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Old Dec 28, 2012, 08:33 AM   #26
skunk
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Originally Posted by NickZac View Post
the amount of taxes that most US companies pay avoid is staggering...
Corrected for truth.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 08:39 AM   #27
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Corrected for truth.
I'm so glad the expert on US taxes has arrived

Really, not every company in the US gets out of taxes. Loopholes=bad...no reason not to close them, but the US tax rate is high.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 08:44 AM   #28
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It may look as if you pay a lot, but you really don't.

Quote:
May 2, 2011

U.S. Business Has High Tax Rates but Pays Less

By DAVID KOCIENIEWSKI

The United States may soon wind up with a distinction that makes business leaders cringe — the highest corporate tax rate in the world.

Topping out at 35 percent, America’s official corporate income tax rate trails that of only Japan, at 39.5 percent, which has said it plans to lower its rate. It is nearly triple Ireland’s and 10 percentage points higher than in Denmark, Austria or China. To help companies here stay competitive, many executives say, Congress should lower it.

But by taking advantage of myriad breaks and loopholes that other countries generally do not offer, United States corporations pay only slightly more on average than their counterparts in other industrial countries. And some American corporations use aggressive strategies to pay less — often far less — than their competitors abroad and at home. A Government Accountability Office study released in 2008 found that 55 percent of United States companies paid no federal income taxes during at least one year in a seven-year period it studied.

The paradox of the United States tax code — high rates with a bounty of subsidies, shelters and special breaks — has made American multinationals “world leaders in tax avoidance,” according to Edward D. Kleinbard, a professor at the University of Southern California who was head of the Congressional joint committee on taxes. This has profound implications for businesses, the economy and the federal budget.

As Congress wrestles with how to get the deficit under control, one big point of contention is whether spending cuts will need to be accompanied by an increase in taxes on some individuals or businesses. Facing a full-court press from business leaders who say the tax system is outdated and onerous, President Obama, Congress and business leaders have been warily negotiating various proposals, though mostly about whether to cut the top corporate rate and to tighten tax laws and not about whether to increase revenue.

The United States is virtually alone in trying to tax its multinational corporations on their foreign earnings, but it allows companies to avoid those taxes indefinitely by keeping profits overseas. That encourages companies to use accounting maneuvers to shift profits to low-tax countries and to invest profits offshore, says David S. Miller, a partner at Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft in New York.

Honeywell International, the New Jersey company that makes things as diverse as aerospace components and First Alert smoke detectors, reported in regulatory filings that in the last five years, it paid cash income taxes in the United States and abroad equal to 15 percent of its profits. On Friday, a Honeywell spokeswoman pointed out that the company had since made a large pension contribution, which effectively cut its profits and made its tax rate closer to 22 percent.

A major domestic competitor, United Technologies, reported an average of 24 percent over that time. A German rival, Siemens, reported 29 percent of its total profit.

In addition to being complex and uneven, the United States corporate tax code is inefficient and has become a diminishing source of revenue. Corporate taxes accounted for about 9 percent of all federal revenue in 2010. At $191 billion, they were equal to 1.3 percent of the nation’s gross domestic product. Most industrial countries collect more from companies, about 2.5 percent of output. Only a portion of that disparity can be explained by the many types of businesses in the United States that elect to be taxed at an individual rate.

“Whether the test is fairness or efficiency, the U.S. system gets really low marks,” said Michelle Hanlon, an M.I.T. professor who says the country needs to completely revamp the way it taxes corporations.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/bu...ates.html?_r=0
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 09:07 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by skunk View Post
It may look as if you pay a lot, but you really don't.

[/indent]
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/bu...ates.html?_r=0
But as you yourself noted in the article, it is not across the board 100%. It would be nice to close the loopholes for fairness and use a simple, standardized tax code. I'm not sure how it is in the UK, but at least in the US, tax codes are so complex that almost no one understands them...
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 10:15 AM   #30
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But as you yourself noted in the article, it is not across the board 100%. It would be nice to close the loopholes for fairness and use a simple, standardized tax code. I'm not sure how it is in the UK, but at least in the US, tax codes are so complex that almost no one understands them...
I don't think anyone who doesn't work at a large accountancy firm understands UK corporate tax codes either.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 10:22 AM   #31
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I don't think anyone who doesn't work at a large accountancy firm understands UK corporate tax codes either.
I think you are being way to nice there. I am pretty sure even the the people at the large firms do not understand it all either.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 10:28 AM   #32
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Article:


Some of my Takeaways:
A) Your government, and your politicians are lying to you about how bad the problem really is.
Actually, it is the ultra-right that is lying to you. I have posted the facts over and over again, but, a few days later, the same arguments up again. I won't bother to re-post the facts again right now-- just respond to the last post.

What I still don't understand is why individuals such as yourself keep referencing these Koch-inspired arguments as if they were facts.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 11:10 AM   #33
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I don't think anyone who doesn't work at a large accountancy firm understands UK corporate tax codes either.
It's the people at the large accountancy firms who write the tax codes. That's how they know how to exploit them.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 09:11 PM   #34
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I don't think anyone who doesn't work at a large accountancy firm understands UK corporate tax codes either.
I hate the whole intentional wording thing. Tis a shame tax code can't just be "you pay this much".
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 09:18 PM   #35
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It's the people at the large accountancy firms who write the tax codes. That's how they know how to exploit them.
actually its not. but nice try.
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 06:31 AM   #36
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actually its not. but nice try.

Really? Lobbyists, at least here in the US, frequently write bills.
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 09:28 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by jnpy!$4g3cwk View Post
Actually, it is the ultra-right that is lying to you. I have posted the facts over and over again, but, a few days later, the same arguments up again. I won't bother to re-post the facts again right now-- just respond to the last post.

What I still don't understand is why individuals such as yourself keep referencing these Koch-inspired arguments as if they were facts.
Pointing out the well documented massive increases in spending on Medicare, SS, and defense are 'Koch-inspired' arguments?

With all due respect, your desire to find an 'easy solution' seems to result in you being unwilling to meet the truth head-on and actually deal with the problems that may eventually bankrupt the nation and plunge us or our children in to utter financial disaster.
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 02:02 PM   #38
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Pointing out the well documented massive increases in spending on Medicare, SS, and defense are 'Koch-inspired' arguments?
As far as I know, Charles and David Koch have not been lobbying against defense spending.

And, Frederick R. Koch has donated a large amount of his wealth in support of the arts, while we are on the subject of Kochs.

But, yes, when you constantly complain about "Medicare and SS" or "Entitlement spending" you are falling victim to the propaganda machine.
Let's look at some graphs in a minute.


Quote:
With all due respect, your desire to find an 'easy solution' seems to result in you being unwilling to meet the truth head-on and actually deal with the problems that may eventually bankrupt the nation and plunge us or our children in to utter financial disaster.
Yes, the Kochs (that is, Charles and David) want to scare you into destroying SS and medical care for the elderly (currently Medicare).

OK, let's look at a typical "scare graph". I just googled and this was the second one up, but, you can find plenty of others that look just the same. Let's take it head-on:



First thing to notice is the dotted black line. Flat indefinitely. IF we were willing to devote 100% of revenue to these social programs, they could be funded indefinitely with existing revenue. Second thing to notice: Social Security flattens out only a little above what it is now. A modest increase in the SS tax itself solves this problem forever. Third thing to notice is that while Medicare "is", a major increase in tax solves this problem forever. We could have Medicare in our current form if we were willing to pay for it. I don't recommend it-- insurance-based programs double the cost. Evidence: compare the U.S. to every other industrialized country. Medicare is a victim of its own success-- now that Medicine is able to prolong the lives of the elderly, they are living long enough for Medicare in its current form to be very costly.

So, what do you propose? I'm tired of hearing constant criticism about the cost of Medicare without any specific proposal to provide health care for the elderly poor.

Last edited by jnpy!$4g3cwk; Dec 29, 2012 at 03:36 PM. Reason: Graph trouble.
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