Firefighters shot when arriving to fire.

[MacNut]

Originally Posted by citizenzen

What culture sentences manslaughter with the death penalty?

The following is a list of countries that permit and practice capital punishment.

Which of these countries do you consider having a "sane culture" ...?

He should have never goten manslaughter, he should have gotten first degree with no chance of parole.

[citizenzen]

Originally Posted by thewitt

Manslaughter? Only in some crazed liberal rehab context - not in the mind of any rational thinking individual.

Liberal rehab context?



It was the verdict of the court.

It might be a good idea to work from the facts as they become known and not base your opinion off your political disdain.

Let's see what the facts are and then pass judgement.

[MacNut]

Originally Posted by citizenzen

Liberal rehab context?



It was the verdict of the court.

It might be a good idea to work from the facts as they become known and not base your opinion off your political disdain.

Let's see what the facts are and then pass judgement.

The facts are they give this guy a light sentence and allowed him to kill again. This goes beyond him having guns and more about him having freedom.

[NT1440]

Originally Posted by MacNut

The facts are they give this guy a light sentence and allowed him to kill again. This goes beyond him having guns and more about him having freedom.

I'd just like to know how he obtained these guns

[MacNut]

Originally Posted by NT1440

I'd just like to know how he obtained these guns

I am curious about this as well, I hope it wasn't a faulty background check.

[NT1440]

Originally Posted by MacNut

I am curious about this as well, I hope it wasn't a faulty background check.

As awful as it sounds, I hope he got them from a gun show so we can finally close that retarded loophole.

[MacNut]

Originally Posted by NT1440

As awful as it sounds, I hope he got them from a gun show so we can finally close that retarded loophole.

I agree, if he went through legal channels the whole system is ****ed.

[citizenzen]

Originally Posted by MacNut

This goes beyond him having guns and more about him having freedom.

It's a bit of both.

[MacNut]

Originally Posted by citizenzen

It's a bit of both.

He never should of had access to the guns because he never should have been released from prison. So who do you blame, the person he got the guns from or the judge for giving him the reduced sentence?

[citizenzen]

Originally Posted by MacNut

So who do you blame, the person he got the guns from or the judge for giving him the reduced sentence?

Considering the lack of facts on both point's, it's premature to lay blame for either.

[NT1440]

Originally Posted by MacNut

He never should of had access to the guns because he never should have been released from prison. So who do you blame, the person he got the guns from or the judge for giving him the reduced sentence?

It can't be both?

[MacNut]

Originally Posted by NT1440

It can't be both?

Sure it can, but if the judge had kept him in jail the second point would be moot.

[Eraserhead]

Originally Posted by glocke12

U.S. prisons are a hell of alot better than prisons in many other countries...

I'd rather be in prison in any other rich country, as at least no-one is going to try and kill you.

In the UK it makes the news when convicted child molesters get attacked in prison.

Originally Posted by glocke12

This guy murdered his grandmother...as far as I am concerned life sentence without parole is too lenient...

Ah the death penalty, the fairest of all punishments as there is no way back.

And there are circumstances where killing ones grandmother might be more reasonable - it could have been provoked.

----------

Originally Posted by thewitt

The criminal justice system failed yet again, in a country with a recidivism rate that is one of the highest in the world at about 70% - right up there with the UK.

It's not working. Prisons don't rehabilitate.

As usual you turn out to be completely incorrect. Norway has a very low recidivism rate and it treats its prisoners very well.

Originally Posted by Time Magazine

Within two years of their release, 20% of Norway's prisoners end up back in jail. In the U.K. and the U.S., the figure hovers between 50% and 60%.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...000920,00.html

And the photo gallery.

According to the BBC about the same prison.

The result he refers to is a 16% re-offending rate among former Bastoey inmates. It is by far the lowest in Europe, quite possibly the lowest in the world.

[NT1440]

Originally Posted by MacNut

Sure it can, but if the judge had kept him in jail the second point would be moot.

If his mom never got pregnant this whole conversation would be moot. How far back do you want to go with this? Apparently he has been a free man since 1997 so while he clearly was a psychopath, he wasn't walking around killing people openly since then, unless there is more to this story (and from his note, there very well could be).

[glocke12]

Originally Posted by Eraserhead

I'd rather be in prison in any other rich country, as at least no-one is going to try and kill you.

an that is where you and I differ...I could care less if a convicted violent offender meets his end at the hands of his cell mates.

Originally Posted by Eraserhead

And there are circumstances where killing ones grandmother might be more reasonable - it could have been provoked.

Really? Please explain...If I were your grandfather and I sat there and antagonized you every day would you kill me for it? Or would you walk away or move out?

Since you seem so keen on defending this guy by saying there could have been a reasonable explanation for him murdering his grandmother, I wonder what your stance was on the Zimmerman/Martin case..Were you posting here saying Zimmerman could have had a good reason to shoot Martin, or were you posting about some paranoid white guy with a gun shooting a poor black youth to death?

[ericrwalker]

Originally Posted by glocke12

Really? Please explain...If I were your grandfather and I sat there and antagonized you every day would you kill me for it? Or would you walk away or move out?

Since you seem so keen on defending this guy by saying there could have been a reasonable explanation for him murdering his grandmother, I wonder what your stance was on the Zimmerman/Martin case..Were you posting here saying Zimmerman could have had a good reason to shoot Martin, or were you posting about some paranoid white guy with a gun shooting a poor black youth to death?

Maybe Grandma didn't give him a Xbox for Xmas?

About the zimmerman case, he started commenting in that thread at post 134. I am not going to take Eraserhead off my ignore list to see his opinion though.

[Eraserhead]

Originally Posted by glocke12

an that is where you and I differ...I could care less if a convicted violent offender meets his end at the hands of his cell mates.

Not all offenders in prison are violent or necessarily irredeemable.

They could in fact be innocent.

Originally Posted by glocke12

Really? Please explain...If I were your grandfather and I sat there and antagonized you every day would you kill me for it? Or would you walk away or move out?

Personally I'd move out.

Originally Posted by glocke12

Since you seem so keen on defending this guy by saying there could have been a reasonable explanation for him murdering his grandmother,

The "reasonable explanation" only needs to be reasonable to the extent that it makes it as bad as any other murder - which is still pretty bad. Sorry for not being clear in post #88.

[PracticalMac]

Originally Posted by Moyank24

Oh please.

Too many murders, accidents, suicides have occurred because gun owners didn't keep their guns secure. It seems so simple, yet it seems like daily we are hearing about another accidental shooting...

Murders: does not matter. Does not have to be gun.
Suicides: If its not gun, then razor blades, ropes, or rail.

Accidental: This is due to lack of education in US. In this case I do want to see required training with recurrence if you want to own a firearm. Many countries allow you to own firearms with a permit. My idea is like a Drivers License. You do not need to own a firearm, but if you do you have to have a license.

[Eraserhead]

Originally Posted by PracticalMac

Suicides: If its not gun, then razor blades, ropes, or rail.

As people have posted earlier killing oneself with anything other than a gun is pretty hard.

[thewitt]

Originally Posted by Eraserhead

As people have posted earlier killing oneself with anything other than a gun is pretty hard.

Actually hanging is the most common method of suicide, followed by drug overdoses.

[NT1440]

Originally Posted by PracticalMac

Accidental: This is due to lack of education in US.

I think it would be more of not following proper procedures and lack of gun locks that drive most accidents, not a lack of knowledge on the subject.

[Moyank24]

Originally Posted by thewitt

Actually hanging is the most common method of suicide, followed by drug overdoses.

Not according to the CDC.....

During 2005–2009, the greatest percentage of suicides among males occurred by firearms (56.3%) while the greatest percentage of suicides among females occurred by poisoning (39.3%).

And for persons aged 10-24.....

During 2005-2009, the greatest percentage of suicides occurred by firearm and suffocation for all race/ethnicity groups in those 10 to 24 years old. A higher percentage of suicides occurred by suffocation in American Indian/Alaskan Natives (55.9%) and by firearm in Non-Hispanic Blacks (52.6%) as compared to the other race/ethnicity groups.


And for all ages....

During 2005–2009, the greatest percentage of suicides among males in each age group, 10 to 24 years, 25 to 64 years, and 65 years and older occurred by firearms (49.7%, 51.9%, and 79.1%, respectively). The greatest percentage of suicides among females ages 10 to 24 years occurred by suffocation (48.5%). The greatest percentage of suicides among females ages 25 to 64 years and 65 years and older occurred by poisoning (42.8%, and 36.1% respectively).

These are from 05-09, so unless things have changed dramatically in the last 3 years, you are, once again, ill informed.

[PracticalMac]

Originally Posted by NT1440

I think it would be more of not following proper procedures and lack of gun locks that drive most accidents, not a lack of knowledge on the subject.

Exactly, lack of education and repetitive training.

Also the children are not taught dangers by parents.

[Eraserhead]

Originally Posted by PracticalMac

Also the children are not taught dangers by parents.

I guess you can guarantee children will be taught to walk by their parents, but assuming this is like assuming children will be taught about sex by their parents.

[roadbloc]

No sympathy from me I'm afraid. The majority of the rest of the world understands that guns have no place in society. Why won't you join us?