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Old Dec 26, 2012, 04:39 PM   #1
citizenzen
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Gun Permit Disclosure *ahem* Draws Fire

Comments?

It would seem to me to be a bad idea to list addresses of where to find guns.

Quote:
The map indicates the addresses of all pistol permit holders in Westchester and Rockland counties. Each dot represents an individual permit holder licensed to own a handgun — a pistol or revolver. The data does not include owners of long guns — rifles or shotguns — which can be purchased without a permit. Being included in this map does not mean the individual at a specific location owns a weapon, just that they are licensed to do so.

http://www.lohud.com/interactive/art...nclick_check=1
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 04:44 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by citizenzen View Post
Comments?

It would seem to me to be a bad idea to list addresses of where to find guns.

What a stupid thing to do. I'm sure criminals will love knowing what houses have and don't have guns.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 04:55 PM   #3
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It certainly puts the notion that guns protect to the ultimate test though.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 05:03 PM   #4
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The map, whilst a horrible idea, shows that even if you ban guns outright right now it wouldn't matter. Its almost amazing that there aren't more incidents.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 05:06 PM   #5
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yeah, i saw that a day or so ago....thought about posting it here...

thats ok...we are getting payback..

someone found that address and phone numbers of the writer and editorial staff responsible for this and pasted it all over the internet.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 05:07 PM   #6
Rodimus Prime
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Originally Posted by rdowns View Post
What a stupid thing to do. I'm sure criminals will love knowing what houses have and don't have guns.
well I agree it was not the right thing to do I would like to point out that it was done all with public records. I would not be surprised in the least if that same info can be accessed threw the internet from the gov directly.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 05:07 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by obeygiant View Post
Its almost amazing that there aren't more incidents.
On the contrary it shows what I and others have been saying all along...the vast majority of gun owners are responsible and safe.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 05:08 PM   #8
Rodimus Prime
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Originally Posted by glocke12 View Post
yeah, i saw that a day or so ago....thought about posting it here...

thats ok...we are getting payback..

someone found that address and phone numbers of the writer and editorial staff responsible for this and pasted it all over the internet.
difference is the first (posting all the gun owners) info was legal and done threw public record. The other on the other hand can fall in the illegal category and can easily be proved to be harassment.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 05:09 PM   #9
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well I agree it was not the right thing to do I would like to point out that it was done all with public records. I would not be surprised in the least if that same info can be accessed threw the internet from the gov directly.
actually, in all likelihood they broke the law by publishing this information:

TJN Broke the law in it's actions to post this map of gun owners:

http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?sh=prin...09388&term

Section 1. Subdivision 5 of section 400.00 of the penal law

A. 9388 2

1 (II) A REQUEST FOR THE ENTIRE LIST OF LICENSEES, OR FOR ALL LICENSEES IN A GEOGRAPHIC AREA, SHALL BE DENIED, EXCEPT TO ANY LAW ENFORCEMENT
AGENCY OR ANY ENTITY ACTING ON BEHALF OF OR PROVIDING SERVICES TO ANY LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY. FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS SUBDIVISION, THE TERM “LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY” SHALL MEAN THE DIVISION OF STATE POLICE, ANY NEW YORK STATE COUNTY SHERIFF’S DEPARTMENT, ANY POLICE DEPARTMENT OF ANY CITY, VILLAGE OR TOWN WITHIN NEW YORK STATE, THE POLICE FORCE OF ANY NEW YORK STATE AUTHORITY OR AGENCY, THE STATE POLICE FORCE OF ANY OTHER STATE, ANY FEDERAL LAW
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 05:10 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Rodimus Prime View Post
well I agree it was not the right thing to do I would like to point out that it was done all with public records. I would not be surprised in the least if that same info can be accessed threw the internet from the gov directly.
Yes, it was legally obtained. It doesn't mean it was right. They could have simply printed a story telling the public that these records are available should they wish to pursue a FOIA request.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 05:11 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Rodimus Prime View Post
difference is the first (posting all the gun owners) info was legal and done threw public record. The other on the other hand can fall in the illegal category and can easily be proved to be harassment.
peoples addresses are public information for the most part...deeds are a matter of public record...

----------

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Originally Posted by rdowns View Post
Yes, it was legally obtained. It doesn't mean it was right. They could have simply printed a story telling the public that these records are available should they wish to pursue a FOIA request.
ahem...

TJN Broke the law in it's actions to post this map of gun owners:

http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?sh=prin...09388&term

Section 1. Subdivision 5 of section 400.00 of the penal law

A. 9388 2

1 (II) A REQUEST FOR THE ENTIRE LIST OF LICENSEES, OR FOR ALL LICENSEES IN A GEOGRAPHIC AREA, SHALL BE DENIED, EXCEPT TO ANY LAW ENFORCEMENT
AGENCY OR ANY ENTITY ACTING ON BEHALF OF OR PROVIDING SERVICES TO ANY LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY. FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS SUBDIVISION, THE TERM “LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY” SHALL MEAN THE DIVISION OF STATE POLICE, ANY NEW YORK STATE COUNTY SHERIFF’S DEPARTMENT, ANY POLICE DEPARTMENT OF ANY CITY, VILLAGE OR TOWN WITHIN NEW YORK STATE, THE POLICE FORCE OF ANY NEW YORK STATE AUTHORITY OR AGENCY, THE STATE POLICE FORCE OF ANY OTHER STATE, ANY FEDERAL LAW
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 05:12 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glocke12 View Post
actually, in all likelihood they broke the law by publishing this information:

TJN Broke the law in it's actions to post this map of gun owners:

http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?sh=prin...09388&term

Section 1. Subdivision 5 of section 400.00 of the penal law

A. 9388 2

1 (II) A REQUEST FOR THE ENTIRE LIST OF LICENSEES, OR FOR ALL LICENSEES IN A GEOGRAPHIC AREA, SHALL BE DENIED, EXCEPT TO ANY LAW ENFORCEMENT
AGENCY OR ANY ENTITY ACTING ON BEHALF OF OR PROVIDING SERVICES TO ANY LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY. FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS SUBDIVISION, THE TERM “LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY” SHALL MEAN THE DIVISION OF STATE POLICE, ANY NEW YORK STATE COUNTY SHERIFF’S DEPARTMENT, ANY POLICE DEPARTMENT OF ANY CITY, VILLAGE OR TOWN WITHIN NEW YORK STATE, THE POLICE FORCE OF ANY NEW YORK STATE AUTHORITY OR AGENCY, THE STATE POLICE FORCE OF ANY OTHER STATE, ANY FEDERAL LAW
Then how did they get the infomation in the first place.

Oh yea FOIA... (aka the law enforcement claim falls apart) and the next question is why did they get it. If they did not attempt to fact being a law enforcement then something else is the matter. Someone job should be fired if they should of denied it.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 05:17 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glocke12 View Post
ahem...

TJN Broke the law in it's actions to post this map of gun owners:

http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?sh=prin...09388&term

Section 1. Subdivision 5 of section 400.00 of the penal law

A. 9388 2

1 (II) A REQUEST FOR THE ENTIRE LIST OF LICENSEES, OR FOR ALL LICENSEES IN A GEOGRAPHIC AREA, SHALL BE DENIED, EXCEPT TO ANY LAW ENFORCEMENT
AGENCY OR ANY ENTITY ACTING ON BEHALF OF OR PROVIDING SERVICES TO ANY LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY. FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS SUBDIVISION, THE TERM “LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY” SHALL MEAN THE DIVISION OF STATE POLICE, ANY NEW YORK STATE COUNTY SHERIFF’S DEPARTMENT, ANY POLICE DEPARTMENT OF ANY CITY, VILLAGE OR TOWN WITHIN NEW YORK STATE, THE POLICE FORCE OF ANY NEW YORK STATE AUTHORITY OR AGENCY, THE STATE POLICE FORCE OF ANY OTHER STATE, ANY FEDERAL LAW
How did they break the law? It doesn't say the list can't be published. It says the request shall be denied for a complete list. The list was not a complete list of gun owners, only handgun owners. Seems like the county offices screwed up if anyone did.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 05:20 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodimus Prime View Post
Then how did they get the infomation in the first place.

Oh yea FOIA... (aka the law enforcement claim falls apart) and the next question is why did they get it. If they did not attempt to fact being a law enforcement then something else is the matter. Someone job should be fired if they should of denied it.
It does not seem to me that this is information that would or should be available under the FOIA...

Philadelphia actually did something similar recently. They created a similar map that contained a variety of information related to licenses and inspection..people who had been denied a concealed carry permit for one reason or another and were appealing the decision had their names and addresses posted..in this case the information was removed within a week and the city is currently facing a lawsuit over the release of that information.

as an aside, getting denied a permit in Filthadelphia means nothing....The city is very liberal and anti-gun to begin with and has a long history of harassing gunowners.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdowns View Post
How did they break the law? It doesn't say the list can't be published. It says the request shall be denied for a complete list. The list was not a complete list of gun owners, only handgun owners. Seems like the county offices screwed up if anyone did.
from the sound of it, they may have possibly posed as an LEO to get this information? who knows what the heck happened.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 05:26 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by glocke12 View Post
from the sound of it, they may have possibly posed as an LEO to get this information? who knows what the heck happened.

From the sound of what? I see that nowhere in any of the articles I've read. Their own page simply says…


Quote:
To create the map, The Journal News submitted Freedom of Information requests for the names and addresses of all pistol permit holders in Westchester, Rockland and Putnam. By state law, the information is public record.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 05:28 PM   #16
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The outrage over this is stupid.

All of this information is public records obtained by a freedom of information request.

Quote:
The map indicates the addresses of all pistol permit holders in Westchester and Rockland counties. Each dot represents an individual permit holder licensed to own a handgun — a pistol or revolver. The data does not include owners of long guns — rifles or shotguns — which can be purchased without a permit. Being included in this map does not mean the individual at a specific location owns a weapon, just that they are licensed to do so.

Data for all permit categories, unrestricted carry, premises, business, employment, target and hunting, is included, but permit information is not available on an individual basis.

To create the map, The Journal News submitted Freedom of Information requests for the names and addresses of all pistol permit holders in Westchester, Rockland and Putnam. By state law, the information is public record.

The funniest part about this is the arguments from the gun nuts that "having a gun at your home deters crime" have changed their tune and now they are "targets because they have a gun in their home". Right. You can't have it both ways.


Quote:
Originally Posted by glocke12 View Post
thats ok...we are getting payback..

someone found that address and phone numbers of the writer and editorial staff responsible for this and pasted it all over the internet.
Nice pre-teen mentality there. No wonder we can't make any progress in this country when a portion of the population act like petulant children when there's something they disagree with. That's really going to make everyone else take you seriously.

People need to grow the **** up and remember how to act like adults instead of 5 year olds.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 05:35 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by zioxide View Post
The outrage over this is stupid.

All of this information is public records obtained by a freedom of information request.




The funniest part about this is the arguments from the gun nuts that "having a gun at your home deters crime" have changed their tune and now they are "targets because they have a gun in their home". Right. You can't have it both ways.




Nice pre-teen mentality there. No wonder we can't make any progress in this country when a portion of the population act like petulant children when there's something they disagree with. That's really going to make everyone else take you seriously.

People need to grow the **** up and remember how to act like adults instead of 5 year olds.
maybe you should be directing those comments towards the writer and staff of that newspaper...since they seem to be the ones that have an issue with gunowners.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 05:41 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by glocke12 View Post
maybe you should be directing those comments towards the writer and staff of that newspaper...since they seem to be the ones that have an issue with gunowners.
The newspaper isn't harassing any of these people or calling them up and threatening them.


They published already-public information. Get over it.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 05:53 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by zioxide View Post
The newspaper isn't harassing any of these people or calling them up and threatening them.


They published already-public information. Get over it.

Come on, they did something irresponsible. There is no reason to demonize legal gun owners. If you want to know if your neighbors own guns, file a FOIA request.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 05:57 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by rdowns View Post
How did they break the law? It doesn't say the list can't be published. It says the request shall be denied for a complete list. The list was not a complete list of gun owners, only handgun owners. Seems like the county offices screwed up if anyone did.
To own a handgun in New York (except NYC), they have to be permitted. Rifles and shotguns do not. So, it is a complete list of permitted handgun owner locations.

Had they published the owner names, it would be a different issue.

----------

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Originally Posted by rdowns View Post
Come on, they did something irresponsible. There is no reason to demonize legal gun owners. If you want to know if your neighbors own guns, file a FOIA request.
I agree, it was irresponsible.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 06:13 PM   #21
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Had they published the owner names, it would be a different issue.
I believe they did "publish" the owners names. If you mouse over a map dot you get a name as well as an address.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 06:28 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by citizenzen View Post
I believe they did "publish" the owners names. If you mouse over a map dot you get a name as well as an address.
Oh snap... Thanks for pointing that out.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 07:25 PM   #23
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Just another example of the media making themselves the story. They knew the type of reaction this would get and all the free pub it would get as a result.

End of the day they published private info about citizens who had not broken any laws. This paper's staff should be ashamed of themselves.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 07:26 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdowns View Post
Come on, they did something irresponsible. There is no reason to demonize legal gun owners. If you want to know if your neighbors own guns, file a FOIA request.
I don't think this demonizing at all. If I lived near someone with multiple handguns and who seemed a little paranoid or easily upset, it would keep me from tip toeing near the fence lone at night and might well help me decide to move.

I don't know why handgun purchases need to be kept private. Is it so the homeowner is ensured the element of surprise?
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 07:29 PM   #25
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I don't think this demonizing at all. If I lived near someone with multiple handguns and who seemed a little paranoid or easily upset, it would keep me from tip toeing near the fence lone at night and might well help me decide to move.

I don't know why handgun purchases need to be kept private. Is it so the homeowner is ensured the element of surprise?
Why exactly is it anyone's business who owns what pieces of private property?
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