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Old Jan 9, 2013, 11:32 AM   #326
Gamoe
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At the risk of being the black sheep here, I'll say that I've owned and liked my Netbook. It is an Asus EeePC and I run Ubuntu on it. I have to say, i won't be getting one come replacement time (even if they were available), mostly because I prefer OS X or iOS, but it's done its job well, considering what I paid for it, at a fraction of the cost of a full-fledged MacBook and still cheaper than most laptops and tablets. In any case, the tablet + keyboard combination is basically a netbook in form factor.
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 08:54 PM   #327
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Originally Posted by AidenShaw View Post
Call me when I can buy a laptop with 43 TB of DAS ....

... I won't stay awake waiting for the call.
Call me when you can take your desktop with 43tb on the road with you.

There's this new technology out that you may have heard of. It's called ethernet, and enables you to access storage not inside your machine.

It also enables you to plug those 43tb worth of disks into a machine actually suited for storage (running ZFS or similar) so you can actually also have data integrity (checksums, self healing) rather than relying on NTFS and Windows to keep your storage available.
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 09:08 PM   #328
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Originally Posted by throAU View Post
Call me when you can take your desktop with 43tb on the road with you.
On the road, I take one of my Win7 laptops, or my Win8 tablet, or my Nexus 7 - depending on what I expect to need to do while away. And it's "need-driven". I'll take the 13" 8 GiB dual core if I need a bit of power - or the 15" 16 GiB quad core if I'll be editing photos and video. If only web/email, the Nexus 7.

Your comment is absurd....


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There's this new technology out that you may have heard of. It's called ethernet, and enables you to access storage not inside your machine.
Could you be any more snarky?

My desktop has about 24 Gbps of disk IO bandwidth. What's the bandwidth of this "ethernet" thingy that you're touting?
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 09:13 PM   #329
throAU
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On the road, I take one of my Win7 laptops,


...

My desktop has about 24 Gbps of disk IO bandwidth. What's the bandwidth of this "ethernet" thingy that you're touting?

So

A: you have multiple laptops for your single desktop. Sure sounds like the laptop market is dead?


B: Your desktop has 24Gbps of sequential IO throughput, maybe. Non-sequential (i.e., real world) IO? Lol. Nope. In any case, install a couple of 10GbE nics, team them with LACP and you can get that over the network. To all of your machines.


Are you not concerned that Windows NTFS has no way of detecting bit-rot on your 43tb of data?


Quote:
Originally Posted by AidenShaw
Could you be any more snarky?
I dunno.

Maybe i need to learn from a master.

Quote:
Call me when I can buy a laptop with 43 TB of DAS ....

... I won't stay awake waiting for the call.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 03:52 AM   #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by throAU View Post
B: Your desktop has 24Gbps of sequential IO throughput, maybe. Non-sequential (i.e., real world) IO? Lol. Nope. In any case, install a couple of 10GbE nics, team them with LACP and you can get that over the network. To all of your machines.
Yes, because a LACP setup over 10 GbE will probably be cheaper than his multiple SATA controllers.

Come on, be real.

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Are you not concerned that Windows NTFS has no way of detecting bit-rot on your 43tb of data?
We're not even concerned where I work with that at an Enterprise level. We use NTFS and ext3 extensively.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 05:54 AM   #331
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Originally Posted by HishamAkhtar View Post
Wow.

Apple literally KILLED a category.
People just started buying cheap Android tablets, premium Android tablets, iPads & making use of their smartphones to browse the web instead of buying crappy Netbooks. It's not all down to Apple.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 09:39 PM   #332
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The whole notebook industry is dead. The market is at this point simply saturated and everyone has moved on to more mobile devices such as tablets and smartphones. Notebooks are basically for the niche now. The MBA13, MBP15 retina and some high-end business PC laptops would probably still sell in this market but any other laptop not.

Why would you still invest in $2200 MBP when you can buy a better desktop+smartphone+tablet for the same amount.
Are you for real? Everyone has moved on to tablets? Do you realize that tablets are limited in task they can do? I would go on to list them but the list is too long.

And what kind of job do you have? Because at my job the programs we use can only be used on a desktop or a laptop. A word processing is awful on tablets. Even if Microsoft office comes to tablets its going to be a very watered down version. Because no tablet out there could currently handle it.

Notebooks are hardly a niche. When tablets can run full operating systems like osx or windows. Then we could talk.
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 05:04 AM   #333
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Are you for real? Everyone has moved on to tablets? Do you realize that tablets are limited in task they can do? I would go on to list them but the list is too long.

And what kind of job do you have? Because at my job the programs we use can only be used on a desktop or a laptop. A word processing is awful on tablets. Even if Microsoft office comes to tablets its going to be a very watered down version. Because no tablet out there could currently handle it.

Notebooks are hardly a niche. When tablets can run full operating systems like osx or windows. Then we could talk.
I don't see anyone with notebooks out in public anymore. Not even at the usual places like airports, universities, starbucks. Most people just want to use an internet device for Facebook, youtube, games, instagram, internet, music. The price, mobility, connectivity, UI, battery life and display of a tablet makes it supreme. The majority knows that. And anyone else is just niche.

Btw if computers from the 90ies can run MS office than tablets from today will run circles around it. Hook it up to a BT keyboard and you are good to go.
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 05:09 AM   #334
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Originally Posted by Steve121178 View Post
People just started buying cheap Android tablets, premium Android tablets, iPads & making use of their smartphones to browse the web instead of buying crappy Netbooks. It's not all down to Apple.
It kinda is, it's not like the sales of any of the other tablets really matter. The ipad alone is akin to the 11th largest tech company in the world.
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 06:39 AM   #335
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I don't see anyone with notebooks out in public anymore. Not even at the usual places like airports, universities, starbucks.
I see plenty of them. Maybe you're just not looking ?
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 06:41 AM   #336
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Originally Posted by imacintosh.0 View Post
it's not like the sales of any of the other tablets really matter.
Why not?
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 06:45 AM   #337
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Why not?
Newbie, registered a few days ago. Guess why not. Don't get into an argument, the guy is probably just here to rile up people with "Apple is the best, everything else is crap".

The netbook industry died because netbooks were a poor value proposition, even at the price point they were selling. People flocked to tablets because the netbooks were really awful. 9"-10" 1024x600 displays was not a comfortable way to work using the standard Windows UI, it was a throwback to the 90s.

Personally, I never liked the netbooks, too cramped, but then again, I don't like tablets either. I've yet to find a comfortable position with a tablet where I can spend hours browsing the web or doing anything on them, like I can with a laptop just sitting there, on my lap, or on a table.

Tablets need to be propped up, either by your knees (can't extend your legs) or require you to bend your neck down to look at them. I just don't like the ergonomy of them.
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 06:52 AM   #338
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It's a shame re: netbooks. I still have plenty of people I know who use them and it's a great option for them despite some shortcomings. Having a cheap, light computer with a built in keyboard is far different from a tablet with or without a wireless keyboard.

That's why - despite having its own "shortcomings" chromebooks are intriguing to me. It would probably be even more so if Google merged/replaced ChromeOS with Android.



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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
Newbie, registered a few days ago. Guess why not. Don't get into an argument, the guy is probably just here to rile up people with "Apple is the best, everything else is crap".

The netbook industry died because netbooks were a poor value proposition, even at the price point they were selling. People flocked to tablets because the netbooks were really awful. 9"-10" 1024x600 displays was not a comfortable way to work using the standard Windows UI, it was a throwback to the 90s.

Personally, I never liked the netbooks, too cramped, but then again, I don't like tablets either. I've yet to find a comfortable position with a tablet where I can spend hours browsing the web or doing anything on them, like I can with a laptop just sitting there, on my lap, or on a table.

Tablets need to be propped up, either by your knees (can't extend your legs) or require you to bend your neck down to look at them. I just don't like the ergonomy of them.
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 06:55 AM   #339
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It's a shame re: netbooks. I still have plenty of people I know who use them and it's a great option for them despite some shortcomings. Having a cheap, light computer with a built in keyboard is far different from a tablet with or without a wireless keyboard.

That's why - despite having its own "shortcomings" chromebooks are intriguing to me. It would probably be even more so if Google merged/replaced ChromeOS with Android.
I think Ultrabooks/Ultra-portables are much better value propositions than netbooks ever were. 11-13" screens with decent, over 720p resolutions (16:10 is even better than 16:9) yet remain highly portable and light. My Macbook Air was a dream, and I miss that aspect of it having moved on to a best of a rMBP 15".

Intel/Sony/Apply really nailed it these days with the light form factor with big screen real-estate and full size ergonomic keyboards.

Don't get me started on tablet on-screen keyboards or the famous "you can just drag along a BT keyboard!"... pure nonsense.
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 07:04 AM   #340
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I agree. The operative word in my previous post was cheap. $199/$250 for a Chromebook is pretty nice. The Ultrabooks/Ultra-portables are clearly superior - but they do come at a cost which takes the device from something you won't "cry" over losing/breaking to something you do.

It all really comes down to individual use case. Unlike some - I don't care o ring death knells for products just because they serve no purpose to me. If it works for someone else - that's great. Just like I would never argue a device shouldn't have some feature just because I'd never use it.

I would imagine a lot of people on this thread just talk about how netbooks suck but have either never actually used one and/or it just doesn't make sense to them. But they do so with a perceived "anger" as if someone is forcing them to use one.

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I think Ultrabooks/Ultra-portables are much better value propositions than netbooks ever were. 11-13" screens with decent, over 720p resolutions (16:10 is even better than 16:9) yet remain highly portable and light. My Macbook Air was a dream, and I miss that aspect of it having moved on to a best of a rMBP 15".

Intel/Sony/Apply really nailed it these days with the light form factor with big screen real-estate and full size ergonomic keyboards.

Don't get me started on tablet on-screen keyboards or the famous "you can just drag along a BT keyboard!"... pure nonsense.
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 07:06 AM   #341
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
I think Ultrabooks/Ultra-portables are much better value propositions than netbooks ever were. 11-13" screens with decent, over 720p resolutions (16:10 is even better than 16:9) yet remain highly portable and light. My Macbook Air was a dream, and I miss that aspect of it having moved on to a best of a rMBP 15".

Intel/Sony/Apply really nailed it these days with the light form factor with big screen real-estate and full size ergonomic keyboards.

Don't get me started on tablet on-screen keyboards or the famous "you can just drag along a BT keyboard!"... pure nonsense.
Yeah the bt keyboard thing is a bit cumbersome, but the transformer android tablets have the keyboard dock which is actually pretty cool. I keep mine docked all the time so it's like a poor man's touchscreen laptop. Still works great though
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 07:07 AM   #342
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I would imagine a lot of people on this thread just talk about how netbooks suck but have either never actually used one and/or it just doesn't make sense to them. But they do so with a perceived "anger" as if someone is forcing them to use one.
I agree, that's just daft. I never liked netbooks, if someone tried to tell me how great his new netbook was, I would kindly tell him to get it off my desk as I had no interest in them and didn't find them great at all, but that was it.

I didn't actively campaign against them.

Same for tablets. I don't get them, I don't like them, if they are a fad and end up gone in a few years I won't cry, but if it works out and they are available to those who want them, I don't give a crap either.
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 09:15 AM   #343
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Originally Posted by surjavarman View Post
I don't see anyone with notebooks out in public anymore. Not even at the usual places like airports, universities, starbucks. Most people just want to use an internet device for Facebook, youtube, games, instagram, internet, music. The price, mobility, connectivity, UI, battery life and display of a tablet makes it supreme. The majority knows that. And anyone else is just niche.

Btw if computers from the 90ies can run MS office than tablets from today will run circles around it. Hook it up to a BT keyboard and you are good to go.
Then you need to get out more. I see notebooks all the time when I travel.
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 05:35 PM   #344
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Originally Posted by surjavarman View Post
I don't see anyone with notebooks out in public anymore.
You must not go far. I always see 5x more notebooks on planes than tablets.

Quote:
The price, mobility, connectivity, UI, battery life and display of a tablet makes it supreme. The majority knows that. And anyone else is just niche.
I'm not sure you know what "majority" means. $699 for a tablet is better than a $300 notebook...how?

UI? You mean limited apps based around a kindergarten interface? Yeah, that's great for playing Bejeweled. Try running Logic Pro on a tablet....

Battery Life? That depends entirely on the notebook in question. You can easily change batteries on many notebooks (including my '08 Macbook Pro). You're SOL of if you run out of power on a plane with an iPad or even a newer Macbook.

I don't even know what you mean by connectivity seeing my notebooks have Ethernet, Firewire and USB in addition to WiFi and Bluetooth plus a dedicated Microphone port. With my portable FW Audio interface, I have Pro Mic, Analog, Digital, Guitar and Midi interfaces available as well (you know for that portable studio I mentioned earlier). Exactly how is NOT having those options superior in connectivity???

Quote:
Btw if computers from the 90ies can run MS office than tablets from today will run circles around it. Hook it up to a BT keyboard and you are good to go.
Microsoft Office is an odd comparison given how much it's changed over the years and the fact that it's not available for the iPad and even when it is, it won't have as many features (true of most tablet apps). The idea that a tablet from today can run circles around a 1990s computer is well...obvious, but how does that make it superior to a notebook today? An A6 won't come close to an i3, let alone a Quad i7.

If you're happy with tablets, great. Personally, the only use I have for them is as a remote and coffee table internet/mail checker in my home theater room. I'd rather use an iPod Touch or iPhone for sheer portability (i.e. it fits in my pocket) and I fail to see how having to carry a BT keyboard along PLUS a tablet is a superior setup to a notebook with a folding lid (i.e. I could carry the notebook by itself if I had to; the tablet + keyboard instantly necessitates a carrying case of some kind plus even if they were magnetic or something, you now have the same basic shape as a notebook, so...what's the point? Hence, I don't "get" tablets at all when you could have a notebook that isn't much bigger and has way more usability for a very similar price (the appeal of Netbooks was that they cost almost nothing and so for just e-mail, internet and office stuff you didn't have to worry about taking them on trips, etc.). I got my Netbook for the price of a freaking Kindle for goodness sake and it runs the full version of Snow Leopard just fine.
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 08:51 PM   #345
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Didn't y'all get the memo from Intel that they decided that "UltraBook" was a better name than "NetBook"?

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Old Jan 11, 2013, 10:20 PM   #346
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Didn't y'all get the memo from Intel that they decided that "UltraBook" was a better name than "NetBook"?

Tempest. Teapot. In.
I would have preferred UltimaBook. But I wouldn't buy one until at least Ultimabook III (code name Exodus) as I have a feeling the first two iterations would be half-baked. It probably wouldn't reach its absolute prime until Ultimabook IV, though.
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 11:34 PM   #347
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
The netbook industry died because netbooks were a poor value proposition, even at the price point they were selling. People flocked to tablets because the netbooks were really awful. 9"-10" 1024x600 displays was not a comfortable way to work using the standard Windows UI, it was a throwback to the 90s.
I can agree with this, I love my Netbooks for the fact that they are connective, and that they are cheap, and I don't care if I leave it in a Random Hotel in France or Russia, and they do give me better function than a Tablet, but for real use? No way.

Quote:
Personally, I never liked the netbooks, too cramped, but then again, I don't like tablets either. I've yet to find a comfortable position with a tablet where I can spend hours browsing the web or doing anything on them, like I can with a laptop just sitting there, on my lap, or on a table.
I agree, Cramped. But I'll take a Netbook over a tablet if I'm on the vacation, its just enough to do basic stuff. I also dislike tablets in general, but I did spring on a Surface RT, it most likely will replace my three netbooks for vacations. Its not to bad.

Quote:
Tablets need to be propped up, either by your knees (can't extend your legs) or require you to bend your neck down to look at them. I just don't like the ergonomy of them.
Yep, laying down is even more impossible.
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 11:35 PM   #348
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Cheap netbooks made the most sense in..... developing countries.

Several initiatives were launched a few years ago to popularize the use of netbooks in those Third World nations, especially in educational programs which were state-subsidized. School districts in rural India or the backwoods of Timbuktu could not possibly afford full-featured laptops as educational tools. The use of netbooks in these situations made sense.

Otherwise? Meh. I certainly won't miss them.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 08:50 PM   #349
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A: you have multiple laptops for your single desktop. Sure sounds like the laptop market is dead?
Actually, I have three desktops at home that I use every day, and several laptops - which might not be used for weeks on end.

Currently my most used laptop is a 14" Core 2 Duo Latitude. Next would be the T61p ThinkPad 1920x1080 Core 2 Duo that lives in the kitchen, a couple of times a week at the most. I have the quad core W510 ThinkPad - only comes out when I need to use virtual machines on the road (quad core and 16 GiB is handy). few others that get used even less.

At the office, a Core i7 desktop. Sometimes connect the "most used" Latitude (docking station and 24" monitor at work as well as at home for it). A second Core i7 desktop for projects (as in reformat and install a clean OS and apps and try something).

Why do you assume anything about how I work?
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