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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:32 PM   #51
samcraig
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Originally Posted by pgiguere1 View Post
Okay, I did some research like you suggested.



There may be some anecdotal use of the term "app" before the iPhone (none of which I can easily find using Google, point me in the right direction if you can), but never was it a standard term used by any major tech company.
Here's just one quick example:

http://the-gadgeteer.com/1998/04/19/palm_iii_review/

This mode lets you show more apps on one screen using little icons. Only the built in apps have the correct mini icons. All your other apps use a generic little diamond like icon. You can also create categories for the applications. A pulldown menu lets you switch between categories. The memory app is now hidden in the launcher menu under Info.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:33 PM   #52
Geckotek
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Originally Posted by pgiguere1 View Post
Okay, I did some research like you suggested.

Wikipedia:
In recent years, the term "app" has been used to exclusively refer to applications for mobile devices such as smartphones and tablets, referring to their smaller scope in relation to applications used by PCs.
Seriously? Wikipedia? You're honestly going to quote Wikipedia and claim that as your research?

Try Googling "App" before 2007. You'll see tons of usage that is not just "annecdotal".
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:34 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgiguere1 View Post
Okay, I did some research like you suggested.

Wikipedia:
In recent years, the term "app" has been used to exclusively refer to applications for mobile devices such as smartphones and tablets, referring to their smaller scope in relation to applications used by PCs.

There may be some anecdotal use of the term "app" before the iPhone (none of which I can easily find using Google, point me in the right direction if you can), but never was it a standard term used by any major tech company.
Google Apps: August 2006
iPhone released (without App Store): june 2007

I guess that means Apple stole the term from Google, right?
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:34 PM   #54
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+1 for common sense.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:35 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by slffl View Post
Hey guys, I'm opening my new restaurant soon. I'm naming it 'Olive Garden'

Hope you can all come by and check it out.

You're missing the point. You could open up a store that sold only olives and call it Olive Garden. You couldn't open up a restaurant that was called Olive Garden. You might still get challenged - but you'd at least have a case.

Do you understand the difference between App Store and Apple App Store ?
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:35 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgiguere1 View Post
Okay, I did some research like you suggested.

Wikipedia:
In recent years, the term "app" has been used to exclusively refer to applications for mobile devices such as smartphones and tablets, referring to their smaller scope in relation to applications used by PCs.

There may be some anecdotal use of the term "app" before the iPhone (none of which I can easily find using Google, point me in the right direction if you can), but never was it a standard term used by any major tech company.

People started to refer to computer/mobile software as "apps" after Apple's App store, not before.

The only exception I can find is the term "Killer app", but like I said earlier, it has a different meaning. It's also the diminutive of "application", but you wouldn't use the term in the same context. For example, you could say that "X video game" is a console's "killer app". However, would you refer to console games as "apps"? I don't think anybody would, because it doesn't fit with the modern definition of "app" which Apple is responsible for.
I'll just take it your ~16 years of age give or take 10 years. The term has been used since the 80's as other have told you. But please break down the sentence structure of "internet explorer is a killer app." and keep your above argument.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:37 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by stuaz View Post
While I personally agree with the fact that Apple shouldn't be able to trademark AppStore (The judge was sensible for once).

I however agree somewhat with the other side of the arguement around the word 'app'. It has really been more commonly used in the era of smart phones and tablets. Most people did call 'applications', 'programs' in the World of Windows, that being said it is a word where its origins go very far back.
Perhaps, but smartphones, tablets, and PDAs all existed long before the iPhone and the App Store didn't even exist in it's first year of existence. Handmark had an App Store long before Apple.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:38 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by pgiguere1 View Post
Whether "App Store" should be trademarkable or not is another question, but there's no doubt that the term "App" wasn't used at all before Apple's App Store.

Microsoft didn't even call Windows software "applications", they had always called them "programs".
Or "Executable". I still remember in the years around 2000 using the word "Application" around young techies and having them look at be in honest confusion. I would have to correct my language and say "Executable" or "Software Program".

Even the word "Application" was an Apple OS word for software programs, not a Windows one. Even if "App" were short for "Application" in all meanings (which it isn't) it would still be an Apple ecosystem word in the software sense.

But, Apple waited way too long to take this to court, and at this point should have lost it, for the same reason aspirin and zipper should no longer be trademarked, and aren't. Too generic at this point.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:38 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by unlinked View Post
Why is the exe file type application then?
On Windows, an .exe rarely contains the whole software, it usually launches the application but also uses loads of libraries and data contained in other files.

You often have to use a Setup Wizard (Windows Installer uses the term Program) to install the software in Program Files, then it will add an entry in the Programs and Features list (previously Add or Remove Programs).

"Application" was also not originally the .exe filetype in Windows. It used to say "Executable". One could argue that Windows added that only to follow Mac OS, but let's not jump in another debate
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:39 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Geckotek View Post
Perhaps, but smartphones, tablets, and PDAs all existed long before the iPhone and the App Store didn't even exist in it's first year of existence. Handmark had an App Store long before Apple.
Link to them calling their store an "App Store" ?
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:40 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Geckotek View Post
Perhaps, but smartphones, tablets, and PDAs all existed long before the iPhone and the App Store didn't even exist in it's first year of existence. Handmark had an App Store long before Apple.
That's just reminded me.

Cydia and Installer came out before the Apple iTunes App Store. As I recall, they called them Apps - and it was on the iPhone.

So technically, Apple wasnt even the first one to use the term App on an iOS device. Technically the Cydia/Installer devs were. Sure, the extension of files was '.app' but prior to these two 'stores' being released (before Apples) the term hadn't been publicly used to describe the iPhone's applications.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:41 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bedifferent View Post
I'm beginning to wonder if your new slogan should be "Sue Different".
Naw. They aren't suing different from their peers. Look at the crap that Monsanto pulls in the courts to "protect its IP". These big corporations like Apple use the legal system as a taxpayer-funded lottery.

It sucks for us though, because we have to pay the bills for Apple's profit-seeking use of the courts, and we have delays in other court cases when the docket is filled with this corporate crap shooting.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:43 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by iGrip View Post
Apple has got to stop filing these ******** IP claims. ....
It's a Trademark claim

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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:45 PM   #64
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I agree with the ruling and the fact that if Apple wanted to trademark this they should have done so with the Mac.

While not the same, I'm reminded of this:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro...._MikeRoweSoft
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:47 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slffl View Post
The judge and the anti-Apple zealots are a bunch of hypocrites. There are many trademarks using generic terms. The first one I input I found this.

Bookstore (removed link as it expires after a while. Search for Bookstore to find below)

Search Basic Word Mark search for 'Bookstore'

Trademark search

I found no reference to anybody owning the mark "Bookstore". i don't think that you are correct. I don't see how a merely descriptive term like "Bookstore" could be trademarked. If it were something like "Joe's All American, Rootin'-Tootin Bookstore", then sure.

But "Bookstore"? Let's see what you found.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:49 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Earendil View Post
Link to them calling their store an "App Store" ?
Looking for it...used to have a link showing it but can't seem to find it. However, I've found "Handango Mobile App Store" so the "Mobile" part is an addition I don't recall seeing.

Interestingly enough, here's a mention of "Global Source" starting an "App Store".

http://www.1src.com/forums/archive/i...p/t-12876.html
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:50 PM   #67
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How about they focus on bringing out some really new and innovative products rather than suing everybody about silly stuff like this.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:51 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by johnnyjibbs View Post
In reality, Apple should not have been allowed to trademark such a generic name as "App Store"
Who ever called a store where you can download software "App Store" before Apple did? The word "App" was common, but the combination "App Store" was not. Nobody ever used that combination. The generic name that was actually used was "Software store". And there is a company selling or renting containers who has a trademark on "Container Store", so there is precedent.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rmwebs View Post
That's just reminded me.

Cydia and Installer came out before the Apple iTunes App Store. As I recall, they called them Apps - and it was on the iPhone.
Where is Apple claiming they have the trademark for the word "Apps" or "App"?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Geckotek View Post
You seriously want to go there? This has been argued to death and is completely false. App has been used for MANY years before Apple started using it.
Again, where does Apple claim the trademark for the word "App"?
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:52 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bedifferent View Post
If I was a curtain designer or home windows manufacturer, I doubt Microsoft would come after me for IP/TM infringement should I use "windows" in my company's name. The context of the matter should be taken into account.
You are correct.

However, if you owned a Cafe that had the word "Apple" in it, you would likely get your ass dragged through the courts by a big nasty corporation.

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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:52 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Earendil View Post
...

But, Apple waited way too long to take this to court.... Too generic at this point...
yep. that was one of the deciding factor/issues.

It doesn't matter if Apple was the first to use App or not. The point was "App" became too generic to by the time the App store established itself as an Apple service/product.

If Apple would have used the App Store name (even though they weren't the first) and poured lots of money to identify with it for years, then suddenly someone else used it, there would have been strong case.

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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:52 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
Here's just one quick example:

http://the-gadgeteer.com/1998/04/19/palm_iii_review/

This mode lets you show more apps on one screen using little icons. Only the built in apps have the correct mini icons. All your other apps use a generic little diamond like icon. You can also create categories for the applications. A pulldown menu lets you switch between categories. The memory app is now hidden in the launcher menu under Info.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geckotek View Post
Seriously? Wikipedia? You're honestly going to quote Wikipedia and claim that as your research?

Try Googling "App" before 2007. You'll see tons of usage that is not just "annecdotal".
"App" being used in jargon is different from commercial use.
There is a difference between a reviewer calling software an "app" and Palm themselves selling them as "Apps".

I've seen some people here claim that Palm did in fact call them apps. Does somebody have a link?
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:55 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Arcady View Post
Bill Gates called Internet Explorer a "killer app" during the Microsoft trial in the 90's. The use of the word "app" to refer to software programs has been around since at least the 80's. I can remember announcements and flyers for "new apps" at MacWorld Expo going back to the late 80's. It was probably used before that time.
And Steve Jobs used the word "app" in the same meaning in his keynotes way before the first iPhone was released.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:57 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by pgiguere1 View Post
"App" being used in jargon is different from commercial use.
There is a difference between a reviewer calling software an "app" and Palm themselves selling them as "Apps".

I've seen some people here claim that Palm did in fact call them apps. Does somebody have a link?
How is it different? The point is that Apple didn't coin the term and it was commonly used.

Many people have already given you quotes showing Palm apps being called just that.

The last time this discussion was brought up, Handmark still called their store the "Handmark App Store". It seems the lawsuit scared them away and they have removed all references of "App Store" and changed it. However, this page has a link still referring to it's original name.

http://www.dhanson.org/
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:58 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by macsmurf View Post
not only that. Apple also invented the term "store".

I wonder how the internet would look if people did just two seconds of research before posting. Of course these people probably refuse to use google for religious reasons.
omgherd google steals muh infermashun!
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 01:00 PM   #75
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Google - trademarked
Amazon - trademarked
1-Click - trademarked AND patented (so no you can't let buyers buy things on your website with a single click unless you pay royalties to Amazon)
Larry - trademarked

Clearly most of you don't understand trademarks.
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