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Old Jan 1, 2013, 11:32 AM   #1
SilentPanda
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North Korean leader seeks end to confrontation with South

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/0...90002020130101

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North Korean leader Kim Jong-un called for an end to confrontation between the two Koreas, technically still at war in the absence of a peace treaty to end their 1950-53 conflict, in a surprise New Year speech broadcast on state media.

The address by Kim, who took over power in the reclusive state after his father, Kim Jong-il, died in 2011, appeared to take the place of the policy-setting New Year editorial published in leading state newspapers.

But North Korea has offered olive branches before and Kim's speech does not necessarily signify a change in tack from a country which vilifies the United States and U.S. ally South Korea at every chance it gets.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 11:34 AM   #2
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Maybe he's just seen team America





Seriously though, this is good news
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 11:52 AM   #3
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I highly doubt even he could make that happen. The population in North Korea is brainwashed to the point of no return.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 12:42 PM   #4
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I highly doubt even he could make that happen. The population in North Korea is brainwashed to the point of no return.
I completely disagree.

The breakup of the Soviet Union proved that despite decades of totalitarianism the people still craved freedom and engagement with the rest of the world.

The people of North Korea will prove no different. Break down the barriers of hostility and distrust and you'll see that North Koreans are just like anybody else.

That is a bet I'd gladly make ... and win.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 12:44 PM   #5
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Until it happens it is just empty promises and wishful thinking.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 12:46 PM   #6
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Until it happens it is just empty promises and wishful thinking.
I completely agree... it's a tiny tiny half baby step, but I'll be surprised if we hear anything more of this.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 01:08 PM   #7
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I highly doubt even he could make that happen. The population in North Korea is brainwashed to the point of no return.
I'll believe it when I see it...and that's exactly the reason why.

While I get citizenzen's point, the people of the former Soviet Union were not brainwashed in the same way the North Koreans are.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 01:25 PM   #8
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While I get citizenzen's point, the people of the former Soviet Union were not brainwashed in the same way the North Koreans are.
Please describe the brainwashing of your typical North Korean citizen and why it is unique in its ability to render them incapable of living a (relatively) free life.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 01:27 PM   #9
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I completely disagree.

The breakup of the Soviet Union proved that despite decades of totalitarianism the people still craved freedom and engagement with the rest of the world.

The people of North Korea will prove no different. Break down the barriers of hostility and distrust and you'll see that North Koreans are just like anybody else.

That is a bet I'd gladly make ... and win.
I do think you need to look into North Korea a little more. The amount of Brainwashing is to a point that the soviet union would envy, these are the people who blame the USA when their power goes out. And worship their government leaders as if they were actual gods. You never saw that in the soviet union, ever. Not even close.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 01:30 PM   #10
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Please describe the brainwashing of your typical North Korean citizen and why it is unique in its ability to render them incapable of living a (relatively) free life.
I would say the typical South Korean citizen is a lot more brainwashed. Isn't this popular down/over there:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60MQ3AG1c8o
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 01:33 PM   #11
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Please describe the brainwashing of your typical North Korean citizen and why it is unique in its ability to render them incapable of living a (relatively) free life.
Well, they worship their figureheads as gods. They blame America for pretty much everything, they don't live a free life, they wouldn't know what to do, death camps, forced labor camps, death squads, secret police, tens of thousands killed every year, an immense amount of hate for anything on the outside.

You realize, your not even allowed inside North Korea without government minders flowing you around all the time? Just so you don't ask the " wrong " questions "

I doubt North Korea would be into integrate into another country. And it would be bad for South Korea as well.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...ackward-396563

Nice quick Article on how bad it really is, your free to do more research. All of it will confirm what I've said, and thats in that article.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 01:55 PM   #12
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Well, they worship their figureheads as gods. They blame America for pretty much everything, they don't live a free life, they wouldn't know what to do ... I doubt North Korea would be into integrate into another country. And it would be bad for South Korea as well.
People are far more resilient than you give them credit for. As a general rule people want to live free lives, to fall in love, to procreate, raise a family, achieve successful, meaningful ways to make a living and accumulate some degree of wealth and comfort.

Why you believe North Koreans don't/can't fit this mode is beyond me. It smacks of propaganda ... painting a people as inhuman, incapable of being part of the civilized world.

Your perception of human nature and North Koreans is wrong and will be proven wrong when North Korea eventually assimilates with the rest of the world.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 02:53 PM   #13
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 04:38 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Mac'nCheese View Post
I would say the typical South Korean citizen is a lot more brainwashed. Isn't this popular down/over there:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60MQ3AG1c8o
Gangnam Style is popular in loads of countries. But frankly I don't really see why you think it is more objectionable than, say, Call me Maybe, or "classics" like Love Shack.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 04:43 PM   #15
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People are far more resilient than you give them credit for. As a general rule people want to live free lives, to fall in love, to procreate, raise a family, achieve successful, meaningful ways to make a living and accumulate some degree of wealth and comfort.
I understand that, but you need to look into NK much more closely than you apparently have been.

Also, the living a free life, make money, blah blah. Many many soviet citizens had issues with that after the fall of the wall. They adapted eventually, but Soviet Brainwashing isnt half as bad as NKs.

Quote:
Why you believe North Koreans don't/can't fit this mode is beyond me. It smacks of propaganda ... painting a people as inhuman, incapable of being part of the civilized world.
Propaganda from where? I'm not saying they are unhuman, putting words in my mouth won't help your case.

You clearly don't know enough about North Korea to make a valid argument, and I think you really should look into how bad it really is in North Korea, integrating them into the 1st world would take generations.

Quote:
Your perception of human nature and North Koreans is wrong and will be proven wrong when North Korea eventually assimilates with the rest of the world.
So, my perception ( which is nothing more than an opinion ) is somehow wrong because you think it is? Bad argument.

And how do you know North Korea will assimilate with the rest of the world? Sure, there is a chance it could happen. But is it good for the first world? Nope.

I think you need to research the fact that they refer to the " Great Leader " as something similar to god himself.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 05:02 PM   #16
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So, my perception ( which is nothing more than an opinion ) is somehow wrong because you think it is? Bad argument.
And claiming an entire population is "brainwashed" is a good argument?



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Originally Posted by G51989 View Post
And how do you know North Korea will assimilate with the rest of the world? Sure, there is a chance it could happen. But is it good for the first world? Nope.
Why would it be a bad thing?
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 05:35 PM   #17
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And claiming an entire population is "brainwashed" is a good argument?

These people refer to whoever is in power as " great leader " and pray to pictures of him.

If thats not brainwashed, then what is?

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Why would it be a bad thing?
Because South Korea, and the UN would most likely end up paying to rebuild the entire thing country.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 05:47 PM   #18
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These people refer to whoever is in power as " great leader " and pray to pictures of him.
You know what over 24 million believe?

Source please.


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Because South Korea, and the UN would most likely end up paying to rebuild the entire thing country.
So in your opinion, reunification of a nation and freedom for 24 million people just isn't worth the money?

Nice values.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 05:52 PM   #19
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You know what over 24 million believe?

Source please.
http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debat...h-korean-soul/

Their website is also clearly amusing

http://www.korea-dpr.com/

If you don't worship the great leader, and government. Your jammed into concentration camps, worked to death. Or killed.

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So in your opinion, reunification of a nation and freedom for 24 million people just isn't worth the money?

Nice values.
My country is 16 trillion dollars in debt, I could care less. We should be taking care of our own 1st.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 06:13 PM   #20
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While an unexpected move I think it's mainly caused my starting a cold winter season with the high demand on life supply from outside. If those words follow positive signs in spring and summer we might see change. But it will be slow.

I was in Germany when we finally achieved the reunion and it takes decades to grow together and come over the blocks in thinking. And the human exchange and flow of goods was not too bad before.
The differences between both part of Korea is even bigger; we should expect longer time to adopt to each other.
Not giving up the hope for them ...

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death camps, forced labor camps, death squads, secret police, tens of thousands killed every year, an immense amount of hate for anything on the outside.
I guess I know what you mean but partially also describes our western behavior ... Secret prisons in outsourcing to torture-friendly countries ... No trials for long period, ... We are not as white as we would see ourself.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 06:18 PM   #21
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My country is 16 trillion dollars in debt, I could care less. We should be taking care of our own 1st.
You never know. It might be more cost-effective. One less nation to spy on or defend ourselves against. Another country to send all our American-made products to. Ok, maybe just that first one.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 06:25 PM   #22
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You never know. It might be more cost-effective. One less nation to spy on or defend ourselves against. Another country to send all our American-made products to. Ok, maybe just that first one.
I hate to sold cold, but North Korea isn't a threat. Better to keep them that way, its cheaper to station troops than to rebuild that entire place.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 06:27 PM   #23
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If you don't worship the great leader, and government. Your jammed into concentration camps, worked to death. Or killed.
So they're not brainwashed.

They're brutalized.

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I hate to sold cold, but North Korea isn't a threat. Better to keep them that way, its cheaper to station troops than to rebuild that entire place.
Abraham Lincoln could have saved a lot of lives and money if he just let the South secede and keep their slaves.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 06:41 PM   #24
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So they're not brainwashed.

They're brutalized.[COLOR="#808080"]
Being brutalized turns into brainwashing. This brainwashing has been going on snice the 1950s, from birth they are taught to worship the great leader, many of them even enjoy it.

You think Iraq was bad? NK would be 100 times worse.

Quote:
Abraham Lincoln could have saved a lot of lives and money if he just let the South secede and keep their slaves.
He didn't care about the slaves at all. His only goal was reuniting the country.

Apples to Oranges, NK and SK isn't even close to the same situation.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 06:55 PM   #25
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Being brutalized turns into brainwashing. This brainwashing has been going on snice the 1950s, from birth they are taught to worship the great leader, many of them even enjoy it.

You think Iraq was bad? NK would be 100 times worse.

He [Lincoln] didn't care about the slaves at all. His only goal was reuniting the country.

Apples to Oranges, NK and SK isn't even close to the same situation.

I have nothing further to say to you.

[turns my back ... and walks away]
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