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Old Jan 3, 2013, 02:09 AM   #26
irDigital0l
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Anyone else think that when the iPad Mini with Retina comes out it'll replace the iPad 2's spot?

Starts for $399 for 16GB.

maybe they'll drop the price of the non retina to $299 instead of $329.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 02:08 PM   #27
Investor27
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But that's just it. The screen on the mini is NOT pixelated at all. My eyes are old, but they are not that old. Everytime I'm at the Apple store, I would play with the rIpad for at least an hour or so before looking at my mini again, and I still can't tell the difference when surfing the net, watching Youtube videos or reading news articles. My wife can't either, so the mini is fine for us with its long battery life and light weight.

Don't get me wrong. If Apple can release an improved (Retina) display on the mini, and somehow manages to keep the battery life and weight, I'll buy me another one even though it has only been about 4 months by March.

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Originally Posted by JS82712 View Post
You are missing the point. The iPad mini has a lower ppi than its cheaper competitor, the nexus 7, and that is a problem.

The reason that people are asking for a 2048x1536 resolution is because apple really has no other choice but to make it that way, or else every existing ipad app would need to be reworked.

For people like me that have used the retina iPad, I have been reading lengthy scientific journals..etc, it just feels a lot more comfortable than reading on a pixelated display. I was one of the first people to check out the iPad mini and I was impressed by its form factor, but the pixelated screen simply stopped me from buying it.

As a gaming and casual portable device it's nice, but for extensive reading, i'd still choose the retina ipad.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 03:49 PM   #28
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But that's just it. The screen on the mini is NOT pixelated at all. My eyes are old, but they are not that old. Everytime I'm at the Apple store, I would play with the rIpad for at least an hour or so before looking at my mini again, and I still can't tell the difference when surfing the net, watching Youtube videos or reading news articles. My wife can't either, so the mini is fine for us with its long battery life and light weight.

Don't get me wrong. If Apple can release an improved (Retina) display on the mini, and somehow manages to keep the battery life and weight, I'll buy me another one even though it has only been about 4 months by March.
You can't tell the difference? Really? One thing to say the difference is minimal or the difference is insignificant to you. But to claim that you see no difference and no pixelation ... well, some may question your eyesight.

I'll upgrade to the 2 if apps I use or features in iOS 7 begin requiring an A6 at least to run smoothly. Otherwise, what's the point in upgrading, especially if there's no retina. The current mini is perfectly fine for me.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 07:31 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by JS82712 View Post
You are missing the point. The iPad mini has a lower ppi than its cheaper competitor, the nexus 7, and that is a problem.
Sales figures would indicate its far less of a problem than you imagine.

Retina is better, yes... But not having Retina hasn't stopped it outselling iPad 4 2-1 and both the mini and iPad 4 still sold far more than the nexus 7 which granted was still hugely successful.

----------

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Originally Posted by irDigital0l View Post
Anyone else think that when the iPad Mini with Retina comes out it'll replace the iPad 2's spot?

Starts for $399 for 16GB.

maybe they'll drop the price of the non retina to $299 instead of $329.
Yes. This is what I predict too. $399 for a retina mini $499 for retina iPad both with same CPU/GPU & memory specs (a retina display will require same chipset cpu/gpu thats in the bigger ipad to power that resolution).

However i also agree they may decide to keep a mini without Retina and drop the price to the $299 too and just upgrade the A5 to an A6 and offer a basic 16gb only in the lower model.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 07:48 PM   #30
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I won't. I'll get an iPad 5 especially if it gets redesigned.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 07:51 PM   #31
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I have no need to update even if there is no retina. I like my ipad mini right now.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 10:50 PM   #32
Investor27
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Wait! So are you saying that you can't surf the internet on the mini because it's pixelated? Saying that the Ipad mini is "pixelated" is just plain disingenuous.

And unless I'm missing something else. Aren't we in agreement that we both love our mini?

If nothing else, sales numbers alone would prove that we are not the only ones...by far.

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Originally Posted by thelookingglass View Post
You can't tell the difference? Really? One thing to say the difference is minimal or the difference is insignificant to you. But to claim that you see no difference and no pixelation ... well, some may question your eyesight.

I'll upgrade to the 2 if apps I use or features in iOS 7 begin requiring an A6 at least to run smoothly. Otherwise, what's the point in upgrading, especially if there's no retina. The current mini is perfectly fine for me.
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 01:27 AM   #33
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To keep it "Mini" and give it a better resolution we've to wait IGZO displays. So it's all related, there is no reason for Mini 2 with an A6 but still 1024x768 with only an 8 mega pixel camera or NFC upgraded, nobody will buy it waiting for Mini 3rd gen...
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 03:29 AM   #34
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Next mini will be retina - apple knows its current user base is not the brightest.. but not going retina wont be overlooked by the masses next round.
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 05:39 AM   #35
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Retina is surely nailed on for the next mini. Otherwise, current owners will have no reason to upgrade and that res pushing into late 2014 is going to look embarrassing in the eyes of newcomers/competition. It got away with it this time as the form factor, Apple branded, is new and the design is new.

For now, I'm okay with the mini, it's only Safari (ironically) where lack of retina really bugs me but a better mini can't come soon enough. I think talk of a q1 refresh is complete BS, but I'd be first in line if they did.
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 10:02 AM   #36
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I take that back then. I forgot whether it's the display size or resolution that matters.
You shouldn't have done as I think you're a lot more right than wrong. Just compare the iPad 2 and the iPad mini. These two have the same processor, same display resolution, same almost everything except for the size of the display and yet the mini gets the same battery life despite having a battery that is just 65% of the capacity of the iPad 2. Physically smaller displays do require less power than larger displays, probably because less backlighting is needed to cover the smaller surface area.

We can use the same logic to get a guesstimate of the weight of a Retina iPad mini that uses the same technology as the current Retina iPad. The Retina iPad has a 42.5 Wh battery in it, 65% of that is 28 Wh. Assuming that all of the extra weight of the Retina iPad over the iPad 2 is battery gives us a figure of 3 grams per Wh. Using that figure means that the iPad mini would need 34 grams more battery giving a total of 342 grams or 0.75 lbs for a WiFi-only device.

Hmmm ... I'm not sure now good this guesstimate is as the weight is still significantly less than a Kindle Fire HD and about the same as a Nexus 7. According to Wikipedia Lithium Polymer batteries range from 130-200 Wh/kg (i.e. 7.7 g/Wh to 5 g/Wh) iFixit weighted the iPad 1's battery at 148g which gives us 6 g/Wh, right in the middle of Wikipedia's range. If use this figure it doubles the weight gain of an iPad mini and gives us 376 grams or 0.83 lbs. That's still pretty good and puts the estimated retina iPad mini right in between the Nexus 7 and the Kindle Fire HD.

Edit: Just thought I'd empathise that this estimate is with Apple's current technology, IGZO displays could shave a good chunk off the energy requirements and thus the weight.
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 10:11 AM   #37
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^this. retina version won't be coming till the 3rd gen, IMO. i'll upgrade then.
That's just buyers remorse talking

The number 1 complaint for the mini was no retina, not lack or speed or NFC or camera, but no retina

It would be shocking if apple didn't do it. Why would you think it would take a 3rd generation to get retina? Because the iPad? Lol. Technology escalates on case you didn't notice

A non retina resolution screen late 2013 would be embarrassing for Apple on a tablet device. Retina phone, iPad, MacBook, but no mini when that's what everyone wants? Lol
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 10:23 AM   #38
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I will upgrade when they put the retina display in the Mini. I have an iPad 3 and the screen of the Mini doesn't really matter because I have something else when I need it.

I have said this on other threads and don't want to sound like a broken record, but...

For those that think an iPad Mini with retina isn't going to be announced this quarter, what will Apple release? I just think they need to release something in the first half of the year to keep shareholders happy and because that is what they do. Think about what they can release that is portable, the right price and will get people in line. I think the only other product that comes close to this is the MacBook Air. Do you think people will wait in line for one of those? The current Apple TV isn't enough of a draw (even though I love all four of mine), a regular-sized TV will not be cheap enough or small enough to create that store buzz, the MacBooks were recently (for them) updated, the MacPro is too expensive and the iMac was recently updated. For me, that leaves the iPhone, iPad or something totally new.

Concerning price when an iPad Mini with retina comes out, I think it will be around $50-$70 cheaper than the regular iPad with retina. I also think they will keep a non-retina Mini around like they do with the iPad 2. I feel this way because I read something from Cook or Ive where they said that they don't think of the Mini as a product that is lesser than the iPad. They said they just think of it as a miniaturized iPad. Looking at how things are priced now I could see the Mini with retina starting at $429.

I do think we could see a redesigned iPad similar to the design of the Mini. I think that will piss a lot of people off because it will require all new smart covers and cases - it would be physically smaller. Could that make way for an iPad Maxi with an A4-sized screen?
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 10:24 AM   #39
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Only reason I didn't get the 1st gen is because of lack of Retina.
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 10:32 AM   #40
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I don't have one yet, but plan on getting one with current specs.
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 10:44 AM   #41
batting1000
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Originally Posted by blackNBUK View Post
You shouldn't have done as I think you're a lot more right than wrong. Just compare the iPad 2 and the iPad mini. These two have the same processor, same display resolution, same almost everything except for the size of the display and yet the mini gets the same battery life despite having a battery that is just 65% of the capacity of the iPad 2. Physically smaller displays do require less power than larger displays, probably because less backlighting is needed to cover the smaller surface area.

We can use the same logic to get a guesstimate of the weight of a Retina iPad mini that uses the same technology as the current Retina iPad. The Retina iPad has a 42.5 Wh battery in it, 65% of that is 28 Wh. Assuming that all of the extra weight of the Retina iPad over the iPad 2 is battery gives us a figure of 3 grams per Wh. Using that figure means that the iPad mini would need 34 grams more battery giving a total of 342 grams or 0.75 lbs for a WiFi-only device.

Hmmm ... I'm not sure now good this guesstimate is as the weight is still significantly less than a Kindle Fire HD and about the same as a Nexus 7. According to Wikipedia Lithium Polymer batteries range from 130-200 Wh/kg (i.e. 7.7 g/Wh to 5 g/Wh) iFixit weighted the iPad 1's battery at 148g which gives us 6 g/Wh, right in the middle of Wikipedia's range. If use this figure it doubles the weight gain of an iPad mini and gives us 376 grams or 0.83 lbs. That's still pretty good and puts the estimated retina iPad mini right in between the Nexus 7 and the Kindle Fire HD.

Edit: Just thought I'd empathise that this estimate is with Apple's current technology, IGZO displays could shave a good chunk off the energy requirements and thus the weight.
That's exactly what I was thinking. There's less light output due to the actual size being smaller. Two people seem to think I'm wrong though. I'm no engineer or display maker, but it just sounds logical.
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 10:45 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Lunfai View Post
Only reason I didn't get the 1st gen is because of lack of Retina.
Same here. Love the form factor and weight but my eyes hurt when trying to read in portrait mode. Just too used to my iPad 3 I guess.
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 11:09 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Lunfai View Post
Only reason I didn't get the 1st gen is because of lack of Retina.
That's what I thought would be my position before the mini was launched, but the screen turned out to be surprisingly much better than I expected and great for my needs, and when I held it for the first time I knew for certain this product would not disappoint, and it hasn't, not one bit.

That said, I can't wait to see a retina mini either gen 2 or 3 -> I'll definitely upgrade, but until then I'll enjoy this mini I love so much.
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 11:18 AM   #44
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That's what I thought would be my position before the mini was launched, but the screen turned out to be surprisingly much better than I expected and great for my needs, and when I held it for the first time I knew for certain this product would not disappoint, and it hasn't, not one bit.

That said, I can't wait to see a retina mini either gen 2 or 3 -> I'll definitely upgrade, but until then I'll enjoy this mini I love so much.
Yeah, I've just been spoilt by Retina on iPhone and iPads. I've got a MBA, but I'm not really fussy other a Retina screen for that... yet. I remember holding the iPad Mini too, I was VERY pleased with the device and the screen wasn't that much of an issue, but I could tell the difference. I don't really need an iPad, so I'll wait.

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Originally Posted by PBG4 Dude View Post
Same here. Love the form factor and weight but my eyes hurt when trying to read in portrait mode. Just too used to my iPad 3 I guess.
Doesn't hurt mine, but I am being picky
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 11:21 AM   #45
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No. I am not even sure if i'll upgrade if it's Retina.
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 11:35 AM   #46
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Yeah, I've just been spoilt by Retina on iPhone and iPads. I've got a MBA, but I'm not really fussy other a Retina screen for that... yet. I remember holding the iPad Mini too, I was VERY pleased with the device and the screen wasn't that much of an issue, but I could tell the difference. I don't really need an iPad, so I'll wait.
I think it's the perfect complement to the MBA. I've got an 11" MBA, and these two devices are great together - I can carry both of them with other things and they're both so portable and light, I hardly notice them. There are times I need the laptop and other times I don't need the laptop and the mini is perfect - they are really awesome devices and make such a great pair!

I'm with you on the MBA screen, I'd love to see it also get retina (and I'll probably upgrade it then).
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 12:41 PM   #47
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I think it's the perfect complement to the MBA. I've got an 11" MBA, and these two devices are great together - I can carry both of them with other things and they're both so portable and light, I hardly notice them. There are times I need the laptop and other times I don't need the laptop and the mini is perfect - they are really awesome devices and make such a great pair!

I'm with you on the MBA screen, I'd love to see it also get retina (and I'll probably upgrade it then).
I think we'll have to wait till HD5000[?] (the next tick 14nm process), not the HD4600 that'll be featured in Haswell processors. As far as I'm concerned, I can't say I'm not content with the screen on the Air, as it's a dream when calibrated.
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 02:09 PM   #48
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You're not the only one. What is this obsession with a Retina Ipad mini? I don't quite understand it at all. The current resolution of the mini is perfectly fine. A Retina display will serverely reduce battery time and will add more weight to the mini. That's a deal breaker for me. Makes me wonder if these guys even have a mini sometimes.
Believe me: I LOVE my mini. It is the PERFECT form factor, weight is amazing and performance is great. But when I use my retina iPad, there's just no underestimating how great the screen is. The mini desperately needs this, as almost evert other portable product in Apple's lineup is retina. That makes the difference EXTREMELY obvious.
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 03:53 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by blackNBUK View Post
You shouldn't have done as I think you're a lot more right than wrong. Just compare the iPad 2 and the iPad mini. These two have the same processor, same display resolution, same almost everything except for the size of the display and yet the mini gets the same battery life despite having a battery that is just 65% of the capacity of the iPad 2. Physically smaller displays do require less power than larger displays, probably because less backlighting is needed to cover the smaller surface area.

We can use the same logic to get a guesstimate of the weight of a Retina iPad mini that uses the same technology as the current Retina iPad. The Retina iPad has a 42.5 Wh battery in it, 65% of that is 28 Wh. Assuming that all of the extra weight of the Retina iPad over the iPad 2 is battery gives us a figure of 3 grams per Wh. Using that figure means that the iPad mini would need 34 grams more battery giving a total of 342 grams or 0.75 lbs for a WiFi-only device.

Hmmm ... I'm not sure now good this guesstimate is as the weight is still significantly less than a Kindle Fire HD and about the same as a Nexus 7. According to Wikipedia Lithium Polymer batteries range from 130-200 Wh/kg (i.e. 7.7 g/Wh to 5 g/Wh) iFixit weighted the iPad 1's battery at 148g which gives us 6 g/Wh, right in the middle of Wikipedia's range. If use this figure it doubles the weight gain of an iPad mini and gives us 376 grams or 0.83 lbs. That's still pretty good and puts the estimated retina iPad mini right in between the Nexus 7 and the Kindle Fire HD.

Edit: Just thought I'd empathise that this estimate is with Apple's current technology, IGZO displays could shave a good chunk off the energy requirements and thus the weight.
I believe you're confusing the power required for the screen itself and GPU capability to run it smoothly on the retina resolution.
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 08:03 PM   #50
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I think we'll have to wait till HD5000[?] (the next tick 14nm process), not the HD4600 that'll be featured in Haswell processors. As far as I'm concerned, I can't say I'm not content with the screen on the Air, as it's a dream when calibrated.
I'm happy with the resolution of the MBA too, but will love a retina at some point - the issue I have with my 11" is that it's so small, but I only notice it when I'm at home and it's open next to my iMac 24" desktop. When I'm out and about the size of the MBA is fine, I've no problems with it, so at home I bought a 24" IPS monitor to hook it up to so I'd use it more often (and now I have two Macs side by side, life is good!).

Regarding calibration - is that something you suggest, and did you use a standard profile, or can you suggest one? Thanks in advance!
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