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Old Dec 27, 2012, 04:06 PM   #126
wizard
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Originally Posted by bedifferent View Post
lmfao! Best. Comment. Ever.

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You're assuming a causality that may not be the only part of the equation. Perhaps Mac Pro sales are slumping BECAUSE Apple has chosen almost three years to update it. I'm certain if Apple placed even 1% of its iOS focus on professional systems, they would sell more. Blindly stating sales are low because of A and not B is rather akin to putting the cart before the horse.
I have no problem with this at all. It is a certainty that sales slumped over the last three years of neglect. However that is only part of the story, sales have also slumped because of the lack of a compelling reason to buy the machine and the excessively high price for what USERS need in a desktop machine. At best many Mac Pro sales where to users that really needed a desktop machine which the Pro really isn't. Thus the abandonment of Apple by people needing a desktop computer.
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Keep in mind, iOS devices are far cheaper and cross-platform, thus would draw more marketshare and growth. Statistics are necessary in analyzing marketshare and growth and realizing that ones marketshare can still shrink yet be stronger than pervious quarters if overall marketshare grows. As for the Mac Pro, there are many who need a powerful desktop system with a good amount of screen real estate and room for upgradability. That will never change. Perhaps the form will be smaller, but the features necessary for that line will [for the near future] be consistent.
Yep! The idea that the need for desktops is dying is sort of garbage, if anything I suspect we will see iOS devices driving sales of desktops in the future. However here is he catch, iOS devices are cross platform, if Apple doesn't have a compelling desktop solution then sales will go to other hardware. This is one reason why I think Apple needs to pull head from behind and refactor the desktop line up to reflect the reality of iOS devices. Everyday it becomes far easier to replace a laptop with an iOS device, but an iOS device can't realistically replace a computer for everybody.

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Apple is likely selling 20,000 a quarter not 25,000 a month. 25,000 a month would be well over 250,000 a year and I don't think anybody believes Apple is doing that well with the Mac Pro. They would be doing real good to move a 100,000 a year.

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Originally Posted by MacDav View Post
Apparently you failed to realize I was joking? Besides, you are quite ignorant about the MacPro. Yes, it is the most expensive box and sells the least. The last "semi-upgrade" in 2011 was selling about 25,000 units per month.
If they do a real upgrade and do it right in 2013 those numbers will at least double. All the pros who use these machines to make a living are waiting with money in hand. You wouldn't know about that would you. I know about it because I'm one of them.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 04:25 PM   #127
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Made in US of A

sounds good
but on my MacBookPro
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 04:25 PM   #128
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As long as the plant isn't located in Michigan the workforce won't be an issue. I'm not to certain where this idea comes from that the conditions in Chinese plants are so much different than US based plants.

Think about this folks, everybody seems to make jokes about the Panda Express at the Foxconn plants in China but do any of these wonder boys work in a large US based location? Even Apple has its cafeteria, snack bars and "break rooms". Any manufacturing plant will have a break room of some sort with food and drink available if it is big enough it will have its own dining hall. The alternative is a plant surrounded with restaurants, bars and most likely a few strip joints. Asian cities aren't much different.

The big problem in America right now is that so few are involved in the manufacturing community that they really don't have a clue as to what goes on in an American factory nor the difference between an American factory and a one located someplace else. They aren't that different folks, so,peaches are lax with respect to safety some employ really stupid workers that do ore harm than good and kissing the bosses a$$ is a certain way to advancement world wide.

As to trial run, I doubt it. A huge, massive amount of energy goes into bringing something like this to reality. This is not something that happens overnight and likely has been in the works for years. The entire factory, its machinery and the product it is making likely where designed together. You don't invest in something like this to fail. This brings up another thing, the Mini sells OK so a redesign for manufacturing is less of a risk than what is about to happen to the Mac Pro. An automated factory to build an entirely new Mac Pro is a far greater risk because you don't know if the product will be accepted.

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Originally Posted by wizzerandchips View Post
Air mail...they will be shipped in a container...and the cost is minimal given what you can get in a 40ft

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Im guessing this is just a trial..to see how the US workforce do work,and if its viable for more to be produced in the US, starting small on a low volume product, seems themac mini is here to stay then.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 04:38 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by 92jlee View Post
Am I the only person who thinks this is pointless as it will be run by foxconn?
What difference does it make?
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Yes, some tax revenue from engineers will go back into the US economy, but will that even offset the tax breaks the govt would have offered to get them to build a factory in their state?
Probably not but that is an advantage Apple has, the mayor and governor will drop to their knees to get this plant so that they can feather their cap. After the tax breaks they will simply move the factory someplace new declaring the need a modern facility.
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The profits of the business will be going first to foxconn (owed by China so paid to China) and then Apple who avoids most tax anyway.
Last I knew they where a corporation and thus the profits go to the owners, less taxes here and there.
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Just seems like a marketing scheme targeted at people who don't understand the basics of economics. 'ohh it says made in the US, let's buy this over that Chinese product over there because we are supporting our jobs'
Of course it is a marketing scheme. However there is a bit of wisdom in moving some of your production out of China due to the very real possibility that war will disrupt the flow of goods. North Korea and to a lesser extent China are very unstable countries with much unrest. So simply from the standpoint of not having all of your eggs (computers) in one basket it makes sense to spread manufacturing around.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 04:52 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by Umbongo View Post
Thanks. His numbers are off by a bit as Apple don't do 1.5 million desktops a quarter; it has been an average of 1.15m during the last 3 years where sales have remained steady in this area.
Yep a very very large percentage of those sales are iMacs followed up buy the Mini. So if the iMac and Mini take a conservative 80% of that 1.15 Million what does that leave for the Mac Pro? My gut feeling is that iMac and Mini are pulling in close to 95% of those sales.
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We'll probably never know exactly, but the numbers do show that it is a low figure and the feedback shows it is sadly in decline.
Yes again! The only question is how much of the Mac Pros declining sales is due to Apples stupidity with respect to managing the platform. I'd have to say that they have driven away a food part of their customer base all by themselves.

Even the Minis sales have been flat for awhile now in the US, it will be interesting to see how sales of the Ivy Bridge Mini are going. The current Mini is very much a mixed bag of good and bad, so it really looks like Apple just doesn't get it when it comes to the desktop.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 05:01 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by iphone495 View Post
Good for Apple. Probably bad for AAPL.
I'm not so sure. Apple is currently vulnerable to being held hostage in any dispute between the US and China. China is flexing its muscles in the South China Sea, and over some islets near Okinawa that Japan also claims. If China and Japan get into a "warm" dispute over them, the US is bound by a Treaty to come to Japan's defence, though in this case Japan will not directly threatened so China may try to convince the US to sit it out by delaying Apple shipments out of China. Dock inspections to confirm export rules are being met, for example. Apple has at most a few days worth of product on the shelves. An Apple that is not selling anything would have a huge hit on the US economy (and to a lesser extant the European one as well.) Plus shake confidence in Apple's ability to deliver products in the future.

I see this move as overdue, and as Apple diversifying where they make stuff so that they are not crippled by any single geo-political event.
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Originally Posted by Macman45 View Post
It will be interesting to see how Foxconn handle this. Labor laws in the USA are so far removed from what is considered "The Norm" in China. Workers in the USA are not going to buy into the Foxconn ethos without it's overhaul and modification wholesale. I wonder if this is linked to Apples' so called drive to improve conditions and pay for Foxconn workers in China.
You do know that Foxconn operates factories around the globe? And as far we we know operates those factories according the local laws and customs?
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Originally Posted by 92jlee View Post
...
Just seems like a marketing scheme targeted at people who don't understand the basics of economics. 'ohh it says made in the US, let's buy this over that Chinese product over there because we are supporting our jobs'
I doubt there is any marketing here at all. The only people who are noticing are we tech-heads. The average consumer - who buys 99% of the stuff - will likely never know, or care, or notice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvin View Post
....

Lastly, am I the only one here to remember that the US pioneered assembly lines and factory production? We've done it before and we can certainly do it again. I hope apple becomes the 'ford' of our generation.
Actually, I think that was the British who needed to make lots of cheap weapons for the navy that held the British Empire together. It was Henry Ford who adopted the idea for cars, though.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 05:02 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by pgiguere1 View Post
Twist: The 2013 Mac mini actually is the new Mac for professionals promised by Tim Cook.
Don't make me happy....
Desktop CPU, desktop GPU for hard core gamers,
removable RAM, thunderbolted up to yin-yang, removable HDD bays,
top flight DAC for music lovers, multimedia powerhouse
for iTunes fans around the world...

Will this dream come true?

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Old Dec 27, 2012, 05:06 PM   #133
wizard
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Further evidence that you don't understand English.

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Originally Posted by krravi View Post
I rest my case.
The point is it takes many to produce these machines not one.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 05:18 PM   #134
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I'm glad to see it being built in the US but it's still being made by FoxConn. I'd like to see it built by a USA company. Come on Apple, help give US jobs to US companies.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 05:42 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by Appleisntpefect View Post
Better buy one now before the quality goes into the toilet.

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Name one please?
Hp and Google make some products over here.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 06:29 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by Obi-Wan Kubrick View Post
I'm glad to see it being built in the US but it's still being made by FoxConn. I'd like to see it built by a USA company. Come on Apple, help give US jobs to US companies.
American owned companies were free to bid on the contract.

If Apple sold its products primarily to Americans, then perhaps there might be some logic to wanting an American company and American jobs.

However... since Apple is a global company and in fact its products are sold to more non-Americans, and since most of the Apple design and engineering jobs are located in the US I could argue that any new Apple assembly plant should be located outside of both the US and China.

In today's global economy where something is made and where it is sold is simply a matter of economics. The Americans were instrumental in opening up global free-trade - often against the wishes of other nations - because at the time it benefited Americans. Now that other nations have modernized and upgraded their manufacturing infrastructure and can compete with American companies you want to abandon free-trade agreements. Why not learn to compete again, instead?

It is interesting that it is a Chinese company that seems to have the courage to take this risk. They will need to invest a lot of money to create the supply and deliver infrastructure needed; to design, engineer, and build the actual factory; and to hire and train the hundreds of people needed to run the place. And if they can't deliver the products on time and on price Apple will abandon the idea and Foxconn will lose their investment.... likely hundreds of millions of dollars.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 07:19 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by yossi View Post
Did someone tell Foxconn they will have to pay workers here $15-$20 an hour and not $1.50? They should see some savings in not having to install suicide nets though.
At least Foxconn doesn't have to buy guns in China.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obi-Wan Kubrick View Post
I'm glad to see it being built in the US but it's still being made by FoxConn. I'd like to see it built by a USA company. Come on Apple, help give US jobs to US companies.
There is no upside to doing that so it's unlikely to be done.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 08:23 PM   #138
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Made or Assembled in America...

I will be among the first to take my hard earned american dollar and buy one. and place it next to my 55" Vizio.
"Vizio is a privately held producer of consumer electronics, based in Irvine, California, USA. It was founded in October 2002 as V Inc"
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 08:23 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by SomeDudeAsking View Post
There is no upside to doing that so it's unlikely to be done.
If there's a financial incentive, then there's a strong chance it would happen as money is what it's all about to MBA's, CPA's, .... Otherwise, No.

In some cases, this actually is occurring (US manufacturers that still have US production facilities, such as final assembly, are sourcing assemblies/components back to US firms operating within the US due to things such as supply problems causing missed deadlines that have financial penalties associated to being late, increased shipping costs from Asia to the US, reduced waste and rework, ...).

One example I'll share, would be with using Antec as a supplier. A company I used to work for sourced them as a toroidal transformer supplier. Problem was, we never had our shipments on time (13wk lead time tended to turn into 26wks), thus causing us delays that cost us money due to delivery date penalties set in the contracts. So we in-sourced to another transformer manufacturer here in the US, and those issues went away.

So even though the cost per unit was a bit more, the shipping cost was reduced, and there weren't penalties associated with late part deliveries. Quality of the final product also improved as a result of fewer failures in the field from bad transformers (they'd get in a hurry, so QC on their end was all over the place). We made more money, and customers were happier by not having to call for field repair. Win-win for us and our customers, though not so much for Antec.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 08:40 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by pgiguere1 View Post
Twist: The 2013 Mac mini actually is the new Mac for professionals promised by Tim Cook.
This is probably a more accurate statement than we want it to be.

Does this mean that the underpowered Mac Mini will be the new Mac Pro making both the Mac Mini & the new Mac Pro "Mad in the USA" correct? At least the Mac Pro will have the current generation of cpus instead of the current 2 - 3 generations old cpu tech.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 09:19 PM   #141
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There seems to be a lot of **** coming from Apple since Jobs died, virtually none of which has much to do with making great products.

Let's hope they can eliver on something that actually matters.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 11:33 PM   #142
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There seems to be a lot of **** coming from Apple since Jobs died, virtually none of which has much to do with making great products.

Let's hope they can eliver on something that actually matters.
Apple lost its visionary. It's a lot like Microsoft without Bill Gates (OK, he wasn't a visionary, but he was a shrewd business man). Balmer is absolutely clueless on how to keep Microsoft on top. Similarly, Steve Cook is without creative vision. He'll just keep updating what already exists and paying people to come back from retirement because he has no idea what to do with the hardware from here.

Of course, this could be a good thing if they'd get someone in there that isn't obsessed with nothing but making computers thinner and smaller instead of more powerful (in whatever package size that requires to stay on top in all areas, especially graphics which have really taken a dump over the years and sadly once upon a time in the classic era, that was one of Apple's strong suits compared to PCs (which before Windows95 were a graphical non-standard beyond VGA nightmare running out of Dos).
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 12:04 AM   #143
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LMAO. 250k a month? Even if those numbers are real (doubtful), that would mean a whole 300k sold a year. Wowzers. I think Apple sells that many lightning cables in a week.

Oh, and nice year old article you posted trying to back up your BS numbers. The dude is just guesing. He even say's so! Wow, nice reach.



Does Apple even display the Pro in stores?
It's seems apparent that you have trouble paying attention to details. The figure was 25,000 not 250,000. Furthermore, using year old numbers is the correct way to view things since that was the last minor upgrade of the MacPro. Almost all users are waiting for the next upgrade to buy, so current sales will be very low. I want a new MacPro, you don't and don't really care. Are we done? Or would you like to waste more of your time?

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Originally Posted by hleewell View Post
Don't make me happy....
Desktop CPU, desktop GPU for hard core gamers,
removable RAM, thunderbolted up to yin-yang, removable HDD bays,
top flight DAC for music lovers, multimedia powerhouse
for iTunes fans around the world...

Will this dream come true?

Image
The new Cube.

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Originally Posted by HenryDJP View Post
I'll be switching to Windows if that happens.
Don't worry, I changed my mind I have more important things to do.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 10:24 AM   #144
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It's seems apparent that you have trouble paying attention to details. The figure was 25,000 not 250,000. Furthermore, using year old numbers is the correct way to view things since that was the last minor upgrade of the MacPro. Almost all users are waiting for the next upgrade to buy, so current sales will be very low. I want a new MacPro, you don't and don't really care. Are we done? Or would you like to waste more of your time?

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The new Cube.

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Don't worry, I changed my mind I have more important things to do.
25k, a guess, from over a year ago, means nothing today. Pro's were probably still selling back at that point. Today? Maybe a couple thousand a month, at best.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 12:24 PM   #145
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Quite the opposite. Overseas workers do not get paid as much nor complain as much as Western Workers would. You would be really lucky if the price stayed the same. I see a $50-$100 premium for the move.

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Originally Posted by JS3 View Post
Surprised apple is still making Mac mini. Wouldn't the price go down if it was made here?
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 03:54 PM   #146
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Another stab in the back for the Mac Pro hopefuls. Given the weight, it would have made more financial sense to build Mac Pros in the US to save on shipping.

I am leaning more and more toward the possibility that the Mac Pro is being written off completely.

And I am leaning more and more to building a dual-CPU hackint0sh that will blow away any current (or past) Mac Pro.

(of course, once I build it, Apple will release a new Mac Pro).
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 05:04 PM   #147
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so what does this mean for the Mac Pro?
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 07:40 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by Rustus Maximus View Post
Wait, wait, wait...there's a Mac PRO??
Yeah, its the one Apple product that hasn't been properly updated in years.

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Originally Posted by iLilana View Post
I think Pro will show up at the next big show
Yeah, it'll be a macmini with an extra Thunderbolt port and a 3rd HD: Macmini Pro

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glideslope View Post
Cube II
I could imagine that: A computer with the same footprint as the Macmini, but at double or triple the height to allow for extra bays / ports to be added and removed by the user. Actually, it would't be a bad idea, since they already have expertise in making the Macmini's initial frame.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 08:16 PM   #149
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Both rumors could be correct, if a new Mac Mini turns out to be the new Mac Pro. A Mac Mini Pro or something like that. But that's just a feeling/fear I've had recently about the Pro.
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 04:13 AM   #150
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Queue the wailing about the Mac Pro being dead in 3... 2... 1...
"DigiTimes reports" Chill down...
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