Register FAQ / Rules Forum Spy Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   MacRumors Forums > Mac Community > Community Discussion > Politics, Religion, Social Issues

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Dec 26, 2012, 11:32 AM   #26
citizenzen
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eraserhead View Post
Poor people wouldn't have had large amounts of gold, you had to have approaching todays equivalent of $10k in savings in gold to even be affected by it.
As you suggest, the executive order would not have affected most people ...

Quote:
Order 6102 specifically exempted "customary use in industry, profession or art"—a provision that covered artists, jewellers, dentists, and sign makers among others. The order further permitted any person to own up to $100 in gold coins (a face value equivalent to 5 troy ounces (160 g) of Gold valued at about $7800 as of 2011). The same paragraph also exempted "gold coins having recognized special value to collectors of rare and unusual coins." This protected recognized gold coin collections from legal seizure and likely melting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102
citizenzen is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 26, 2012, 11:49 AM   #27
leekohler
Banned
 
leekohler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squadleader View Post
Laugh now....What goes around...
Already was our turn- it's called W.
leekohler is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 26, 2012, 11:52 AM   #28
zioxide
macrumors 603
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Quote:
Originally Posted by leekohler View Post
Already was our turn- it's called W.
Not just W... this irrational "conservative" nonsense has been going on since Reagan.

Obama is finally moving us towards catching up with the rest of the western world.
zioxide is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 26, 2012, 11:59 AM   #29
leekohler
Banned
 
leekohler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Quote:
Originally Posted by zioxide View Post
Not just W... this irrational "conservative" nonsense has been going on since Reagan.

Obama is finally moving us towards catching up with the rest of the western world.
This is true. The Reagan 80s were the beginning of all of this dog-eat-dog garbage.
leekohler is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 26, 2012, 12:06 PM   #30
flopticalcube
macrumors G4
 
flopticalcube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: In the velcro closure of America's Hat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eraserhead View Post
In this case thewitt's family who were affected by the order were clearly super rich.
Well, I don't know about super rich. At the time about 25% of people's savings were in gold so if you had savings of more than $40000 today, you would be affected. The proportion of wealth in gold today is actually only about 2% so, at the moment, it would not make much sense to seize it.
__________________
Read the Rules / Search the Forums / Use a Descriptive Title
Mac Won't Boot?
flopticalcube is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 26, 2012, 12:06 PM   #31
Macky-Mac
macrumors 68020
 
Macky-Mac's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
it wont matter since you'll be cooling your heels in one of those secret FEMA concentration camps hidden away in Alaska.
Macky-Mac is offline   4 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 26, 2012, 12:13 PM   #32
DollaTwentyFive
macrumors Demi-God
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Parts Unknown
Quote:
Originally Posted by leekohler View Post
I have to say I'm really enjoying all the "conservative" hand-wringing going on. The next four years are going to be fun to watch. Just wait til the Supreme Court overrules things like DOMA.

It's gonna be a damn good time seeing all the conservative paranoia.
While I agree it is enjoyable to watch the right-wingers have conservative meltdowns, I also find it scary. These are the people that have the guns. If they feel threatened enough by the government - who knows what they may do....
DollaTwentyFive is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 26, 2012, 12:38 PM   #33
leekohler
Banned
 
leekohler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Quote:
Originally Posted by DollaTwentyFive View Post
While I agree it is enjoyable to watch the right-wingers have conservative meltdowns, I also find it scary. These are the people that have the guns. If they feel threatened enough by the government - who knows what they may do....
It's ridiculous!

"OMG! The librools are gonna steal our guns! The librools are gonna steal our gold! The librools are commie socialists! The librools only worship one god- Obama!"

Seriously? And people wonder why this country has problems. This is some of the most stupid s*** I've ever heard in my life. It's absolute and utter insanity, and it needs to stop.
leekohler is offline   4 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 26, 2012, 01:01 PM   #34
haxrnick
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Seattle
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrono1081 View Post
Why are people so paranoid over Obama? It wasn't Obama who got this country in the mess it was in it was Bush by starting two unnecessary wars and borrowing money to pay for those wars.
haxrnick is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 26, 2012, 02:25 PM   #35
chrono1081
macrumors 604
 
chrono1081's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Isla Nublar
Quote:
Originally Posted by haxrnick View Post
Just because its often repeated doesn't make it any less true.

Not blaming Bush for the current mess is like saying "stop blaming Hitler for the Holocaust".
__________________
Mac Pro (2010): 3.33Ghz Intel Xeon (6 core) - 24 GB RAM - NVidia Quadro k5000
Macbook Air (2010): 2.13 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo - 4GB RAM
chrono1081 is offline   5 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 26, 2012, 02:34 PM   #36
Dmunjal
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by copykris View Post
it was an effort to get people to spend their money instead of going out on bank runs to exchange it for gold to store at home, where it does nothing for an already flailing economy
It was a way to devalue the dollar and cause inflation to fight deflation resulting from the Depression.

There's no reason to do that today. We are no longer on the gold standard. Regular old QE does just fine.
Dmunjal is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 26, 2012, 02:36 PM   #37
Bug-Creator
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Germany
The goverment (aka the citizen of the US) seizing assets of US-citizen to pay for the depts massed up by the goverment (aka the citizen of the US) is not theft in anyway.

It's what will happen one way or another sooner or later, wether by heavy taxing, runaway inflation or seizing property directly is just the flavour of the poison.

Getting of the gold standard was like jumping of slow moving train, getting back to it in the current economy is like trying to jump onto a bullet-train at full speed
Bug-Creator is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 26, 2012, 03:36 PM   #38
Dmunjal
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bug-Creator View Post
The goverment (aka the citizen of the US) seizing assets of US-citizen to pay for the depts massed up by the goverment (aka the citizen of the US) is not theft in anyway.

It's what will happen one way or another sooner or later, wether by heavy taxing, runaway inflation or seizing property directly is just the flavour of the poison.

Getting of the gold standard was like jumping of slow moving train, getting back to it in the current economy is like trying to jump onto a bullet-train at full speed
So many people don't realize this. We think we can have all of these programs, trillion dollar defense budget, free health care and not have to pay for it. We'll be paying for it with $5 gas and $10 milk.
Dmunjal is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 26, 2012, 04:06 PM   #39
Squadleader
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Avalon Hill
Quote:
Originally Posted by DollaTwentyFive View Post
While I agree it is enjoyable to watch the right-wingers have conservative meltdowns, I also find it scary. These are the people that have the guns. If they feel threatened enough by the government - who knows what they may do....
Thats precisely why it was written in the constitution....
Squadleader is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 26, 2012, 04:09 PM   #40
citizenzen
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmunjal View Post
So many people don't realize this. We think we can have all of these programs, trillion dollar defense budget, free health care and not have to pay for it.
What makes you think we don't understand that we have to pay for these things.

(Though I would prefer cutting the military budget a good 3/4ths. I think we could get along in the world quite nicely with that, especially with our NATO allies)
citizenzen is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 26, 2012, 04:13 PM   #41
rdowns
macrumors Penryn
 
rdowns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by citizenzen View Post
What makes you think we don't understand that we have to pay for these things.

(Though I would prefer cutting the military budget a good 3/4ths. I think we could get along in the world quite nicely with that, especially with our NATO allies)

Not true. As much as I'd like to see the defense budget cut, cutting it by 3/4ths would throw us into another recession and bump unemployment up at least a point or two. Where would all those soldiers and defense contractors go to work?

As for our NATO allies, they're smart. While we've been bankrupting ourselves since 9/11, they've all cut their defense spending and are letting us foot the bill. In other words, NATO relies on us, we can't rely on them.
__________________
If your religion is worth killing for, please start with yourself.
rdowns is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 26, 2012, 04:21 PM   #42
Dmunjal
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by citizenzen View Post
What makes you think we don't understand that we have to pay for these things.

(Though I would prefer cutting the military budget a good 3/4ths. I think we could get along in the world quite nicely with that, especially with our NATO allies)
Because our tax revenue doesn't even begin to pay for it to the tune of $1T in deficit a year and $16T accumulated. And we can't have an honest conversation about raising taxes or reducing spending to deal with it.

A balanced budget would require taxes on the middle class of more than 50% and drastic cuts to entitlements and defense.

We have no idea how much our government costs. Borrowing from China and Japan forces our grandchildren to pay for it. Printing and QE devalues the dollar so we pay for it at the pump and grocery store and everything else that we buy.
Dmunjal is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 26, 2012, 04:27 PM   #43
citizenzen
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdowns View Post
Not true. As much as I'd like to see the defense budget cut, cutting it by 3/4ths would throw us into another recession and bump unemployment up at least a point or two. Where would all those soldiers and defense contractors go to work?
We'll just chalk you down as a staunch proponent of government stimulus spending.

[sarcasm]

The ex-soldiers and defense contractors should find plenty of work arming/defending our schools and fire departments.

[/sarcasm]

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmunjal View Post
Because our tax revenue doesn't even begin to pay for it to the tune of $1T in deficit a year ...
Yes. We will have to raise revenue.

Someone please alert the Republicans.
citizenzen is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 26, 2012, 04:34 PM   #44
Dmunjal
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by citizenzen View Post
We'll just chalk you down as a staunch proponent of government stimulus spending.

[sarcasm]

The ex-soldiers and defense contractors should find plenty of work arming/defending our schools and fire departments.

[/sarcasm]

----------



Yes. We will have to raise revenue.

Someone please alert the Republicans.
On more than just the rich? Someone please alert the Democrats. At least Clinton had these higher rates on everyone.

Homework assignment : Please calculate how much tax rates on the middle class need to be to raise $1T more in revenue from the current $2.5T to get to the $3.5T we are spending. Of course, this doesn't even begin to make a dent in the accumulated debt or deal with the $80T in unfunded liabilities.

Hint: it's more than 50%. How do you think the average American respond to that?

My point remains. We have no idea how much government costs.

For the record, I'm good with a 3/4 reduction in defense. We did it after WW2 and can do it again.
Dmunjal is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 26, 2012, 04:34 PM   #45
leekohler
Banned
 
leekohler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmunjal View Post
So many people don't realize this. We think we can have all of these programs, trillion dollar defense budget, free health care and not have to pay for it. We'll be paying for it with $5 gas and $10 milk.
Gonna stop you right there. You said earlier you want to have an honest conversation- so stop it with the "free health care" BS. No one expects it to be free, just paid for in a different way and more efficiently. Ya know, like the rest of the world has shown us it can work.
leekohler is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 26, 2012, 04:37 PM   #46
dukebound85
macrumors P6
 
dukebound85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: 5045 feet above sea level
Quote:
Originally Posted by thewitt View Post
It would be extremely simple to adopt the gold standard again, just as Nixon threw it out in the 70s with the literal stroke of a pen.
Being on the gold standard is not all that it is cracked up to be.
dukebound85 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 26, 2012, 04:40 PM   #47
Dmunjal
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
It isn't free but highly subsidized because the premiums aren't paying for the services we receive.

I'm not against free healthcare in principal like Europe has. But we need to pay for it.

You may be willing. I may be. But most are not.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by dukebound85 View Post
Being on the gold standard is not all that it is cracked up to be.
Do you think we would have accumulated $16T in debt if we were still on the gold standard?
Dmunjal is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 26, 2012, 05:03 PM   #48
leekohler
Banned
 
leekohler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmunjal View Post
It isn't free but highly subsidized because the premiums aren't paying for the services we receive.

I'm not against free healthcare in principal like Europe has. But we need to pay for it.

You may be willing. I may be. But most are not.[COLOR="#808080"]
Then it needs to be explained to them that they are already paying for everybody, and a whole lot more than they should be.

But hey, let's go for the idealistic rather than the pragmatic. That works so well. If we don't start dealing with reality, we're screwed.

BTW- Europe does not have free health care.
leekohler is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 26, 2012, 05:03 PM   #49
Eraserhead
macrumors G4
 
Eraserhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmunjal View Post
It isn't free but highly subsidized because the premiums aren't paying for the services we receive.

I'm not against free healthcare in principal like Europe has. But we need to pay for it.

You may be willing. I may be. But most are not.


(source)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmunjal View Post
Do you think we would have accumulated $16T in debt if we were still on the gold standard?
Given people like lending to the US so much, you might well have done so.
__________________
If they have to tell you every day they are fair you can bet they arent, if they tell you they are balanced then you should know they are not - Don't Hurt me
Eraserhead is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 26, 2012, 05:12 PM   #50
Dmunjal
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eraserhead View Post
Image

(source)



Given people like lending to the US so much, you might well have done so.
I'm not defending our current healthcare system. Let's say we enact universal health care at 10% of GDP, that's still $1.5T. Where will that come from except with higher taxes? I'm assuming a balanced budget.

As for the lending, don't know if you've seen what the Fed is doing. $1T of QE in 2013 will exactly cover the expected deficit. Countries may have lent before but they've stopped now. They've gotten wiser these last few years.
Dmunjal is offline   0 Reply With Quote


Reply
MacRumors Forums > Mac Community > Community Discussion > Politics, Religion, Social Issues

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cleave Mighty Gold bumper + GlasT Nano Slim on iPhone 5S Gold! rc0310 iPhone Accessories 9 Nov 11, 2013 07:50 AM
iPad: iPhone 5s in gold is white/gold, how will the iPad 5 look in gold? bobright iPad 1 Oct 18, 2013 11:59 PM
Do you believe in Gold? Gold hits two year low as people move assets into Bitcoin. jnpy!$4g3cwk Politics, Religion, Social Issues 41 Apr 29, 2013 11:18 AM
Geneva Golden Holiday Giveaways - Gold Edition Model S Gold! Opheliax iPhone Accessories 0 Dec 3, 2012 05:44 PM
Gold Rush Mayhem - Gold Combat Free Download GamesTharle iPad Apps 0 Jul 27, 2012 06:52 AM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:18 AM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC