Gun Permit Disclosure *ahem* Draws Fire

[glocke12]

Originally Posted by Ugg

I don't think this demonizing at all. If I lived near someone with multiple handguns and who seemed a little paranoid or easily upset, it would keep me from tip toeing near the fence lone at night and might well help me decide to move.

I don't know why handgun purchases need to be kept private. Is it so the homeowner is ensured the element of surprise?

maybe we should just make public the records of those who suffer mental illness and are paranoid as a result of that?

[Aspasia]

Originally Posted by Ugg

I don't think this demonizing at all. If I lived near someone with multiple handguns and who seemed a little paranoid or easily upset, it would keep me from tip toeing near the fence lone at night and might well help me decide to move.

I don't know why handgun purchases need to be kept private. Is it so the homeowner is ensured the element of surprise?

The bad guys certainly will be happy to find out who doesn't have any firearms.

[Ugg]

Originally Posted by ugahairydawgs

Why exactly is it anyone's business who owns what pieces of private property?

Why is it so important to hide them? Cars, trucks, boats, homes, clothing and jewelry are publicly flaunted in this 'Keep up with the Jones' world.'

I think it's only common sense that neighbors have the right to know about dangerous weapon, if for no other reason to tell their kids which houses to stay away from

[glocke12]

Originally Posted by Ugg

Why is it so important to hide them? Cars, trucks, boats, homes, clothing and jewelry are publicly flaunted in this 'Keep up with the Jones' world.'

I think it's only common sense that neighbors have the right to know about dangerous weapon, if for no other reason to tell their kids which houses to stay away from

you have got to be kidding me...

[skunk]

Originally Posted by obeygiant

The map, whilst a horrible idea, shows that even if you ban guns outright right now it wouldn't matter. Its almost amazing that there aren't more incidents.

Well obviously you wouldn't just ban guns outright, you'd have to send in UN troops to confiscate the ones out there already....

[duneriderltr450]

Hilarious though that someone posted the authors home address. Hopefully someone will go to his house in the middle of the night and slash his tires.

[glocke12]

Originally Posted by skunk

Well obviously you wouldn't just ban guns outright, you'd have to send in UN troops to confiscate the ones out there already....

yeah good luck with that one..

[webbuzz]

Originally Posted by Ugg

Why is it so important to hide them? Cars, trucks, boats, homes, clothing and jewelry are publicly flaunted in this 'Keep up with the Jones' world.'

I think it's only common sense that neighbors have the right to know about dangerous weapon, if for no other reason to tell their kids which houses to stay away from

From a Huffington Post story on this.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2362530.html

Others worried that the names would expose law enforcement officials. "You have judges, policemen, retired policemen, FBI agents — they have permits. Once you allow the public to see where they live, that puts them in harm’s way," Paul Piperato, the Rockland county clerk, told Journal News reporter Worley.

Is that common sense?

----------

Originally Posted by skunk

Well obviously you wouldn't just ban guns outright, you'd have to send in UN troops to confiscate the ones out there already....

We have a much larger problem than firearms if the U.N. is used for confiscation.

[mrkramer]

Originally Posted by zioxide

The funniest part about this is the arguments from the gun nuts that "having a gun at your home deters crime" have changed their tune and now they are "targets because they have a gun in their home". Right. You can't have it both ways.

Thats what I thought when I read this. If guns really deter crime then these gun owners should be happy because obviously burglers will see they have a gun and stay away.

I do think this is a good thing to have published so people can know which houses to keep kids away from, and also if you're thinking of moving into a neighbourhood it can give you an idea of how safe it is. I know I wouldn't want to live somewhere most people felt a need to have a gun...

[glocke12]

Originally Posted by webbuzz

From a Huffington Post story on this.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2362530.html

Others worried that the names would expose law enforcement officials. "You have judges, policemen, retired policemen, FBI agents — they have permits. Once you allow the public to see where they live, that puts them in harm’s way," Paul Piperato, the Rockland county clerk, told Journal News reporter Worley.
Is that common sense?[COLOR="#808080"]
.

Ten bucks says someone chimes in and says they obviously should have excluded the important people and only showed the names and addys of the peasants.

[webbuzz]

Originally Posted by glocke12

Ten bucks says someone chimes in and says they obviously should have excluded the important people and only showed the names and addys of the peasants.

Indeed.

[Rodimus Prime]

Originally Posted by glocke12

maybe we should just make public the records of those who suffer mental illness and are paranoid as a result of that?

just keep digging the hole you are in.

You are making gun owners look like nothing more than nut jobs that scream do not touch my guns including assault rifles and extended mags and if you need those for protections you have other issues but hate it when others can find out.

Now you want people who have no control over part of their health to be public record.

Guns you have a choice. Mental illness there is no choice on that. It should be kept private.

[citizenzen]

Originally Posted by glocke12

Ten bucks says someone chimes in and says they obviously should have excluded the important people and only showed the names and addys of the peasants.

Really by that post.

Anyway ...

The problem I see here is that disclosures like this will have a chilling effect on gun owners. Too many of them are already paranoid that the government is out to confiscate their firearms. Publicly posting maps like this threatens to drive them further underground and increase their suspicion at a time we need their trust and cooperation.

[glocke12]

Originally Posted by Rodimus Prime

just keep digging the hole you are in.

You are making gun owners look like nothing more than nut jobs that scream do not touch my guns including assault rifles and extended mags and if you need those for protections you have other issues but hate it when others can find out.

Now you want people who have no control over part of their health to be public record.

Guns you have a choice. Mental illness there is no choice on that. It should be kept private.

frankly, to be quite honest with you it is no ones ****ing business but mine what I own.

[citizenzen]

Originally Posted by glocke12

frankly, to be quite honest with you it is no ones ****ing business but mine what I own.

Except you car ... house ... and probably a number of other things I can't think of.

We also get to know if you're married or divorced ...

if you're bankrupt ...

arrested ...



Edit: On second thought, I don't think car registration is a public record.

Edit II: If you live in California and have a a record in the following department[s], it very well may be open to the public ...

GOVERNMENT CODE
SECTION 6250-6270

6250. In enacting this chapter, the Legislature, mindful of the
right of individuals to privacy, finds and declares that access to
information concerning the conduct of the people's business is a
fundamental and necessary right of every person in this state.

253.4. (a) Every agency may adopt regulations stating the
procedures to be followed when making its records available in
accordance with this section.

The following state and local bodies shall establish written
guidelines for accessibility of records. A copy of these guidelines
shall be posted in a conspicuous public place at the offices of these
bodies, and a copy of the guidelines shall be available upon request
free of charge to any person requesting that body's records:

Department of Motor Vehicles
Department of Consumer Affairs
Department of Transportation
Department of Real Estate
Department of Corrections
Department of the Youth Authority
Department of Justice
Department of Insurance
Department of Corporations
Department of Managed Health Care
Secretary of State
State Air Resources Board
Department of Water Resources
Department of Parks and Recreation
San Francisco Bay Conservation and Development Commission
State Board of Equalization
State Department of Health Care Services
Employment Development Department
State Department of Public Health
State Department of Social Services
State Department of State Hospitals
State Department of Developmental Services
State Department of Alcohol and Drug Abuse
Office of Statewide Health Planning and Development
Public Employees' Retirement System
Teachers' Retirement Board
Department of Industrial Relations
Department of General Services
Department of Veterans Affairs
Public Utilities Commission
California Coastal Commission
State Water Resources Control Board
San Francisco Bay Area Rapid Transit District
All regional water quality control boards
Los Angeles County Air Pollution Control District
Bay Area Air Pollution Control District
Golden Gate Bridge, Highway and Transportation District
Department of Toxic Substances Control
Office of Environmental Health Hazard Assessment

(b) Guidelines and regulations adopted pursuant to this section
shall be consistent with all other sections of this chapter and shall
reflect the intention of the Legislature to make the records
accessible to the public. The guidelines and regulations adopted
pursuant to this section shall not operate to limit the hours public
records are open for inspection as prescribed in Section 6253.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/di...file=6250-6270

[yg17]

Originally Posted by citizenzen

Except you car ... house ... and probably a number of other things I can't think of.

We also get to know if you're married or divorced ...

if you're bankrupt ...

arrested ...



Edit: On second thought, I don't think car registration is a public record.

Edit II: If you live in California and have a a record in the following department[s], it very well may be open to the public ...

In St. Louis County, all you need is someone's name (or address, you don't even need to know their name) and you can view the cars they own, how much their personal property taxes on their vehicles are, and if they paid them. Even has the date they paid them so you can see if they paid on time or not. For example, here's what a $250 million contract with the Angels will buy you:



Not bad for working 6 months out of the year. Thankfully he paid his $17,000 tax bill before the December 31 deadline.

If they had a similar thing for gun owners, I wouldn't mind. If you don't want your information showing up on there, don't buy a gun or move. Just like I can get rid of my car or move if I don't want my information showing up there.

[citizenzen]

Originally Posted by yg17

If you don't want your information showing up on there, don't buy a gun or move.

LOL!

America. Love it or leave it.

[thewitt]

Just another reason to never register a gun purchase. I'm sure this publishing will drive more people to hide their weapons from the government.

[CorvusCamenarum]

The rag in question did this for one reason only - to try to shame gun owners.

Originally Posted by Ugg

I think it's only common sense that neighbors have the right to know about dangerous weapon, if for no other reason to tell their kids which houses to stay away from

So you'd be fine with a newspaper publishing the names and addresses of everyone in an area who has, say, has HIV/AIDS? I think it's only common sense that neighbors have the right to know about dangerous disease, if for no other reason to tell their kids which houses to stay away from

[hulugu]

Originally Posted by rdowns

Come on, they did something irresponsible. There is no reason to demonize legal gun owners. If you want to know if your neighbors own guns, file a FOIA request.

Yeah, there's really not much to be learned from specifically getting this data that adds to the story. Really, we don't need the names or addresses specifically, we need to see how dense gun ownership is or to see where cracks exist in the system (such as 43 percent were named John Smith, for example)
The newspaper basically just shovel'd out their data onto a Google Map.

A technical note, this wasn't a Freedom of Information Act request, but rather a State Open Record Law request; FOIA is a Federal law and each state has their own laws about records.

Originally Posted by ugahairydawgs

Why exactly is it anyone's business who owns what pieces of private property?

Well, for cars and houses, we have entire agencies to know about private property, so it's not beyond the pale. Moreover, we can review your status on adoptions, driving record, and contact with the law. Why can't I know if you have a concealed carry permit?

There's a weird disconnect with gun owners. If thieves believe we have guns, we're safe, but if thieves know we have guns, they'll come to our house for those guns.

It can't be both.

Originally Posted by CorvusCamenarum

...
So you'd be fine with a newspaper publishing the names and addresses of everyone in an area who has, say, has HIV/AIDS? I think it's only common sense that neighbors have the right to know about dangerous disease, if for no other reason to tell their kids which houses to stay away from

HIV/AIDS are only communicable through a few vectors, including sexual activity and at that point, don't we know which way our guns are pointed?

This analogy doesn't work. If you want to make such an analogy, try required quarantines during the 1952 Polio outbreak.

[citizenzen]

Originally Posted by thewitt

Just another reason to never register a gun purchase. I'm sure this publishing will drive more people to hide their weapons from the government.

I have to agree. This is just going to drive people underground.

[rdowns]

Originally Posted by thewitt

Just another reason to never register a gun purchase. I'm sure this publishing will drive more people to hide their weapons from the government.

Responsible gun owners, indeed.

[725032]

Welcome to the Wild, Wild West... and here is your map book with places to find guns marked with a cross.

Just wow!

[rdowns]

You had to know this was coming.

Blogger Christopher Fountain Hits Back Against Gun Owners' Map, Publishes Addresses Of Journal News Staff

Blogger Christopher Fountain retaliated against a New York newspaper, which recently published the addresses of local gun owners, by publishing the addresses and phone numbers of the newspaper's staff.

The Journal News published the names and addresses of legal gun owners in Westchester and Rockland counties. The paper has been criticized for allegedly putting people in danger.

On Monday, Fountain began publishing the names, addresses and contact information of the newspaper's publisher and editor, and staff members who worked on the gun owners' map. Readers came up with information for other staff members, and Fountain listed those employees as well.

The blogger explained why he did it, speaking on CNN Thursday. "Somehow, [The Journal News was] conflating legal gun owners with some crazed, tormented devil up in Newtown and putting the two together," he alleged. "And I was offended by that and I wondered how they'd like it if their addresses were published."

[ugahairydawgs]

Originally Posted by rdowns

Responsible gun owners, indeed.

Not a gun owner, but it would be hard to blame someone for trying to hide their purchase these days seeing as how those who are anti-gun seem suspect of anyone who dares to own one.