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Old Jan 3, 2013, 02:44 AM   #1
stanw
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Enclosure to connect via thunderbolt for multiple drives?

I want to place some harddrives into an enclosure that I can connect to my Mac via Thunderbolt. I do not want the drives in the enclosure to behave as a RAID, but rather I want the drives in the enclosure to show up individually on my desktop as separate drives so I can have access to lots of drives that I can swap in and out of the enclosure.

Is there a device that will do this?

Thanks.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 02:46 AM   #2
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Any enclosure will do that, be it a Firewire 800 or USB 2.0/3.0 or eSATA enclosure.
I do not know of a Thunderbolt enclosure yet, that allows multiple drives.

I myself have a Raidsonic Firewire 800 enclosure with two 1.5 TB HDDs in it, both not put in RAID.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 06:47 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by simsaladimbamba View Post
Any enclosure will do that, be it a Firewire 800 or USB 2.0/3.0 or eSATA enclosure.
I do not know of a Thunderbolt enclosure yet, that allows multiple drives.

I myself have a Raidsonic Firewire 800 enclosure with two 1.5 TB HDDs in it, both not put in RAID.
Thunderbolt enclosure that takes 4 2.5" drives:
http://www.drobo.com/products/profes...mini/index.php
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 01:10 PM   #4
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Promise Pegasus J4

For user benchmarks on it you can read this thread:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1519473
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 01:26 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by qamaro View Post
Promise Pegasus J4

For user benchmarks on it you can read this thread:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1519473
Yes, I think the Pegasus J4 is the best bang for buck, in terms of speed, etc. based on actually using it and the reviews I read b4 purchase.
Still unclear whether the J4 will work in Bootcamp for Win7... I'm working on a driver issue (I just did this last night and emailed Promise support... to be fair, Promise does say this drive is only for Mac, and it works beautifully in ML). There may be driver or a hack available. If Bootcamp is important, the Seagate GoFlex TB adapter worked in both Win7 & OSX ML; it was just slower and only allows 1 drive. IIRC, there are some issues with the DROBO line.
Best Luck!
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 01:50 PM   #6
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There are solutions as listed above. Depends if you want 2.5 or 3.5 drives. Be prepared to pay an absurd amount of money for the enclosure ($600-900). Consider USB 3 as a cheaper option.
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 02:52 PM   #7
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I am not so sure that the Drobo can access each drive individually, I think they build the "beyond RAID" internally to appear as a single drive at the interface.

The Pegasus J4 looks like a great 4 disk solution where all of the disks appear individually and can be software RAIDed as desired. I too suspect problems with Windows (says it is not compatible) since it appears to need drivers (which also may preclude booting OS X from this enclosure). I also worry a bit about the short list of supported drives and SSDs with specific firmware versions. This may just be what they have actually tested, or it may indicate a problem with drives not in the lists.

The LaCie "Little Big Disk" holds 2 drives which are individually accessible. It comes configured as a RAID-0 using Apple software RAID from Disk Utility (RAID-0, 1, JBOD). You can un-raid them and use the disks individually, but you lose the speed advantage. This does not need OS X drivers, but my initial attempt to boot Windows from it wasn't totally successful (it isn't listed as Windows compatible). I am tempted to make an external Fusion drive with one of these to see how it works using a small SSD and a 1TB hard disk. MacMall has refurbished disk units for $210+ which can be used for swapping the hard disks for SSDs.

I would like to see a small, quiet, 4-bay 2.5" system which is OS X and Windows compatible (no drivers) and individual drives. Anyone know of one?



-howard

Last edited by hfg; Jan 4, 2013 at 03:28 PM.
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 05:05 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by hfg View Post
I am not so sure that the Drobo can access each drive individually, I think they build the "beyond RAID" internally to appear as a single drive at the interface.

The Pegasus J4 looks like a great 4 disk solution where all of the disks appear individually and can be software RAIDed as desired. I too suspect problems with Windows (says it is not compatible) since it appears to need drivers (which also may preclude booting OS X from this enclosure). I also worry a bit about the short list of supported drives and SSDs with specific firmware versions. This may just be what they have actually tested, or it may indicate a problem with drives not in the lists.

I would like to see a small, quiet, 4-bay 2.5" system which is OS X and Windows compatible (no drivers) and individual drives. Anyone know of one?
-howard
I can verify that the Pegasus J4 boots OSX ML like a house on fire... very very quickly. So far, I haven't worked out the Windows Bootcamp issue yet, but I only started on this last night. J4 works excellently with Samsung 840 series. There is testing info posted on another thread, if you're interested. http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1519473

Last edited by bonedaddio; Jan 4, 2013 at 05:10 PM.
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 05:21 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by bonedaddio View Post
I can verify that the Pegasus J4 boots OSX ML like a house on fire... very very quickly. So far, I haven't worked out the Windows Bootcamp issue yet, but I only started on this last night. J4 works excellently with Samsung 840 series. There is testing info posted on another thread, if you're interested. http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1519473
That is great news! Now, if you can get it to boot/run with a Windows disk in there it will be perfect for me.

Please keep us informed on your progress with exploring the capabilities of this enclosure.


-howard
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 08:20 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by stanw View Post
I want to place some harddrives into an enclosure that I can connect to my Mac via Thunderbolt. I do not want the drives in the enclosure to behave as a RAID, but rather I want the drives in the enclosure to show up individually on my desktop as separate drives so I can have access to lots of drives that I can swap in and out of the enclosure.

Is there a device that will do this?

Thanks.
That is one of the weaker points of the Pegasus J4, the drives are not easily swapped in and out as on the Drobo. You have to remove several screws and take off the bottom plate for access to the drives, which are held in with one screw on the outside edge (the drives are all mounted on the same plane, with each drive pointing in a different direction like a carousel).


-howard
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 03:31 PM   #11
bonedaddio
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Originally Posted by hfg View Post
That is great news! Now, if you can get it to boot/run with a Windows disk in there it will be perfect for me.

Please keep us informed on your progress with exploring the capabilities of this enclosure.


-howard
I heard back from Promise support today:
Request:- 4th January 2013 at 6:54
Hi I have a Pegasus J4 (without drives). I'm running it under OSX Mountain Lion, with Samsung 840 SSDs; it shows up and works excellently. When I use Bootcamp, the J4 doesn't show up in Windows. In Device manager, it shows a problem with a driver?? What driver would I use to make this show up in bootcamp? I'm using Windows 7 64bit. I have a Seagate Thunderbolt GoFlex that shows up just fine under Bootcamp/Windows.
Help??

Response By:- Pradeep Chidambaranath 4th January 2013 at 21:6
Hi Leslie,

Thank you for choosing our solutions for your storage needs.

We are sorry to inform you that Pegasus J4 is not compatible with Windows operating system. The product is just launched so we may expect some windows driver updates for Pegasus J4. However, we do not have a ETA on this.

Thanks and Regards
Pradeep C
Promise Technical Support.
So it looks "promising" for a Windows driver Anyway, you'd think that Promise would want some of that Windoze market and would develop a driver. There are some similar but apparently not the correct drivers on Intel's website. Here's hoping.
Drobo Mini TB enclosure, no disks = $610+ it does offer USB 3.0. Some love this thing. There appear to be some issues with it: limited SSD brands supported; noisy fan; Windows not supported yet... YMMV, that's what I'm seeing in reviews.
Pegasus J4, no disks = $387.00 No windows boot at this time; other than that, it's a pistol.
As far as swapping drives... I'm not going to be moving it around, I'd probably just use velcro to secure the lid; the drives plug in so securely I'm not sure I'd even use the screws... I didn't during testing... so switching drives isn't THAT painful. BUT, the Drobo would definitely be easier to swap.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 03:47 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonedaddio View Post
I heard back from Promise support today:
Request:- 4th January 2013 at 6:54
Hi I have a Pegasus J4 (without drives). I'm running it under OSX Mountain Lion, with Samsung 840 SSDs; it shows up and works excellently. When I use Bootcamp, the J4 doesn't show up in Windows. In Device manager, it shows a problem with a driver?? What driver would I use to make this show up in bootcamp? I'm using Windows 7 64bit. I have a Seagate Thunderbolt GoFlex that shows up just fine under Bootcamp/Windows.
Help??

Response By:- Pradeep Chidambaranath 4th January 2013 at 21:6
Hi Leslie,

Thank you for choosing our solutions for your storage needs.

We are sorry to inform you that Pegasus J4 is not compatible with Windows operating system. The product is just launched so we may expect some windows driver updates for Pegasus J4. However, we do not have a ETA on this.

Thanks and Regards
Pradeep C
Promise Technical Support.
So it looks "promising" for a Windows driver Anyway, you'd think that Promise would want some of that Windoze market and would develop a driver. There are some similar but apparently not the correct drivers on Intel's website. Here's hoping.
Drobo Mini TB enclosure, no disks = $610+ it does offer USB 3.0. Some love this thing. There appear to be some issues with it: limited SSD brands supported; noisy fan; Windows not supported yet... YMMV, that's what I'm seeing in reviews.
Pegasus J4, no disks = $387.00 No windows boot at this time; other than that, it's a pistol.
As far as swapping drives... I'm not going to be moving it around, I'd probably just use velcro to secure the lid; the drives plug in so securely I'm not sure I'd even use the screws... I didn't during testing... so switching drives isn't THAT painful. BUT, the Drobo would definitely be easier to swap.
Thanks for the feedback from Promise support ... Maybe ... someday!

The Drobo Mini TB is a really nice looking unit, however it doesn't present the enclosed drives as separate entities to OS X. You can't access each drive individually to build separate drives or raid arrays. It seems to be a backup or single drive solution for redundant "beyond raid" storage only.


The J4 still looks to be the most versatile unit available today ... hopefully with Windows support in the future.

-howard
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 05:04 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by hfg View Post
Thanks for the feedback from Promise support ... Maybe ... someday!

The Drobo Mini TB is a really nice looking unit, however it doesn't present the enclosed drives as separate entities to OS X. You can't access each drive individually to build separate drives or raid arrays. It seems to be a backup or single drive solution for redundant "beyond raid" storage only.


The J4 still looks to be the most versatile unit available today ... hopefully with Windows support in the future.

-howard


I can't recall and I don't want to tear down my existing drobo but, I thought you could set the drobo with distinct volumes so that it will present multiple drives within the one physical array. I know they show how to do this to allow for Time Machine to work on as to show the OS a distinct secondary storage drive. Here is the support article.

Time Machine and Drobo

I think with this solution you might be able to try to create a HFS+ partition for OSX and another with NTFS for Windows Data (although I think Windows 8 allows you to mount / see HFS volumes - I could be wrong - haven't worked with it enough yet).
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 05:19 PM   #14
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I did see one review on Amazon where they mention that the Mini was not Windows compatible. Just sayin... I'd do a lot more research B4 I spent $600 for a bare enclosure. After my research, I went with the J4, and so far, I'm quite pleased. (YPLWVBURE = "Your Pleasure Level Will Vary Based Upon Research and Expectations")
From Drobo support: Drobo Mini Doesn't Support Windows Nope; not as of 11/30/2013. FWIW: I think they'll ALL end up working in Windoze, it's mostly a question of when the MFR puts the resources into it. Thunderbolt is NOT a Mac only thing; we've just been pushed into it early.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 05:28 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by qamaro View Post
I can't recall and I don't want to tear down my existing drobo but, I thought you could set the drobo with distinct volumes so that it will present multiple drives within the one physical array. I know they show how to do this to allow for Time Machine to work on as to show the OS a distinct secondary storage drive. Here is the support article.

Time Machine and Drobo

I think with this solution you might be able to try to create a HFS+ partition for OSX and another with NTFS for Windows Data (although I think Windows 8 allows you to mount / see HFS volumes - I could be wrong - haven't worked with it enough yet).
The support article indicates that the Drobo is seen as a single composite drive which can be partitioned like any other drive, but it doesn't give independent access to each individual physical disk contained within the Drobo enclosure.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 05:38 PM   #16
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The support article indicates that the Drobo is seen as a single composite drive which can be partitioned like any other drive, but it doesn't give independent access to each individual physical disk contained within the Drobo enclosure.
Correct it wouldn't but if the OS see's them as drive volume you might be able to use a partition of it for different OS's (like folks partition up regular volumes to do the same thing). Just giving folks options but you are correct it won't let you see them as JBOD.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 04:04 PM   #17
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Well ... I ordered a Pegasus J4 ... so will be testing its versatility like others who have shared their experiences.


Any new information from those who have them in their hands?


-howard
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 10:16 PM   #18
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1. I'm not sure which is faster, USB 3.0 or Thunderbolt?

2. If USB 3.0 is faster or as fast as thunderbolt, then what about enclosures for multiple drives based on USB 3.0? I have heard bad things about drobo, so anything else?

Thanks!
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 11:08 PM   #19
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1. I'm not sure which is faster, USB 3.0 or Thunderbolt?

2. If USB 3.0 is faster or as fast as thunderbolt, then what about enclosures for multiple drives based on USB 3.0? I have heard bad things about drobo, so anything else?

Thanks!
Thunderbolt is twice as fast as USB 3.0 (spec)

Thunderbolt = 10 Gb/s
USB 3.0 = 5 Gb/s (slightly slower than SATA-III @ 6 Gb/s)

If you are going for a RAID-0 setup for speed, you probably want Thunderbolt.

If you are just hooking up a hard disk based JBOD, then it doesn't matter other than USB interfaces consume more CPU processing than Thunderbolt. USB is also much less expensive ... your call.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 03:06 PM   #20
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I received my Pegasus J4 and loaded it with 4 HGST Travelstar 1TB 7200rpm hard disk drives. It is a really nice looking unit.

I found it wouldn't even see the drives without first loading the driver. Once the driver was loaded and rebooted, I used Disk Utility to create different RAID-0 arrays and tested them with BlackMagicDesign "DiskSpeedTest" with 4GB test option. I ran the test on a single disk, 2-disk, 3-disk, and 4-disk RAID-0 configurations. I also ran the AJA test which produced similar results.

Results:
config ....... Write / Read MB/s
1 disk ....... 115 / 129
2 disk ....... 250 / 258
3 disk ....... 345 / 375
4 disk ....... 501 / 507

I like it!


Of course, running 4 hard disks in RAID-0 ... YOU WILL WANT TO KEEP A GOOD BACKUP STRATEGY!

-howard

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Old Jan 10, 2013, 03:15 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by hfg View Post
I received my Pegasus J4 and loaded it with 4 HGST Travelstar 1TB 7200rpm hard disk drives. It is a really nice looking unit.

...

Results:
config ....... Write / Read MB/s
1 disk ....... 115 / 129
2 disk ....... 250 / 258
3 disk ....... 345 / 375
4 disk ....... 501 / 507

I like it!

...
Very nice! Do you plan on adding SSDs (Samsung 840 PROs is what i'm thinking) and trying to boot Windows 7?
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 03:24 PM   #22
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Very nice! Do you plan on adding SSDs (Samsung 840 PROs is what i'm thinking) and trying to boot Windows 7?
I am pretty sure it won't do Windows at all. Pegasus does not have a Windows driver at this time, although they reported they were thinking about it.

When I started thinking about adding the J4 to my iMac, I changed my strategy regarding Windows.

Originally, I had Windows 8 running on an external 840 Pro with Thunderbolt interface. Due to the Windows issue with virtually all external Thunderbolt multi-drive enclosures, I decided to allocate 256GB of the iMac internal SSD to Windows, leaving me 500GB internal for OS X. I can then use the Pegasus J4 with any combination of hard disk or SSDs to accommodate my additional OS X needs.

Of course ... my new problem is how to effectively allocate the external 4 drives to my best advantage with regard to speed, capacity, & security in a mix of hard disks and SSDs. That will keep me thinking for awhile ...

I am really impressed with how quiet the J4 is with 4 7200rpm disks in it. I currently have it on my desk in front of me, but was planning on locating it under the desk where I wouldn't hear it. But I really can't hear it now!

It looks like it would sit nicely on the iMac stand base, with a DVD optical drive sitting on top of it.

-howard
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 03:40 PM   #23
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When you had it apart you didn't happen to notice what chips/chipsets Promise is using in these? I wonder if its a Thunderbolt to PCIe and PCIe based SATA controller setup like we've seen on many of the other solutions.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 03:44 PM   #24
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When you had it apart you didn't happen to notice what chips/chipsets Promise is using in these? I wonder if its a Thunderbolt to PCIe and PCIe based SATA controller setup like we've seen on many of the other solutions.
I didn't take it that far apart. You remove 5 screws and lift off the cover, which presents a platform with 4 SATA connectors for mounting 4 ea. 2.5" drives in a carousel pattern. You would have to remove this from the base to see the electronics, although there is a small "trap door" on the bottom which holds the plug-in fan for easy replacement and you can peek in through that and maybe see the chips.

I have only had it for a couple of hours, so will explore more as I get time.

-howard
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 07:39 PM   #25
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I can verify that the Pegasus J4 boots OSX ML like a house on fire... very very quickly. So far, I haven't worked out the Windows Bootcamp issue yet, but I only started on this last night. J4 works excellently with Samsung 840 series. There is testing info posted on another thread, if you're interested. http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1519473
Is there some setting you have to set from a configuration console to get a bootable J4?

Mine doesn't boot OS X, probably because the driver isn't installed at that point and it doesn't provide a "bios" to inject one into the initial system. I notice that the blue "disk icons" on the front panel are not lit until I actually log-in to OS X, so they are in my personal environment (I may look into trying to move that process to the basic OS X system level so all logins will have access to the drive system). I notice that it also goes to sleep when the iMac does, shutting down into a standby mode.

I don't need it to be bootable, but I thought it would be nice to have that capability for emergency booting if something were to happen to the internal boot drive (but I always keep a bootable portable drive in my desk for such occasions).

I had originally ordered the R4, but changed my mind minutes after I pressed the button and cancelled and ordered the J4 instead. I am really glad I did that. The J4 will give me much more flexibility to mix and match drives and configurations and be much more than just a big disk like the R4. It is also way smaller, quieter, and easier to integrate into the iMac "minimalist" desktop environment.

It is actually like my old Mac Pro with the 4 drive bays that I could configure as I desired.


-howard

Last edited by hfg; Jan 10, 2013 at 07:48 PM.
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