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Old Dec 28, 2012, 09:59 PM   #51
nickn
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Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
What's so great about the Nexus 7? It's basically just an oversized Android phone, no?
Let's see. To start, on the hardware side of things, it has a far faster quad core A9 CPU and NVIDIA GPU, and double the RAM. While many people on this forum like to completely ignore hardware stats, the fact of the matter is that they make everything run better. Take a look at the extremely taxing game Shadowgun Deadzone, for example, to see what I mean. I played the game on an iPad 2, and the graphics on the Nexus 7 were better at a far higher FPS. Second, it has a higher resolution true HD display. Put a Nexus 7 next to a mini and play a high quality movie file. Next, unlike every WiFi only Apple product, every Nexus 7 has a GPS and offline maps. I replaced my standalone GPS unit with my Nexus, and use it for turn by turn often. Fourth, while mostly subjective, in my opinion, at this point the Nexus simply has the better OS. Before Android 4, iOS had the lead, and was overall better. In the Android 2.X days, many early tablets were little more than oversized phones, but not any more. With Android 4.2, you get a true tablet optimized OS. Under Android, to list just a few things I regularly do, I am able to plug various USB devices into my Nexus such as an external HD or flash drive, or game controller, have file access and not be tied to iTunes, have user accounts to be able to share the tablet with my family, Adobe Flash, ability to install whatever apps I want, eg banned WiFiFoFum, and many other things, none of which I could do on the any iOS device. Finally, you get all of this for over a hundred cheaper, with the Nexus 7 16GB starting at just $199, instead of $329. The device is a true winner, IMO, at any price...

Last edited by nickn; Dec 28, 2012 at 10:10 PM.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 10:01 PM   #52
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Insatiable appetite for an ipad mini equals a 1-2 week wait and workers having to work through a holiday? I guess no one at apple is apprised of the iMac situation!
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 11:29 PM   #53
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This is such a slap in the face to those workers. Walmart workers got Christmas day off.

There is a "superstition" among most chinese that if you work on new years day, it is your destiny to work your entire life (you'll never be rich or retire).
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 12:13 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by TC03 View Post
.....The post-PC era is real and Apple saw it coming way beyond the horizon. Now that's vision. *applause*
Maybe they designed the post-PC era. Remember, they know what we want, before we know, what we want.

Either way, that still spells VISION!
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 01:29 AM   #55
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.....In the end, Apple replaces one top-selling product with another top-selling product. And competitors aren't even close.
Not only, they "aren't even close", but if it wasn't for all the rumors and parts leaks, those competitors would have been 'clue-less' at any of APPLE's 'marketplace altering' product launches. Let's give credit, where credit is due.
Quite an accomplishment for one single company.

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.....I thought Jobs was full of it. I think he missed the boat a number of times, but I give credit where credit is due.....
I think, it was more the fact, that he was the ultimate perfectionist; he probably agonized, and went back and forth many times before finally deciding that 9.7" was the perfect size, and it may have been initially. But perfectionists aren't always right about everything, and people's needs and wants change over time. Now it seems we love the size and weight of the Mini.

Upon Steve's return to the company in 1996, I believe he was keenly aware that APPLE wasn't going to be MICROSOFT, and had accepted that. His overriding motive was never about money or market share, but rather about creating beautiful and 'perfect' products that were easy, and a joy, to use. He also never wanted to aim the iPod, and a year later iTunes, at the PC market and stubbornly held on to the much faster FIREWIRE as the syncing interface, until relenting several years later (circa 2004-05), and giving in to pressure from other top executives, who saw a gigantic opportunity for market penetration. Since most PC's didn't have FIREWIRE, switching to USB, was a decision, without which, in hindsight, APPLE's phenomenal success probably could not have happened.
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 05:03 AM   #56
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Did Amazon and Android OEMs start with 7" because they thought it was the perfect size or because they knew the only way they could really compete with iPad was on price? I'd love to see sales figures on Amazon/Android tablets that are more than $199. There have been rumors that Amazon is cutting orders for the 8.9" Fire because its not selling as well. And they did discount it $50 in Black Friday.

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Originally Posted by macs4nw View Post
I think, it was more the fact, that he was the ultimate perfectionist; he probably agonized, and went back and forth many times before finally deciding that 9.7" was the perfect size, and it may have been initially. But perfectionists aren't always right about everything, and people's needs and wants change over time. Now it seems we love the size and weight of the Mini.
From Walter Isaacson's book (p.493):
Quote:
The process began with Jobs and Ive figuring out the right screen size. They had twenty models made—all rounded rectangles, of course—in slightly varying sizes and aspect ratios. Ive laid them out on a table in the design studio, and in the afternoon they would lift the velvet cloth hiding them and play with them. “That’s how we nailed what the screen size was,” Ive said.
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 07:53 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by wizard View Post
Missing the point! Are you completely out of touch with reality? Worker work the holiday in China for the same reason we do in the USA.
So that rich people can become even richer. That is the reason why underpaid people work on holidays.

I leave the moral implications as an exercise for the reader.

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Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
What's so great about the Nexus 7? It's basically just an oversized Android phone, no?
Well, you need to actually play with it yourself - in your own two hands. Once you do, you will realize that it is magical. Until you do, then you really just are unable to understand.

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Originally Posted by Popeye206 View Post

As for multiple tablets, I don't buy it. One is enough for most people... two maybe... but more than one seems a bit excessive and not a wise use of money. But if you know something I don't, educate me.
Tablets will become ubiquitous. You'll use your old cheap one in the can. One will be on your coffee table. You'll have an old favorite in a travel case that you grab before you go to the bus stop. Each kid will have a hand-me-down, not counting the old ones that nobody really uses anymore.

Tablets will be like pocket calculators. Like pads of paper.
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 09:05 AM   #58
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Apple is not forcing their supply chain to work thru Chinese New Year, they are simply placing orders at a very high rate and no one is prepared to deliver... Building inventory of parts for Apple instead of waiting until they order was the smart thing to do....not many did.
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 10:09 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Popeye206 View Post
?????? Smart phone market is limited? Really? Seems to me we all change our phones about every 2 years. Use to change it every year before the iPhone. That's a lot of churn.

As for multiple tablets, I don't buy it. One is enough for most people... two maybe... but more than one seems a bit excessive and not a wise use of money. But if you know something I don't, educate me.
Well I was kind of joking about the smartphone market being limited. Because I think everyone will want one and yes they will exchange their smartphones frequently.

But for tablets you are assuming today's prices and technology. I think as prices are brought down and the power of the devices increase we will use tablets more and more. I'm including e-readers in this group. I think fairly soon everyone will have an e-reader. There just won't be any reason to not once Amazon brings prices for them down to $40 or $50. And that probably is only two or three years off.

Then you will want a computer tablet, but you will want a portable one (mini or smaller) for when you leave the house and don't want to carry a bag. There is just no getting around that an iPad requires carrying a bag. Plus you will want a larger one long trips or just to have around the house. There is just no getting around that an iPad allows you to see more than a mini or a nexus 7. So you really want both. Only thing stopping you now is that it is expensive and seems wasteful. Five years from now, for many jobs, you will probably have a work tablet that you leave at work. Lots of folks use an iPad at my work now, but it is their personal iPad. Too expensive for now to have two of them, so we take iPad from home to work and back again. We don't do that with our work computer or other office supplies. I doubt we will do that carrying around forever. Every office worker I know has a computer at work and a computer at home. I suspect tablets will eventually be the same way.

So that is four tablets for the standard upper middle class first world person. And you will be refreshing them on a regular basis. I don't know anyone who has more than two smartphones in current use and the folks with two are rare and doing the work/personal split (usually blackberry/iPhone).

The market for tablets is unlimited. I suspect it is larger than for personal computers because their are form factor limitations and advantages in tablets that don't really show up in desktops or even laptops. If Apple continues to dominate this market, then the skies the limit for Apple.

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Originally Posted by iGrip View Post

Tablets will become ubiquitous. You'll use your old cheap one in the can. One will be on your coffee table. You'll have an old favorite in a travel case that you grab before you go to the bus stop. Each kid will have a hand-me-down, not counting the old ones that nobody really uses anymore.

Tablets will be like pocket calculators. Like pads of paper.
That is what I think. I'm part of the way there myself and I know things will be radically different in 10 years. I have kindle that is easier to pull out of my bag and read on a crowded subway. Also it is crucial for outdoor reading, plus it has infinite battery life for long flights. Then I have my iPad 3 for most other tablet uses. It gets the most use. However, I'd like a smaller pocketable device, yet something bigger than my iPhone 5, that I can put in a coat pocket and which doesn't require an man bag. I'm sure I'd get a lot of use out of a nexus 7 or a mini. Cost is dissuading me (which includes a cell connection). But after using Nexus 7 and Minis during the Holidays, I'm leaning toward one or the other.
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 12:22 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by ctdonath View Post
Among other good things, millions of Chinese workers have much better jobs (pay, benefits, hours, and conditions) than they've ever had opportunity to before. Wasn't that long ago millions per year died of starvation in forced marches and famine.

Ain't perfect, but sure heading in the right direction. Can't make the jump from groveling to luxurious overnight.
Thanks for the reply, it's nice to read some positivity, especially on here

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Originally Posted by wizard View Post
You don't know what you are talking about.
Ok, instead of blithely [and rudely] stating such, please educate me. As a "wizard", you must possess powers beyond human knowledge .

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Originally Posted by wizard View Post
Missing the point! Are you completely out of touch with reality? Worker work the holiday in China for the same reason we do in the USA.

I don't know if you are one of those lazy Obama voting Americans or just plain mentally deficient but you really need to clear your head.
Oh, I see. So you're Ms. Cleo now. You seem adamant that you know exactly why thousands of people in another country and culture are working for a holiday you do not celebrate as they do. You also seem to know that POTUS Obama voters are "lazy". So what companies do you own and run? How many golf courses and homes do you own?

PS As an adult, assuming you are over the age of 18, your personal insults speak more of you than of the people you claim to be above. Learn restraint and respect, please.
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 12:59 PM   #61
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I have a nexus 7, originally bought for testing web apps and sites on android. I decided to see if it would be a replacement for my 3rd gen ipad. Initially android 4.2 is really impressive, with its customization, multi user, and the form factor was nice though its build is way on the cheap. My screen has popped out of the bezel within the first hour of HOLDING it. Its microphone, camera and speaker are a far cry from that of my ipad. Becomes very evident the first time you try to skype. The lack of a rear camera made it really awkward to add pics of whiteboards, hand outs etc to evernote. Speaking of apps, it's a serious crapshoot. Most apps, including evernote, don't work as well as their ios counterparts-- including gmail and google maps.

Then the form factor and poor browser design come into play. Having developed many sites, it is scary how many jquerry libraries just don't work in chrome. So many sites that work just fine in safari can't function on google chrome for android. Then there's the little things like the amount of usable screen. When using the browser, you have to fill forms vertically, otherwise you can't see what field you're typing for, but then the content is so small to fit the width. The horizontal keyboard is too wide to thumb type, but too narrow to four finger type. Swipe typing natively built in is nice but I still type on my ipad faster than I can swipe type after three weeks of using it.

Then I noticed a weird lag in the ui if something processor intense was running. With a little research I discovered that the ui isn't written in C++!? The reason android's ui has lacked the ability to appear smooth is because it doesn't use the gpu like ios or win 8-- it relies on the cpu. To test this, i ran a monitor in the nexus 7- sure enough, swiping the home screen (just icons no widgets) cranked the cpu usage as high as 64%. This explained the lag in response and random choppiness.

The final reason that took androids' platform off my switch list is its fragmentation. You're completely dependent on your oem to upgrade your device to the latest build. Some are still selling new devices using honeycomb or ICS... WHAT!? My kids have my 3 year old 3gs running ios 6 and I can't find hardly any android devices running 4.2 --- Android has a long way to go to be viable in a long term. You can save 100 now sure, but its not as good in the overall experience. Granted had I not had an ipad prior I might not see these as deal breakers, but going from something as polished as an ipad... The little features they (android) add don't overcome a poorly written ui (4.1 just removed that cap on the processor so it could run smoother), poor build, and a severely fragmented developer platform that makes developers write for 2 generations old os.
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 09:44 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Lazlow View Post
Why is everyone missing the point here?

Give those workers a ****ing break. People can wait a week for their iPad minis.
You are the one who is missing the point and doesn't have an understanding of economics

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Originally Posted by nickn View Post
Let's see. To start, on the hardware side of things, it has a far faster quad core A9 CPU and NVIDIA GPU, and double the RAM. While many people on this forum like to completely ignore hardware stats, the fact of the matter is that they make everything run better. Take a look at the extremely taxing game Shadowgun Deadzone, for example, to see what I mean. I played the game on an iPad 2, and the graphics on the Nexus 7 were better at a far higher FPS. Second, it has a higher resolution true HD display. Put a Nexus 7 next to a mini and play a high quality movie file. Next, unlike every WiFi only Apple product, every Nexus 7 has a GPS and offline maps. I replaced my standalone GPS unit with my Nexus, and use it for turn by turn often. Fourth, while mostly subjective, in my opinion, at this point the Nexus simply has the better OS. Before Android 4, iOS had the lead, and was overall better. In the Android 2.X days, many early tablets were little more than oversized phones, but not any more. With Android 4.2, you get a true tablet optimized OS. Under Android, to list just a few things I regularly do, I am able to plug various USB devices into my Nexus such as an external HD or flash drive, or game controller, have file access and not be tied to iTunes, have user accounts to be able to share the tablet with my family, Adobe Flash, ability to install whatever apps I want, eg banned WiFiFoFum, and many other things, none of which I could do on the any iOS device. Finally, you get all of this for over a hundred cheaper, with the Nexus 7 16GB starting at just $199, instead of $329. The device is a true winner, IMO, at any price...
Lost me when you started talking about an Android device. Nobody cares
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 10:15 PM   #63
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You are the one who is missing the point and doesn't have an understanding of economics

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Lost me when you started talking about an Android device. Nobody cares
I'm just quoting you right now to show how pathetic and empty you sound. "Economics" are more important than workers' rights? Laws of supply and demand do not shift or upend suddenly because the workers take a week off to see their families and enjoy the holidays (unless the work stoppage is without warning). Maybe it does up in Wall Street, but they never really deal with actual products, do they?
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 11:47 PM   #64
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I'll think twice about how and where it is made; this is for Apple and any electronics company that works with Foxconn. It starts with all of us, our dollars do make a difference.
Then you would likely be buying anything as Foxconn has some 80 clients which cover the biggest companies. Dell, Microsoft etc included

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Originally Posted by srxtr View Post
I used to own an iPad 2. It rotted in my shelves. Broke down and sold the damn thing, and got an iPad mini. Been using it nearly as much as my iPhone 5! I just wish I had a pocket big enough to fit the thing. Maybe it's time I get me a man's bag...
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 12:29 AM   #65
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I think the company should shut down during holidays if they can. Those impatient Chinese can wait one day to get their iPads.
The Chinese aren't the issue. It's the rest of the world who doesn't consider New Years worthy of a weeks vacation.

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Uh...

Chinese New Year is in February. Lets wait until then before we "confirm" this story from a source with no history of accuracy...
Is likely more or less true. Same as every year on all the lines for the 70-80 clients Foxconn has. Same volunteers only, same extra pay etc.

Remember many of these workers are there to make money. This is one of those times they wait for so they can make even more
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 12:47 AM   #66
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Image


Brightwire summarizes a report [Google translation] from Taiwanese news site United Daily News claiming that Apple's supply chain partners will continue working through the traditional Chinese New Year holiday in order to keep up with demand for the popular iPad mini and iPhone 5. The holiday falls in mid-February in 2013, with many workers traditionally returning to their homes for two weeks or more in celebration.

The report comes as Apple continues to experience tight supplies of the iPad mini in particular, with the company's online stores around the world generally citing 1-2 week shipping estimates for new orders.

Demand for the iPad mini is also very strong in China, where the device launched on December 7, as highlighted in a new report from Topeka Capital Markets analyst Brian White. White cites "insatiable appetite" for the iPad mini in China and Hong Kong leading to stock shortages, with checks indicating that the iPad mini is more popular than the fourth-generation iPad.The report suggests that Apple is beginning to achieve some balance on the iPhone 5 in China, with walk-in purchases now starting to become more widely available two weeks after the device's debut. Evidence of the Apple catching up with iPhone 5 demand in the first waves of launch countries appeared earlier this month with the company's online stores shifting to immediate "in stock" availability of all models.

Article Link: Apple's Supply Chain to Work Through Chinese New Year Holiday Amid 'Insatiable Appetite' for iPad Mini in China


And all this at the expense of Imac orders, which continue to be pushed back. The hangover from lack of production capacity with the IP5, coupled with the huge demand for the Ipad Mini, is obviously causing huge issues in the production process...I really can't see how making the Chinese forego the traditional holiday is going to help with worker relations either.
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 02:44 AM   #67
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And all this at the expense of Imac orders, which continue to be pushed back. The hangover from lack of production capacity with the IP5, coupled with the huge demand for the Ipad Mini, is obviously causing huge issues in the production process...I really can't see how making the Chinese forego the traditional holiday is going to help with worker relations either.
There is no relationship between iPhone 5, iPad mini, and iMac production. Different set of suppliers. Different assembly facilities.
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 03:10 AM   #68
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FWIW, I was in a non apple apple shop last week and got so see an ipad and mini for the first time. I could not see the difference between the retina and the mini displays until he loaded up some text and even then it was no big deal.

However the size of the full ipad did not seem that much bigger than the mini but the weight difference was ridiculous. If I were to buy one of these as a first time non retina spoilt buyer, there is no way I would buy an iPad just on how heavy it is compared to the mini.

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... I thought Jobs was full of it. I think he missed the boat a number of times...
Well he certainly missed the boat regarding trying new age zen cancer cures. Had he not done that he might very well be in the boat recently impounded.
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 04:53 PM   #69
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FWIW, I was in a non apple apple shop last week and got so see an ipad and mini for the first time. I could not see the difference between the retina and the mini displays until he loaded up some text and even then it was no big deal.

However the size of the full ipad did not seem that much bigger than the mini but the weight difference was ridiculous. If I were to buy one of these as a first time non retina spoilt buyer, there is no way I would buy an iPad just on how heavy it is compared to the mini.

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Well he certainly missed the boat regarding trying new age zen cancer cures. Had he not done that he might very well be in the boat recently impounded.
Well you're right, it was a crazy way of thinking. Yet that type of thinking in a different area made him what he was... a leader unlike any other CEO running any other company. It brought him greatness and it probably killed him sooner than otherwise. I admired him and at the same time saw the pitfalls of his thinking. He was a flawed human being just like all of us are.
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 06:52 PM   #70
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Was thinking about buying my son a mini but he got an Xbox 360/Kinnect system instead.

So now I will turn my attention towards replacing my gf's first generation iPad with a mini. I think she'd love it.
Why don't you just buy yourself one? it's obviously you who wants one.
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 10:21 PM   #71
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Why don't you just buy yourself one? it's obviously you who wants one.
Yes...i'm guilty. But I've wondering if I should get the 4th Gen Retina instead because i'm getting more into music apps and with Audiobus doing what Apple should have had ready by iOS 6 (inter-app music sync) I realize it's going to take a lot of horsepower. I may need to go A6X.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 03:01 AM   #72
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Working through the Chinese New Year is a big deal, it's one of the most important holidays in their culture. Imagine if this occurred in the U.S., and thousands of minimum wage workers were forced to work through Christmas and the New Year? Oh, wait, that's already been happening, if they're lucky to find employment.

What is happening to this world? The next time I need another device, I'll think twice about how and where it is made; this is for Apple and any electronics company that works with Foxconn. It starts with all of us, our dollars do make a difference.
Couldn't agree more!
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 04:05 AM   #73
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Well you're right, it was a crazy way of thinking. Yet that type of thinking in a different area made him what he was... a leader unlike any other CEO running any other company. It brought him greatness and it probably killed him sooner than otherwise. I admired him and at the same time saw the pitfalls of his thinking. He was a flawed human being just like all of us are.
Not quite. I've been a vegetarian for nearly 40 years and I also admired Jobs and his attitude to detail and his love of good design and so on and so forth. Yet while I would consider myself an esotericist, I am also a pragmatist.

I will have have Job's 'here's to the crazy ones...' quote on my new website which is just beginning and in fact will change the world, yet none of this would preclude me from taking a scientific and pragmatic view of the human body. I really for the life of me cannot fathom where Jobs' head could have been at. And as you know when it was too late he suddenly did become pragmatic about it.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 07:51 AM   #74
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Leslie T. Chang: The voices of China's workers

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Originally Posted by bedifferent View Post
Working through the Chinese New Year is a big deal, it's one of the most important holidays in their culture. Imagine if this occurred in the U.S., and thousands of minimum wage workers were forced to work through Christmas and the New Year? Oh, wait, that's already been happening, if they're lucky to find employment.

What is happening to this world? The next time I need another device, I'll think twice about how and where it is made; this is for Apple and any electronics company that works with Foxconn. It starts with all of us, our dollars do make a difference.
Before you jump to conclusions perhaps you should educate yourself rather than relying on false western memes. First off the work is voluntary. Second off the wages are good and If like last year, will be triple time pay. Thousands que up for jobs. Apple makes Foxconn submit to third party labor audits by the FLA. Foxconn provides free education to any worker who desires it. This is a huge deal, many are looking to use the good wages and free education to better themselves. They have access to computer labs and teachers. Apple does more than any other company to ensure that working conditions are adequate and improving all the time. Other manufacturers are now being forced to follow apples footsteps of improving conditions. Please educate yourself before trashing a company who is leading the electronics world in demanding good working conditions. If you want to help a chineese worker, buy Apple. There is a great TED talk that is a good start. Watch: Leslie T. Chang: The voices of China's workers
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 09:24 AM   #75
bedifferent
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NY
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoof View Post
Before you jump to conclusions perhaps you should educate yourself rather than relying on false western memes. First off the work is voluntary. Second off the wages are good and If like last year, will be triple time pay. Thousands que up for jobs. Apple makes Foxconn submit to third party labor audits by the FLA. Foxconn provides free education to any worker who desires it. This is a huge deal, many are looking to use the good wages and free education to better themselves. They have access to computer labs and teachers. Apple does more than any other company to ensure that working conditions are adequate and improving all the time. Other manufacturers are now being forced to follow apples footsteps of improving conditions. Please educate yourself before trashing a company who is leading the electronics world in demanding good working conditions. If you want to help a chineese worker, buy Apple. There is a great TED talk that is a good start. Watch: Leslie T. Chang: The voices of China's workers
I am familiar and it is complete and utter propaganda. It is a been a long standing Chinese tradition to celebrate the New Year, long before Foxconn came into being and long before any Western idea of culture. You seem to miss the point, that Foxconn is dictating culture, and as the only "decent" work (and I say such cautiously) is via Foxconn, many feel forced into working for Foxconn. The lands are polluted and overcrowded, coupling that with genetically modified or simply corporate owned farms/land, farming is no longer a productive way of life for many in China, hasn't been for a while. This means many have little choice but to work for Foxconn and/or other tech companies. I refrain from stating "forced" as it is a choice; either starve or work for a tech company at low wages. That is the reality for many in China, unless of course you have had access to higher education and can work in urban strongholds. China isn't a third world country as it once was, far from it, but for millions still, their living conditions aren't much different from other third world nations. It's a vast landscape with many varying denizens, classes, landscapes, etc.

I am educated on the matter, I actually taught in this subject, so please do not attempt to educate me, correct me, and/or insult me, it's unseemly.
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