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Old Dec 24, 2012, 11:23 AM   #1
PracticalMac
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Anyone commiting violent crime while high on Marijuana?

I have heard a lot about gun violence while drunk, PCP, or other drugs (cocaine and barbiturates come to mind). Maybe even caffeine OD?

Never heard of a case of someone high on Marijuana go shoot someone.


I ask this as I hear some say legalization of MJ will cause increase in violent crime, but that is dubious considering the typically sedative effects of MJ. A leading theory is the user himself has naturally strong violent tendencies, after all it is illegal.


Of course, because it is illegal it makes it very difficult to do a proper scientific study, despite a potential for positive medical benefits.
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Old Dec 24, 2012, 11:39 AM   #2
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The only violent crime that's going to be committed by someone who's stoned is assault on a cheetos bag and a case of mountain dew.


Legalizing marijuana would take it's production and distribution out of the hand of illegal, black market entities (gangs, cartels, whatever). This will quite obviously reduce violent crime.
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Old Dec 24, 2012, 11:44 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PracticalMac View Post
Never heard of a case of someone high on Marijuana go shoot someone.
Surely some violent crime is committed under the influence of marijuana.

However, I doubt legalizing it would increase violent crime, as some percentage of violent crime is associated with its illegal cultivation and sale.

Here in Humboldt County there are a regular number of incidences of home invasions and even murder tied to the marijuana trade. If you could walk down to the liquor store and buy a bag, much of that should end.

Quote:
Humboldt County Marijuana Grower Indicted For Murder
March 1, 2012

A federal grand jury in San Francisco today indicted Mikal Xylon Wilde, of Humboldt County, with murder during narcotics offense, conspiracy to manufacture and distribute 1000 or more marijuana plants, manufacture and possession with intent to distribute 1000 or more marijuana plants, use of a firearm during and in relation to a drug trafficking offense and crime of violence, use of a firearm causing death in the form of murder, and possession of ammunition by a convicted felon, United States Attorney Melinda Haag announced.

http://www.justice.gov/usao/can/news...ted.press.html
Quote:
Humboldt: Three life terms for murderer in marijuana robbery
07/06/2012

Emotions ran high in a Humboldt County courtroom Thursday as Brian Cole Fiore was sentenced to three consecutive life terms in prison for murdering his 21-year-old friend David Fields following a 2009 marijuana heist.

http://www.willitsnews.com/ci_210270...-sentence-life
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No plea for Josiah Miller at Tuesday arraignment
07/30/2008

Josiah Miller, a 27-year-old Arcata resident suspected in the death of Michelle Ashlee Dickson, was assigned an attorney Tuesday but did not enter a plea on an abuse of a corpse charge during his appearance in a Del Norte County courtroom.

Miller was allegedly the last to see Dickson -- who was a close acquaintance -- the night of her disappearance, after reportedly buying marijuana at a prearranged site just south of Crescent City. Dickson's car was discovered early the next morning, burning in a beach parking area near the site of the alleged drug deal.

Del Norte Sheriff's Cmdr. Bill Steven said Miller told authorities he drove his pickup north from Arcata to meet Dickson to purchase 3 ounces of marijuana. After her disappearance, Miller's truck was seized as evidence, and police reportedly found it had recently been thoroughly cleaned, and sections of the seat were cut away.

http://www.times-standard.com/localnews/ci_10039445
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Old Dec 24, 2012, 11:58 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by zioxide View Post
The only violent crime that's going to be committed by someone who's stoned is assault on a cheetos bag and a case of mountain dew.

Legalizing marijuana would take it's production and distribution out of the hand of illegal, black market entities (gangs, cartels, whatever). This will quite obviously reduce violent crime.
Exactly.
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Old Dec 24, 2012, 12:07 PM   #5
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It seems unlikely that someone who is stoned will be going on a rampage (unless the cottonmouth gets too bad to bear). Yet it is common for someone who is drunk to become belligerent and uncontrollable of both emotion and action...and yet we allow alcohol but not pot.

It's the classic example of the failure of drug-policy in the US.

Whether it is an assault on persons legitimately in pain through over-control of medication, a refusal to legalize things far less destructive than legal drugs, helping to employ the good folks who run cartels, misleading the public on the effects of certain drugs, or the SOP of locking someone up who smoked a little reefer with hardened criminals, drug policy been an across the board failure (and for many years has been the 'horse on the dining room table').
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Old Dec 24, 2012, 11:31 PM   #6
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Move to California. Problem solved.
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Old Dec 24, 2012, 11:38 PM   #7
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I really don't see why Marijuana doesn't follow the same rules, laws, and sales policies as alcohol.
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Old Dec 24, 2012, 11:51 PM   #8
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I can safely say that after nearly twenty days of legal cannabis I have personally avoided committing violent crimes entirely, while using it and while not.
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 11:19 AM   #9
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I really don't see why Marijuana doesn't follow the same rules, laws, and sales policies as alcohol.
It's harder to control and tax for the government.
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 12:56 PM   #10
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It's harder to control and tax for the government.
Why is it harder than any other crop or product to tax and control?
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 04:21 PM   #11
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Why is it harder than any other crop or product to tax and control?
I think it's because it's too easy for people to grow a sufficient amount in their basement and distribute to whomever they please. This way they aren't buying from the government and likely aren't charging and remitting sales tax when they sell it lol

As a contrast, it's much more difficult to make good alcohol at home consistently
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 05:43 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by sviato View Post
I think it's because it's too easy for people to grow a sufficient amount in their basement and distribute to whomever they please. This way they aren't buying from the government and likely aren't charging and remitting sales tax when they sell it lol

As a contrast, it's much more difficult to make good alcohol at home consistently
What about tobacco? I could grow some in my back yard and sell it to a few friends and neighbors for far less than what you could pick up a pack of smokes at the local quik-e-mart for.

Yeah, you might have a few people doing it here and there, but I doubt it'd become popular to the point you have everyone and their grandma firing up a hydroponics farm in their basement. It wouldn't be nearly widespread enough that it'd undercut the government.
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 06:25 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by sviato View Post
I think it's because it's too easy for people to grow a sufficient amount in their basement and distribute to whomever they please.
I imagine like most things, if you could run down to the market a buy a half-way decent product for a half-way decent price, that would discourage most people from trying to produce it themselves.

It works for me.
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 06:56 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Orange Crane View Post
I can safely say that after nearly twenty days of legal cannabis I have personally avoided committing violent crimes entirely, while using it and while not.
I would go as far to say it can PREVENT violent crime. It's potential medical value for the control of chronic pain and some psychological issues has been established. One of the biggest advocates of legalization, Gary Johnson, is advocating it because he personally used it after a severe injury to control severe pain. His first hand experience was enough to convince him of the value (and safety) of the drug.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 07:31 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sviato View Post
I think it's because it's too easy for people to grow a sufficient amount in their basement and distribute to whomever they please. This way they aren't buying from the government and likely aren't charging and remitting sales tax when they sell it lol

As a contrast, it's much more difficult to make good alcohol at home consistently


Easily solved. Charge a licensing fee to grow it and regulate how much one can grow legally.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 08:14 PM   #16
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Easily solved. Charge a licensing fee to grow it and regulate how much one can grow legally.
That's easily flawed. What stops the same people who grow it illegally now from continuing to do so and not paying any fees?


That said, I'm no expert on this issue. Although to be honest it's probably more expensive for the government to be completely against it rather than for it and have some people not following the rules on the side. The costs of enforcement seem to outweigh the benefits.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 08:29 PM   #17
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There was a chap at my school years ago who used to attack other pupils after smoking cannabis, he would ask others if they had a pen, and when they looked in their bag he would hit/jump on them. It was quite weird! He was a frequent user and I think only attended school to buy drugs.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 08:32 PM   #18
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 08:32 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sviato View Post
I think it's because it's too easy for people to grow a sufficient amount in their basement and distribute to whomever they please. This way they aren't buying from the government and likely aren't charging and remitting sales tax when they sell it lol

As a contrast, it's much more difficult to make good alcohol at home consistently
People can grow at home and sell it for a profit because its current illicit nature puts a premium on price. Make it as available as beer, cigarettes and cough medicine and watch the price fall like a rock while the convenience factor goes through the roof.

Sure some people will still grow their own (just like some people make their own beer or have their own vegetable garden) but the cottage industry that exists today will largely go up in smoke (pun intended) once commercial-sized growers put economy of scale into the equation. Even if a local grower could price competitively he/she would still need an accessible store front (which makes it easier for customers and the tax man to find you) because once customers can buy it at the corner store no one is going to mess with a clandestine meetup in order to buy weed.

Will 100% of it be taxed? No, but 100% of sales & services aren't taxed on anything (there are businesses in every city where a cash payment will get a discount and a sale off the books) but the vast majority of it will be taxed because to the vast majority of people paying the tax will be less of a headache than trying to avoid it.
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