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Old Dec 31, 2012, 04:29 PM   #51
Richdmoore
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Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post
2 months from now: 18 inch optical Thunderbolt cables by Monster Cable: $100.

9 months from now: 18 inch optical Thunderbolt cables by Monoprice: $10.
I hope so, but I would be more encouraged if monoprice already had some copper thunderbolt cables for $10. (I think that these optical cables also require chips in them, to convert electrical to optical and back at the cable ends, or am I wrong?)
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 04:33 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post
2 months from now: 18 inch optical Thunderbolt cables by Monster Cable: $100.

9 months from now: 18 inch optical Thunderbolt cables by Monoprice: $10.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richdmoore View Post
I hope so, but I would be more encouraged if monoprice already had some copper thunderbolt cables for $10. (I think that these optical cables also require chips in them, to convert electrical to optical and back at the cable ends, or am I wrong?)
What would be the advantage of short optical T-Bolt cables?

Electrical isolation is important over distance (especially when the two ends are on different electrical circuits), but on a desktop they're almost certainly on the same circuit.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 04:34 PM   #53
solamar
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Originally Posted by Dwalls90 View Post
30m .. why? Lol

That's 100 feet.

Because of "noise"? #FirstWorldProblems ... mechanical HDD's are hardly annoying, and SSD is the future especially for thunderbolt.
How quickly people seem to forget.

First, they either reported this incorrectly or they've limited this release of the cable for some reason. The optical cables are, per Intel, rated at 100gb. Not 10gb.. The copper cables are limited to 10gb. Intel's whole shtick with TB was that copper was reaching it's limit in possible speeds.

Which is the other reason for these cables. Not just range, but speed.. The current TB technology is rated at 100gb with fiber, 10gb with copper+power. Per Intel and Apple, once optical cables were released, current TB tech in our systems should be able to realize the full speeds via optical cables.

We've been limited to 10gb because of the lack of a fiber version of this cable. That includes current MacBooks/iMacs/Mac Minis. So either they are running into roadblocks or taking their sweat time if they are only rating the optical cable at 10gb.

This isn't just for displays or HDD's.. this technology is a PCIe bus on TAP at 100gb.

Used for high-speed SAN, or floor to floor data connections (network), or high-speed video recording systems.. hell, think of a device/technology, and it can connect at 100gb..

This tech is ideal for heavy traffic SANs and Heavy workload workstations doing rendering..

Last edited by solamar; Dec 31, 2012 at 04:53 PM.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 04:34 PM   #54
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"For those who already own a Thunderbolt-enabled Mac, Intel notes that the existing Thunderbolt ports will be compatible with both copper and fiber optic cables, ensuring cross-compatibility once the new cables arrive."

Does that mean there are optical transceivers already in the Macs with TB ports? Didn't think they did.

Or is the copper to optical hardware inside the optical TB cables?

Either way, that would be great not to have to have new hardware for it.


THIS may let me buy a 27" iMac for my home. I keep my Mac, printer, external drives, etc in my office and run a long DVI cable to a monitor in my living room. Keeps the noise level down.

With this I could keep an iMac in my living room and run the optical TB cable to my office and be in good shape. I dred to think how much a 50' optical TB cable might be though... ::shudder::
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 04:35 PM   #55
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How is that Drobo doing?

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Originally Posted by chabig View Post
I have a Drobo 5D. They've done a great job with the fan. It's quieter than my MacBook Pro most of the time.
I've been thinking about investing in one but have concerned about performance and reliability. If you have one with Drobos new controller can you give us a quick report on how it is working for your.

My use would be backup of about 2TB of disk space.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 04:43 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Dwalls90 View Post
30m .. why? Lol

That's 100 feet.

Because of "noise"? #FirstWorldProblems ... mechanical HDD's are hardly annoying, and SSD is the future especially for thunderbolt.
Please stop. "First World Problems" is starting to become a very overused, and annoying term. Of course it's a "First World Problem." Who in the third world would have a need for Thunderbolt, anyway?

Fact is that lot of people would want their terminal (i.e., iMac) to be in their office, and have their mass storage in another location.

And BTW, not seeing SSD for mass storage devices becoming the norm anytime soon. It still goes for over $1 a GB in most places.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 04:43 PM   #57
wizard
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Please read Sumitomos press release.

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Originally Posted by solamar View Post
How quickly people seem to forget.

First, they reported this incorrectly. The optical cables are rated at 100gb. Not 10gb.. The COPPER cables are limited to 10gb. Which is the OTHER reason for these cables.. Not just range, but speed.. The current TB technology is rated at 100gb with fiber, 10gb with copper+power. We've been limited to 10gb because of the lack of a fiber version of this cable. That includes current MacBooks/iMacs/Mac Minis.
Often it isn't the cable that is limited but rather the port electronics. Whatever the issue here Sumitomo is saying 10GBs.
Quote:

This isn't just for displays or HDD's.. this technology is a PCIe bus on TAP at 100gb.

Used for high-speed SAN, or floor to floor data connections (network), or high-speed video recording systems.. hell, think of a device/technology, and it can connect at 100gb..
You won't get that on today's hardware.
Quote:
This tech is ideal for heavy traffic SANs and Heavy workload workstations doing rendering..
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 04:49 PM   #58
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The Drobo 5D is anything but noisy...

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard View Post
I've been thinking about investing in one but have concerned about performance and reliability. If you have one with Drobos new controller can you give us a quick report on how it is working for your.

My use would be backup of about 2TB of disk space.
I have one, I am extremely pleased with everything except the price. But you do get what you pay for...I just wish it was less

Check out the 5D on Amazon, I have a pretty detailed review posted there: http://www.amazon.com/review/RFOPV8ZOGQ2XJ

Last edited by smileyborg; Jan 1, 2013 at 02:26 PM. Reason: Add link to Amazon review
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 04:53 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iVoid View Post
"For those who already own a Thunderbolt-enabled Mac, Intel notes that the existing Thunderbolt ports will be compatible with both copper and fiber optic cables, ensuring cross-compatibility once the new cables arrive."

Does that mean there are optical transceivers already in the Macs with TB ports? Didn't think they did.

Or is the copper to optical hardware inside the optical TB cables?

Either way, that would be great not to have to have new hardware for it.


THIS may let me buy a 27" iMac for my home. I keep my Mac, printer, external drives, etc in my office and run a long DVI cable to a monitor in my living room. Keeps the noise level down.

With this I could keep an iMac in my living room and run the optical TB cable to my office and be in good shape. I dred to think how much a 50' optical TB cable might be though... ::shudder::
Optical transceivers in the cable. Making it none to cheap, I'm sure.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 04:57 PM   #60
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They should probably consider working on making the cables cheaper. Those things are ridiculous in price.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 05:00 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by TMay View Post
I'll bet that even you would agree that the working dataset for a large project, i.e., digital video or digital audio would be best served off an SSD drive, but for backup, your economics are correct.
The projects I work with are larger than a terabyte.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard View Post
I've been thinking about investing in one but have concerned about performance and reliability. If you have one with Drobos new controller can you give us a quick report on how it is working for your.

My use would be backup of about 2TB of disk space.
The Drobo is crap. Unreliable and proprietary. In my experience, prone to random library rebuilds and slowdowns across several different models and notoriously horrid tech support. Never again I say. Steer clear.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 05:16 PM   #62
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The MAC Pro chasis is so beautiful that I would rather put it ahead of me

Quote:
Originally Posted by bedifferent View Post
I imagine it would be best suited for server based systems. Follow my train of thought.

Imagine a new Mac Pro (or even Mac Mini server), a smaller form factor akin to the ill-fated G4 Cube. Perhaps it has 2 PCIe slots, 2-3 internal SATA III bays, 1-2 Xeon (or Core i7) processors, RAM, Thunderbolt, USB 3.0 connections (Ethernet, et al). Place the unit in a closet, and run a fiber optic Thunderbolt cable to a workstation for display(s) and HIDs. A graphics box and more devices can be attached via copper Thunderbolt cables for bus support.

You have a nice, small yet powerful system tucked away and out of sight.

...and it'll cost

$100 BILLION DOLLARS

(apologies, couldn't resist)
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 05:40 PM   #63
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Quote:
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Imagine a new Mac Pro (or even Mac Mini server), a smaller form factor akin to the ill-fated G4 Cube. Perhaps it has 2 PCIe slots, 2-3 internal SATA III bays, 1-2 Xeon (or Core i7) processors, RAM, Thunderbolt, USB 3.0 connections (Ethernet, et al). Place the unit in a closet, and run a fiber optic Thunderbolt cable to a workstation for display(s) and HIDs. A graphics box and more devices can be attached via copper Thunderbolt cables for bus support.
Note that a current 2P Xeon chipset has 24 times the PCIe bandwidth of a T-Bolt channel.

T-Bolt as you describe would make a nice Display/HID extender, but the real work would be better done inside the chassis.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 05:46 PM   #64
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Cool, I guess, but why is there nothing about the iWatch on MacRumors? Its rumors in addition to positive political news sent Apple up 4.43% today.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 05:48 PM   #65
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I suggest just buying a NAS that isn't a slow, noisy piece of junk with aggressive marketing.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 05:51 PM   #66
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Thunderbolt display with mouse and keyboard in one room, heavy-duty Mac in another room, all connections like USB memory sticks going through TB display hub to the Mac... That would be pretty awesome and expensive.

Also, just wondering, can you combine the processing power of multiple Macs efficiently using Thunderbolt and Xgrid?
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 05:55 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Dwalls90 View Post
30m .. why? Lol

That's 100 feet.
Are you suggesting that they should've measured out using feed instead of meters? You do know there is a world outside the US that uses metric, right?

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicmanalex1 View Post
I wouldn't be surprised if they added this little invention to the next Apple Announcement coming in early 2013. Chances are it will be in March or it might be June. Who knows for sure!
Thunderbolt was originally designed with optical fibers in mind, but the first version rolled out with copper.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 05:59 PM   #68
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Might want to do a thermal study on that scenario, i.e., air-conditioning that closet.
We have that at the office. Although by 'closet' we mean a rack room that is like a freezer.

We are getting ready to move to a building where they have a server room in the basement (earthquake proof) this kind of wiring would be awesome for us.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 06:23 PM   #69
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Would it be possible to somehow have a copper + fiber optic thunderbolt cable, where the copper is used for delivering power and the fiber option delivers data, without requiring two seperate cables?
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 06:26 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by TMay View Post
At some point, there will be SSD capability designed to saturate or exceed the bandwidth of the current TB channels, anticipating the TB future roadmap of 100Gb.
I thought that the 10 gb limit was because of the copper wire, and that fiber optic TB would transfer at 100 gb. So if there's no difference in transfer speed between the two right now, why would anyone opt for the more expensive fiber optic version? Because of the length?
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 06:52 PM   #71
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This sounds cool. Of course, since this is an OPTICAL cable, Apple will refuse to support it on their computers, and refer to it as a "bag of hurt".
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 06:58 PM   #72
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I thought that the 10 gb limit was because of the copper wire, and that fiber optic TB would transfer at 100 gb. So if there's no difference in transfer speed between the two right now, why would anyone opt for the more expensive fiber optic version? Because of the length?
You're spot on, the copper wire was used as it was less expensive than fiber optic and Apple didn't want to shoot themselves in the foot by further limiting adoption with more expensive cables. The fiber optic cables were how "Light Peak" was developed, and will reach those speeds limited by copper wiring. Of course fiber optic cables will allow for better transfer rates over longer distances as well.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 07:01 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by wizard View Post
I've been thinking about investing in one but have concerned about performance and reliability. If you have one with Drobos new controller can you give us a quick report on how it is working for your.
I add to what smileyborg wrote. I have had the 5D about a month. It replaced a Drobo S, which I think was already one of the quieter Drobos with it's 140mm fan (earlier Drobos had 80mm fans). I could hear the Drobo when the room was quiet and it did bother me enough that I was looking to replace the fan. If was the older model S with USB2 only and my transfer rates were about 10-15MB/s. I decided to upgrade to the 5D instead. It's silent. The refrigerator in my kitchen is louder than the Drobo. And it's fast, fast, fast. I get about 120MB/s from it with slow HDDs inside. I think it might be faster with faster disks. I also spent $100 to add the mSATA SSD to it. Overall I am very happy. As smileyborg said, it's a bit pricey but it's a nice machine.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 07:05 PM   #74
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I suggest just buying a NAS that isn't a slow, noisy piece of junk with aggressive marketing.
Exactly, if you want to put things farther away or share them accross multiple hosts, using a host-based technology and long cables is just dumb. Use 10GbE or FiberChannel and build an actual SAN.

Having to go in the next room to move the TB optical cable from Dan's workstation to Jeff's workstation sounds like a major PITA.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by bedifferent View Post
You're spot on, the copper wire was used as it was less expensive than fiber optic and Apple didn't want to shoot themselves in the foot by further limiting adoption with more expensive cables. The fiber optic cables were how "Light Peak" was developed, and will reach those speeds limited by copper wiring. Of course fiber optic cables will allow for better transfer rates over longer distances as well.
But these are not those fiber optic cables. These are simply Thunberbolt connectors mated to a optical transceiver on each side to convert the electrical signal from your Mac to an optical signal, back to an electrical signal for a TB peripheral.

That's why they're 10 Gb/s and compatible with existing Macs with Thunderbolt. Read the article people.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 07:13 PM   #75
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But these are not those fiber optic cables. These are simply Thunberbolt connectors mated to a optical transceiver on each side to convert the electrical signal from your Mac to an optical signal, back to an electrical signal for a TB peripheral.

That's why they're 10 Gb/s and compatible with existing Macs with Thunderbolt. Read the article people.
Please don't assume I didn't read the article. I was referring to the ORIGINAL concept, hence "Light Peak". It's incredibly obnoxious to continually degrade people with that same line. Completely unnecessary.

As for these cables, they are the first commercially available fiber optic cable with length being the benefit over copper, for the moment. It will [hopefully] be a [short] matter of time before the fiber optic cables utilizing the fully intended speeds will be available.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by AidenShaw View Post
Note that a current 2P Xeon chipset has 24 times the PCIe bandwidth of a T-Bolt channel.

T-Bolt as you describe would make a nice Display/HID extender, but the real work would be better done inside the chassis.
Exactly. Real work would be kept to the chassis, I was envisioning exactly what you described. For the moment, at least for my own purposes, this would be one of the benefits to TB, aka "Light Peak", that I would utilize.
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