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Old Dec 29, 2012, 05:13 PM   #151
Drunken Master
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Originally Posted by Mr.damien View Post
There is another country where you can even let your keys on your car without being stolen and that doesn't need to cut hand of people: Japan.
Exactly. It's called being civilized.

I think if someone were to grab an iPhone out of a lady's hand on the subway and run here in Taiwan, it would probably be front page news and on the TV.

Everyone on the metro here is on a iPhone, iPad or Android device at all hours. Just the thought that some brute would grab it out of your hand is untenable.
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 05:35 PM   #152
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Exactly. It's called being civilized.

I think if someone were to grab an iPhone out of a lady's hand on the subway and run here in Taiwan, it would probably be front page news and on the TV.

Everyone on the metro here is on a iPhone, iPad or Android device at all hours. Just the thought that some brute would grab it out of your hand is untenable.
Why is that so?
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 05:47 PM   #153
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Why is that so?
Why is what so?
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 06:05 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by Drunken Master View Post
Exactly. It's called being civilized.

I think if someone were to grab an iPhone out of a lady's hand on the subway and run here in Taiwan, it would probably be front page news and on the TV.

Everyone on the metro here is on a iPhone, iPad or Android device at all hours. Just the thought that some brute would grab it out of your hand is untenable.
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Originally Posted by MacDav View Post
Why is that so?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drunken Master View Post
Why is what so?
To be fair, Drunken Master had three distinct claims in the OP - so the word "that" is quite ambiguous....
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 06:30 PM   #155
xdxdaustin
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Originally Posted by cameronjpu View Post
Seriously, you shouldn't make a joke like that after god flooded the earth. Or after the asteroid that wiped out the dinosaurs. This kind of joke just doesn't fly in a post-asteroid world.



If you have no sense of humor whatsoever, you might want to get off the internet.
Theres quite a bit of difference between a sense of humor, and making remarks such as the ones I mentioned. Its the same thing as saying your going to kill someone; its not taken as a joke anymore.
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 06:46 PM   #156
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Theres quite a bit of difference between a sense of humor, and making remarks such as the ones I mentioned. Its the same thing as saying your going to kill someone; its not taken as a joke anymore.
A - it's not the same as that, that's ridiculous. B - get a sense of humor. Or at least lose the giant rod... people die in terrible, unfair ways all the time, and have since the beginning of time. Just because you're too uptight to ignore something you don't find amusing doesn't mean the rest of us have to pretend like this is the first massacre ever. Grow up.
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 07:38 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by Drunken Master View Post
Why is what so?
Well, I guess you do have a point. The "what" I'm wondering about (and I really think my question is unanswerable and even rhetorical in a sense). What is the reason people in Japan and Taiwan don't run around stealing iPhones or anything else? I realize there are many expert explanations for this. None of these expert explanations really hold water in my opinion. As one who apparently lives in Taiwan, why do you think this is.

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To be fair, Drunken Master had three distinct claims in the OP - so the word "that" is quite ambiguous....
Thanks for your expertise. I don't know what I'd do without you. I'd like to try though.
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 08:00 PM   #158
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Well, I guess you do have a point. The "what" I'm wondering about (and I really think my question is unanswerable and even rhetorical in a sense). What is the reason people in Japan and Taiwan don't run around stealing iPhones or anything else? I realize there are many expert explanations for this. None of these expert explanations really hold water in my opinion. As one who apparently lives in Taiwan, why do you think this is.[COLOR="#808080"]
I can only go off the expert opinions, but most people her don't commit petty crimes. Now there is still lots of white collar crime and gangster activity (as in most places) but most people don't think to commit theft at any level. Lots of people, for example, park their bikes in places and don't chain them up. The odds of someone taking your bike are slim to none. Same for being pick pocketed or having an iPhone stolen if you leave it on a table for a minute.

I think it has to do with education. Those kinds of things are done by low-class people with a sense of entitlement, and who feel they are owed something by society. With that comes a sense that they have been wronged somehow (whether real or just perceived). Some people make the argument that America has so much crime and violence because of the sheer number of different races, nationalities and religions clashing together in the less-than-idyllic melting pot. But crime and violence happen in plenty of homogenous countries too. There's also the glorification of gangster culture in America, which leads to impressionable young people doing things like theft and taking drugs to fit in and appear "cool". We don't have that sort of gangster worship here, where you see people wearing Scarface shirts and whatnot.

These are also small islands, where it's perceived to be harder to disappear. Look at China: their crime rates are much higher than Taiwan, Japan or Korea's, because it's easier for someone to disappear. Even though we're densely populated in some areas here, Taipei is the biggest little city I've ever been to. I'm constantly seeing or running into the same people, and if someone were to be caught for grabbing a phone on the subway, they'd be shamed on the news and would likely have to move to another city.
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 08:28 PM   #159
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I can only go off the expert opinions, but most people her don't commit petty crimes.
Just FYI - most people in the States don't commit petty crimes either.
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 08:32 PM   #160
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I grew up in Brooklyn during the 1980s and my mom gave me "mugger's money" when I was about 14. Ten to twenty dollars, some of which was spent at an arcade. To prevent someone mugging me from getting angry if I didn't have anything worth taking. My mom wasn't the only mom in the city who did that. Luckily, I was never mugged, even as an adult. Thinking about it now, it seems ridiculous that my mom had to do this which she began doing after a couple of other moms told her about it.

It's better now, but that doesn't mean you should be oblivious to your environment. Back then, people were warned not to wear expensive jewelry or carry a lot of cash with you. The bright screen of an iPhone on a dark street is like a large LED sign, "I'm expensive, steal me". I never take out my iPhone on the subway or when I'm walking on a dark, desolate street at night. Maybe my behavior is a result of the memories I have of my "mugger money years".
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 08:33 PM   #161
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Thanks for your expertise. I don't know what I'd do without you. I'd like to try though.
Don't worry, I'll be here to help you muddle through any confusing situations. I only want to help.
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 09:29 PM   #162
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Headline Change?

Come on, let's be honest here. Crime is up. It is NOT BECAUSE of iPhones and iPads, it's because of moral relativity, it's because there is an increase in PEOPLE who are willing to take things that are not theirs and they think they are entitled to it.

Bloomberg likes to blame things rather than people.
If it weren't for iPads and iPhones, we would have less crime...
If it weren't for soda's above 16 oz. people would not be fat...
If it weren't for guns, everyone would hug each other and never murder...

I happen to own all of the above... and am proud of it.
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 10:00 PM   #163
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Igotya

if Apple would get an app like Igotya that takes a picture of anyone who types in the wrong code or tries to turn it off with out the code it would help a lot. Instead they just have the weak Find My Phone app
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 10:20 PM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drunken Master View Post
I can only go off the expert opinions, but most people her don't commit petty crimes. Now there is still lots of white collar crime and gangster activity (as in most places) but most people don't think to commit theft at any level. Lots of people, for example, park their bikes in places and don't chain them up. The odds of someone taking your bike are slim to none. Same for being pick pocketed or having an iPhone stolen if you leave it on a table for a minute.

I think it has to do with education. Those kinds of things are done by low-class people with a sense of entitlement, and who feel they are owed something by society. With that comes a sense that they have been wronged somehow (whether real or just perceived). Some people make the argument that America has so much crime and violence because of the sheer number of different races, nationalities and religions clashing together in the less-than-idyllic melting pot. But crime and violence happen in plenty of homogenous countries too. There's also the glorification of gangster culture in America, which leads to impressionable young people doing things like theft and taking drugs to fit in and appear "cool". We don't have that sort of gangster worship here, where you see people wearing Scarface shirts and whatnot.

These are also small islands, where it's perceived to be harder to disappear. Look at China: their crime rates are much higher than Taiwan, Japan or Korea's, because it's easier for someone to disappear. Even though we're densely populated in some areas here, Taipei is the biggest little city I've ever been to. I'm constantly seeing or running into the same people, and if someone were to be caught for grabbing a phone on the subway, they'd be shamed on the news and would likely have to move to another city.
Hey, thanks for taking the time to express your thoughts on this. Yes, you are right ...I've heard most of those ideas before. I suppose they all contribute to this cultural difference. I tend to think all these factors come together to form a person's awareness of a "cultural reality". Most of those involved in this kind of bad behavior are younger and haven't developed a real notion of reality yet. The perception of being "wronged by society" comes into play here. It is a perception fed by certain political figures (So called spokesmen). I hold these types in the highest contempt since they promote false victimhood. (If I'm a victim then bad behavior is somehow justified). Anyway, thanks for your reply and best wishes.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AidenShaw View Post
Don't worry, I'll be here to help you muddle through any confusing situations. I only want to help.
I see...but I don't want to muddle through, I want to sail through. So you're not much help are you?
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 11:04 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by TallManNY View Post
These devices have unique identifying numbers. I still don't see why Apple, the Cell Companies, and the police can't coordinate to catch crooks stealing these devices. At least if the crooks don't ultimately fence them overseas. And seriously the guy doing a snatch and run job on your iPhone as you walk down the street texting, that guy doesn't have access to an overseas fence. Why can't Apple shut the device's access off from the Apple store? Yes, then folks can jailbreak. But that is another inconvenience and lowers the value of the stolen phone.
Well said.

When I was mugged for my iPhone in LA I wondered why they even wanted it cause it would be useless once I reported it, right??!!

Um, nope. The guy at AT&T said they activate any phone brought in.

It is in Apple's best interest to get a new customer even if they are criminals.

When will Apple do something about this?

PEOPLE ARE GETTING MUGGED AND KILLED FOR iPHONES

Apple must make stolen devices USELESS so people will stop getting hurt.
It disgusts me.
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 03:05 AM   #166
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No Attenton For Droid Or Whatever you call it!
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 03:57 AM   #167
Michael Scrip
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Originally Posted by dampfnudel View Post
I grew up in Brooklyn during the 1980s and my mom gave me "mugger's money" when I was about 14. Ten to twenty dollars, some of which was spent at an arcade. To prevent someone mugging me from getting angry if I didn't have anything worth taking. My mom wasn't the only mom in the city who did that. Luckily, I was never mugged, even as an adult. Thinking about it now, it seems ridiculous that my mom had to do this which she began doing after a couple of other moms told her about it.

It's better now, but that doesn't mean you should be oblivious to your environment. Back then, people were warned not to wear expensive jewelry or carry a lot of cash with you. The bright screen of an iPhone on a dark street is like a large LED sign, "I'm expensive, steal me". I never take out my iPhone on the subway or when I'm walking on a dark, desolate street at night. Maybe my behavior is a result of the memories I have of my "mugger money years".
Everyone should carry a "mugger's phone"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...IIIgbadY&t=13s
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 04:11 AM   #168
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Hand loss as a crime prevention methodology

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Originally Posted by Jaro65 View Post
When I worked in Saudi Arabia, I noticed how store vendors didn't mind placing small items right by the door. You won't see that here in the US, as it would be easy to walk in, grab, and run. Of course, if you were to do that in Saudi Arabia, you lose your hand. As a result, theft is not something one is generally concerned with. Perhaps if we instituted meaningful penalties for theft, we would also not need to worry about pulling out our iPads and iPhones in the public?
Citation Needed, where the Saudia Arabian crime rate is low because the penalty for theft is hand loss.

The idea that cutting off hands is in any way a net positive for society is just ridiculous. I suppose if we adopt the Saudia Arabian policy on alcohol and pornography we will again have even more crime reduction, right? While you're at it, how about a anecdote about taxes is Saudia Arabia leading to a equitable and fair society? Maybe while you're at it you could discuss how the regime in Saudia Arabia has led to more freedom?
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 04:57 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by firewood View Post
I would pay $$$ for an optional Apple service where I could show up in one of their stores, show ID and proof of purchase of my iPhone using that ID (they have ways of checking), and have them permanently brick my iPhone should it ever show up on any network again. (Turning red hot in the thief's hands while the battery melts would be even better, but various liability laws probably prevent that.)

The problem is: would anyone ever buy my used iPhone knowing I could brick it at any time? The price of used iPhones would plumet like crazy.
And what happens when you decide to sell the iPhone?
What does the new owner do to register the device to him now.
What happens if you sell it and then do decide to be evil and get the phone bricked?
There are too many issues with 'ownership' with what you have suggested.
Apple could never do what you suggest as they have no way of knowing the true owner of the device (you could have sold it).
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 06:20 AM   #170
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Passcode to lock would help.
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 06:22 AM   #171
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Citation Needed, where the Saudia Arabian crime rate is low because the penalty for theft is hand loss.

The idea that cutting off hands is in any way a net positive for society is just ridiculous. I suppose if we adopt the Saudia Arabian policy on alcohol and pornography we will again have even more crime reduction, right? While you're at it, how about a anecdote about taxes is Saudia Arabia leading to a equitable and fair society? Maybe while you're at it you could discuss how the regime in Saudia Arabia has led to more freedom?
Doesn't the U.S. still have the death penalty?

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Last edited by Drunken Master; Dec 30, 2012 at 07:08 AM.
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 06:34 AM   #172
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This is messed up in so many ways. Why would you say anything like that after 9/11 or any of the other mass tragedies? This solution, like arming teachers with guns, will never work. Why? Its fighting fire with fire, which everyone knows doesn't work. Rather than improving the world via positive means, you would be trying to change it with hate and fear.
9/11 was not a tragedy. If the twin towers would have crashed down and killed thousands of people because some engineer made a mistake in some calculation, that would have been a tragedy. Intentional mass murder is not a tragedy.
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 09:21 AM   #173
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Hmm - people need to be more careful and use digression.
Good one!
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I tend to zone out on the subway listening to music
Ok, that explains it.
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 10:50 AM   #174
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9/11 was not a tragedy. If the twin towers would have crashed down and killed thousands of people because some engineer made a mistake in some calculation, that would have been a tragedy. Intentional mass murder is not a tragedy.
tragedy |ˈtrajidē| noun
1 an event causing great suffering, destruction, and distress, such as a serious accident, crime, or natural catastrophe
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 11:09 AM   #175
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And what happens when you decide to sell the iPhone?
And brick it? Perhaps the same thing that happens when you report a car stolen after you've sold it to someone. Various false crime report laws might apply...
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