 23, 2012, 02:00 PM   #18
citizenzen
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariii View Post
What about the modeling industry? Isn't appearance basically the whole point of some industries ? Even acting could be affected.
Are you really confused?

Do you really believe the modeling industry will somehow be affected by this?
citizenzen is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 23, 2012, 02:58 PM   #19
mrkramer
macrumors 601
 
mrkramer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somewhere
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macaroony View Post
Instead of firing her, he could've gotten her transferred to another dentist's practice.
How? If he has a private practice it's not like he can go to another dentists office and tell them to hire her...
__________________
"Jesus was the first socialist, the first to seek a better life for mankind." -Mikhail Gorbachev
mrkramer is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 23, 2012, 04:07 PM   #20
Huntn
macrumors 604
 
Huntn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: The Misty Mountains
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentPanda View Post
I know I know... it's not about guns... sorry.

http://thegazette.com/2012/12/21/bus...e-court-rules/



"Why were you let go from your last job?" "Because I'm attractive."

Jokes aside, this seems like a pretty poor ruling to me. I understand that it's legal as Iowa is an "at-will" state. I just think the ruling is poor.
While I think this ruling is terrible, unfortunately in "at will" states you can fired for no reason. However, this is trumped by Federal discrimination laws which say you can't be discriminated against based on your race, your religion, or your SEX, of which I would say this definitely applies. Send it up to the next court.
__________________
The modern business ethos: "I'm worth it, you're not, and I'm a glutton!"
MBP, 2.2 GHz intel i7, Radeon HD 6750M, Bootcamp: W7.
PC: i5 4670k, 8GB RAM, Asus GTX670 (2GB VRAM), W7.
Huntn is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 25, 2012, 10:14 AM   #21
Happybunny
macrumors 65816
 
Happybunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 's-Hertogenbosch Netherlands
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentPanda View Post
I know I know... it's not about guns... sorry.

http://thegazette.com/2012/12/21/bus...e-court-rules/



"Why were you let go from your last job?" "Because I'm attractive."

Jokes aside, this seems like a pretty poor ruling to me. I understand that it's legal as Iowa is an "at-will" state. I just think the ruling is poor.
I read this and thought I guess this is what they mean by "The Good ol' Boys".

By the way SilentPanda, my granddaughter Jasmijn thinks your Panda Avatar is super cute.
__________________
'You cannot undo history, but you can learn from it'
Happybunny is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 25, 2012, 06:55 PM   #22
SilentPanda
Thread Starter
Moderator emeritus
 
SilentPanda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Bamboo Forest
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickZac View Post
...I mean, boo..er.. pics
http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/22/us/iow...html?hpt=hp_c2
__________________
My 24 hour web cam!
SilentPanda is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 25, 2012, 07:14 PM   #23
Mac'nCheese
macrumors 68020
 
Mac'nCheese's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentPanda View Post
According to that article, she was the best assistant he ever had. But he had to fire her because, I guess, he was so weak, he could not control himself and she would have led to the downfall of his marriage. Forget the fact that even if this pos had so little self control that if she stayed, he would have hit on her, who is to say that we would have had an affair with him, anyway? All she has to do is say no and marriage is fine! Poor guy, he's so wonderful that any chick would want to be with him. Poor guy, he can't stand to be around beautiful woman or else he has no control. Probably love to live in Muslim countries where women are smart enough to cover themselves from head to toe because if they don't, all the men would be unable to control themselves. Hope this guy looses every single patient he has.
Mac'nCheese is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 25, 2012, 07:24 PM   #24
NickZac
macrumors 68000
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentPanda View Post
Pretty girl. She has great teeth
NickZac is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 25, 2012, 08:12 PM   #25
citizenzen
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac'nCheese View Post
According to that article, she was the best assistant he ever had. But he had to fire her because, I guess, he was so weak, he could not control himself and she would have led to the downfall of his marriage. Forget the fact that even if this pos had so little self control that if she stayed, he would have hit on her, who is to say that we would have had an affair with him, anyway? All she has to do is say no and marriage is fine! Poor guy, he's so wonderful that any chick would want to be with him. Poor guy, he can't stand to be around beautiful woman or else he has no control. Probably love to live in Muslim countries where women are smart enough to cover themselves from head to toe because if they don't, all the men would be unable to control themselves. Hope this guy looses every single patient he has.
And the fact the seven Supreme Court Justices couldn't understand this is ... mind boggling.
citizenzen is offline   1 Reply With Quote


Reply
MacRumors Forums > Mac Community > Community Discussion > Politics, Religion, Social Issues

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Supreme Court gets one right mcrain Politics, Religion, Social Issues 14 Nov 29, 2012 10:03 AM
Supreme Court Copyright Case eric/ Politics, Religion, Social Issues 24 Nov 1, 2012 10:13 PM
Republicans Appeal DOMA Case to Supreme Court leekohler Politics, Religion, Social Issues 119 Oct 28, 2012 09:35 PM
The Supreme Court rules on the Affordable Care Act Blue Velvet Politics, Religion, Social Issues 397 Jul 2, 2012 08:20 PM
What's Wrong with the U.S. Supreme Court? Huntn Politics, Religion, Social Issues 65 Jun 28, 2012 07:37 PM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:11 AM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC