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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:04 PM   #26
iGrip
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But We OWN That Word...

Apple has got to stop filing these ******** IP claims. It is bad for their image.

They are widely known now for their abuse of the legal system, and taxpayers are pissed that so much tax money is being wasted by Apple bringing these ******** lawsuits.

And this one ain't even the worst example of Apple's ******** filings against other companies.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:08 PM   #27
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Word is also a noun. Office is a noun. According to this verdict I can now create my own Word and Office products.

I love how it's 'okay' for everyone to steal from Apple these days.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyjibbs View Post
In reality, Apple should not have been allowed to trademark such a generic name as "App Store"
Same with Word and Office right? Right???
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:09 PM   #28
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Container Store?

I'm thinking about opening a series of large retail stores that sell plastic bins and kitchen storage items; I plan to call it "The Container Store." I shouldn't have any problems... /sarcasm
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:09 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizin View Post
Nope. The term "killer app" has been around for decades.
"Killer app", yes, but "App" alone to refer to applications, not so much.

"Killer app" lost its meaning anyway and wasn't limited to applications. You could call a video game a console's "killer app" while nobody would now refer to console games as "apps". "Killer app" doesn't follow the modern definition of an app which Apple is responsible for.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:11 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyjibbs View Post
In reality, Apple should not have been allowed to trademark such a generic name as "App Store"
I'm sure MS is being a bit on the hypercritical side, cough "Windows", but that's the nature of the trademark business.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:12 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgiguere1 View Post
Whether "App Store" should be trademarkable or not is another question, but there's no doubt that the term "App" wasn't used at all before Apple's App Store.

Microsoft didn't even call Windows software "applications", they had always called them "programs".

I find it weird that a diminutive of a generic term is necessarily considered a generic term as well, even if nobody used the term. By the same logic, you couldn't have a trademark on something like "Mus Store" or "Boo Store". Meanwhile, it's OK for Microsoft to trademark terms like "Windows", "Office", "Word".
The trademark is "Microsoft Windows" or "Microsoft Office", "Microsoft Word".

Edit: My mistake. It's actually Windows 95, Windows 98, etc. The word "Windows" is not trademarked. It is trademarked when you couple it with the OS version.
http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal...e/windows.aspx
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:12 PM   #32
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Sad truth is a judge would never be able to understand creativity or anything artistic. They are pure left brained people. The only thing they are good at is left brained stuff.

A designer, or Apple in this regard is right brained and create great things that left brained people take for granted, hence the fact there is the "Starving Artist" and "Rich Lawyer" terms.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:13 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slffl View Post
Word is also a noun. Office is a noun. According to this verdict I can now create my own Word and Office products.

I love how it's 'okay' for everyone to steal from Apple these days.

----------




Same with Word and Office right? Right???
Are you sure Microsoft has a trademark on Office (the word alone). And are you aware that Office as a software product is trademarked. I'm pretty sure you can create a product called office that has nothing to do with computers and you'd be ok. No?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dandy1117 View Post
I'm thinking about opening a series of large retail stores that sell plastic bins and kitchen storage items; I plan to call it "The Container Store." I shouldn't have any problems... /sarcasm
A little different. The Container Store is taken. Container Store isn't. If you don't see the difference, or why App Store (not Apple App Store) shouldn't be trademark, that's your issue to read up on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pgiguere1 View Post
"Killer app", yes, but "App" alone to refer to applications, not so much.

"Killer app" lost its meaning anyway and wasn't limited to applications. You could call a video game a console's "killer app" while nobody would now refer to console games as "apps". "Killer app" doesn't follow the modern definition of an app which Apple is responsible for.
Backpeddle if you like. Palm Pilots had App Stores long before Apple's.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:15 PM   #34
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Apple, how about innovating more and suing less? You know those once great products you sold - OS X, iOS, Mac Pro's, dedicated displayS - things that got work done? Yeah, focus on that and less on fighting for ridiculous IP's for redesigned "rectangles" and TM's for "App Store". I'm beginning to wonder if your new slogan should be "Sue Different".

Don't misunderstand, I've been using Apple systems for a long while, but since the iPhone launch and 10.7 I've seen less to be excited about as competition seems to be killing Apple in power systems and work. If it weren't for PCIe expansion slots, my Mac Pro would be even more dated than 2010.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:15 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgiguere1 View Post
Whether "App Store" should be trademarkable or not is another question, but there's no doubt that the term "App" wasn't used at all before Apple's App Store.
.
You seriously want to go there? This has been argued to death and is completely false. App has been used for MANY years before Apple started using it.

Edit: Quote from Dictionary.com - entry added June 2006

app [ap]

noun, Computers, Informal.
an application, typically a small, specialized program downloaded onto mobile devices: the best GPS apps for your iPhone.

Origin:
1985–90; by shortening


Word Origin & History

app

computerese shorthand for application, attested by 1992.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:17 PM   #36
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The judge and the anti-Apple zealots are a bunch of hypocrites. There are many trademarks using generic terms. The first one I input I found this.

Bookstore (removed link as it expires after a while. Search for Bookstore to find below)

Search Basic Word Mark search for 'Bookstore'

Trademark search
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Last edited by slffl; Jan 2, 2013 at 12:23 PM.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:17 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgiguere1 View Post
"Killer app", yes, but "App" alone to refer to applications, not so much.

"Killer app" lost its meaning anyway and wasn't limited to applications. You could call a video game a console's "killer app" while nobody would now refer to console games as "apps". "Killer app" doesn't follow the modern definition of an app which Apple is responsible for.
Stop digging.

I've been coming here for maybe ten years at this stage and your last comment was easily one of the stupidest things I've read on here. And that's a hell of an achievement.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:18 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macsmurf View Post
Not only that. Apple also invented the term "Store".

I wonder how the internet would look if people did just two seconds of research before posting. Of course these people probably refuse to use Google for religious reasons.
Okay, I did some research like you suggested.

Wikipedia:
In recent years, the term "app" has been used to exclusively refer to applications for mobile devices such as smartphones and tablets, referring to their smaller scope in relation to applications used by PCs.

There may be some anecdotal use of the term "app" before the iPhone (none of which I can easily find using Google, point me in the right direction if you can), but never was it a standard term used by any major tech company.

People started to refer to computer/mobile software as "apps" after Apple's App store, not before.

The only exception I can find is the term "Killer app", but like I said earlier, it has a different meaning. It's also the diminutive of "application", but you wouldn't use the term in the same context. For example, you could say that "X video game" is a console's "killer app". However, would you refer to console games as "apps"? I don't think anybody would, because it doesn't fit with the modern definition of "app" which Apple is responsible for.

Halo was the Xbox's killer app.
You wouldn't say "let's go to Gamestop preorder this app called Halo".
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:19 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgiguere1 View Post
Whether "App Store" should be trademarkable or not is another question, but there's no doubt that the term "App" wasn't used at all before Apple's App Store.

Microsoft didn't even call Windows software "applications", they had always called them "programs".

I find it weird that a diminutive of a generic term is necessarily considered a generic term as well, even if nobody used the term. By the same logic, you couldn't have a trademark on something like "Mus Store" or "Boo Store". Meanwhile, it's OK for Microsoft to trademark terms like "Windows", "Office", "Word".
Sorry but no way in hell can Apple lay claim to the term 'App'. Just because Windows called them 'Applications' (or in most cases 'Programs') that doesnt automatically mean 'App' was created by Apple.

The term has been in use, at very least since the late 1980's. As I recall Atari used to use it, and it was used in mobiles and pda's during the 90s.

Simply shortening a word and being the only people to shove another word after it does not give someone the right to claim that they invented said word.

...

So. Whist the term App became much more mainstream after the iTunes Appstore was released, it was NOT the first time it was used. Not by a long shot!
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:19 PM   #40
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It's important to understand the limits of US trademark law in this context. When you trademark a "trade name," you have exclusive right to use it for certain classes of products.

For example, while Microsoft's lawyers may disagree, you could probably open a window cleaning service called "Microsoft's Windows." Although, there would probably need to be some evidence that you were not trying to cause consumer confusion - say, if your last name was "Microsoft."

The moral of the story is that if Apple were to trademark, say, "Apple," it would not be able to prevent a person from opening an apple stand called "the Apple Store."
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:19 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgiguere1 View Post

Microsoft didn't even call Windows software "applications", they had always called them "programs".
Why is the exe file type application then?
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:22 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slffl View Post
The judge and the anti-Apple zealots are a bunch of hypocrites. There are many trademarks using generic terms. The first one I input I found this.

Bookstore

Search for yourself

Trademark search
So? If those trademarks were tested they would prabably be claimed invalid too, just like App Store was now.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:22 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by TMay View Post
I'm sure MS is being a bit on the hypercritical side, cough "Windows", but that's the nature of the trademark business.
If I was a curtain designer or home windows manufacturer, I doubt Microsoft would come after me for IP/TM infringement should I use "windows" in my company's name. The context of the matter should be taken into account. In this instance, "Amazon Appstore" makes a clear distinction you're on Amazon, not Apple. If the store itself isn't convincing enough, I don't know what would qualify.

Apple's trying to strong arm market domination by trademarking and patenting very basic terms (ex "appstore") in order for increased public recognition and sales. If "appstore" can only be used by Apple, what are the alternatives? "Program Store"? "A coded thing that does stuff on your device store"? It's too generic and the courts know it.

First they try to patent a "new" rectangle design, now it's the names of stores. Enough already. If iOS 6 and 10.7/8 are any indication of Apple's quality, I say refocus your money and efforts into making Apple a company with products that "just work" instead of "just suing".

Hope everyone had a great New Year and all the best for 2013! (let's hope for a new Mac Pro and displays!)

Last edited by bedifferent; Jan 2, 2013 at 12:37 PM.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:25 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMay View Post
I'm sure MS is being a bit on the hypercritical side, cough "Windows", but that's the nature of the trademark business.
Heres the way you have to look at it though.

Apple tried to trademark a term used throughout the computer industry.

Microsoft trademarked a word that (at the time) hadnt really been used much at all. Sure, PARC and the Lisa had a 'Window' based GUI, but even then the term was really not considered to be at all related to computing. Likely because of the very low usage market at the time.

Obviously if they tried it today, they wouldn't have succeeded. The same can be said for the term 'App'. If Apple tried to trademark it back in the early 80s, then it'd be theirs, no questions asked. But today its a lot more widely used.

To put it another way. Nobody would be granted a trademark these days for something like "Operating System" or "Kernel" or "System" as they are highly generic terms in the computer industry.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:25 PM   #45
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While I personally agree with the fact that Apple shouldn't be able to trademark AppStore (The judge was sensible for once).

I however agree somewhat with the other side of the arguement around the word 'app'. It has really been more commonly used in the era of smart phones and tablets. Most people did call 'applications', 'programs' in the World of Windows, that being said it is a word where its origins go very far back.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:26 PM   #46
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So? If those trademarks were tested they would prabably be claimed invalid too, just like App Store was now.
So you're saying that all Trademarks are invalid? Probably just like all of Apples patents are invalid if Samsung or Google wants to use them right?
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:29 PM   #47
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Absolutely right

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyjibbs View Post
In reality, Apple should not have been allowed to trademark such a generic name as "App Store"
It's like trademarking "Grocery Store" or "Auto Parts Store".
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:29 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by pgiguere1 View Post
There may be some anecdotal use of the term "app" before the iPhone (none of which I can easily find using Google, point me in the right direction if you can), but never was it a standard term used by any major tech company.

People started to refer to computer/mobile software as "apps" after Apple's App store, not before.
Try googling "Palm Treo Apps" and see that there are several hits that are dated "2006" that use "Applications" or "Apps" not to mention all the other ones that while not timestamped, clearly were made pre-iPhone that use the term Apps.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:29 PM   #49
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Hey guys, I'm opening my new restaurant soon. I'm naming it 'Olive Garden'

Hope you can all come by and check it out.

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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:31 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
You are incorrect. There were (at least) app stores for palm pilots.
Weren't they the ones who ripped off all of Apple's innovations in the Newton?
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