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Old Jan 3, 2013, 05:09 PM   #51
Imac&SoShouldU
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I just don't understand why there's so many Microsoft & android trolls on this site. I've been to android forums & I don't see any apple trolls...I don't mean to sound like a fanboy but...we are not like these idiots. Lol...don't feed the animals. Just leave them alone.
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Originally Posted by QCassidy352 View Post
Oh please. The general market spoke, and it sided with Jobs. Deal with it.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 05:09 PM   #52
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Hardly surprising. Most manufacturers stopped making them a year ago. The remains few were likely only clearing stock.

The Intel Atom didnt exactly help things. It was supposed to be a low power, cool processor designed for netbooks. It turned out to be a mind numbingly slow, very hot pile of crud.

Intel have no place in the low-power market anymore, despite their efforts with an Intel mobile chip.

----------



No. Just. No. Not even close.
I'm interested in hearing how you think people didn't follow Apple? Every time Apple comes out with something everyone finds "prior art" as if it had any significance at all. When Apple comes out with a product, you can't deny they usually get it right the first time and other people follow.

With the Macbook Air, it took a few iterations to solve the heat issues, but Apple were pretty much the driving force for Ultrabooks today. Once the 2010 Macbook Air's came out, we started see more people buying Airs. Then in 2011, a large spec bump and price drop made it a viable option. That's when we started seeing all these Ultrabooks.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 05:10 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by kevinfulton.ca View Post
Fair enough. Intel creates the category that Apple was leading before said category was even created. How's that?
That would be somewhat incorrect.
The original MBA was a slow turd with crappy graphics. The only thing it had going for it was good looks.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 05:14 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kockgunner View Post
I'm interested in hearing how you think people didn't follow Apple? Every time Apple comes out with something everyone finds "prior art" as if it had any significance at all. When Apple comes out with a product, you can't deny they usually get it right the first time and other people follow.
Tell me this. What exactly did Apple "invent" with the Macbook Air that hasn't been done before?

If you can answer this question, then you might have a point.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 05:21 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Imac&SoShouldU View Post
I just don't understand why there's so many Microsoft & android trolls on this site. I've been to android forums & I don't see any apple trolls...I don't mean to sound like a fanboy but...we are not like these idiots. Lol...don't feed the animals. Just leave them alone.
Agreed. It's almost like those people thrive on being contrarians. They wouldn't enjoy being on forums where people agree with their views, they just want to cause trouble here.

It's one thing to hold a different point of view, it's another thing to be a pestering thorn in the sides of people that disagree.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 05:22 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
In Walter Isaacson's Jobs bio he claims it was Jony Ive who suggested Apple's netbook not have a physical keyboard:
And without Steve's blessing where would it have gone (at Apple) ?
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 05:24 PM   #57
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I would still consider a 'Chromebook' a netbook, with as much usefulness as a netbook.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 05:27 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Mabus51 View Post
What I love about ignorant PC users. They all use the same joke calling us sheep. Yet the tech industry says different by coping everything Apple does. You are the sheep and we are the shepherds. So following along little sheep with your plastic unintuitive Microsoft toys.
I agree. Even with my Nexus 7 I still agree, because I know this tablet wouldn't exist if the iPad was never released. Apple is the current leader of the industry.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 05:28 PM   #59
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I still think Netbooks are better than iPads. My Dell netbook hacked to run OSX lets me run the software I want to run (e.g. Firefox) that Apple won't let me run plus it has more ram, disk space and a full keyboard and mouse and cost 1/2 of what an iPad costs. I can run full versions of Microsoft Office and even Photoshop if I need to. I see zero advantage to an iPad over that other than perhaps specific Apps that were never ported over to OSX from iOS versions (i.e. a limitation of software incompatibility, not an advantage of the iPad itself per se, which really is just a touch-screen hardware limited platform with limited software). Of course, I'm only trying to do so much with it and I only expect so much with it for only $280. Even so, I can run software no iPad on Earth can run and much of it runs reasonably well, especially for the price. I can take that Netbook on vacation without worrying about dropping it or it getting stolen like I would a $2k MBP.

The reason the "experience" is touted as better on an iPad by many people is the same reason gaming is touted as better by people who have Playstations. The software is created only for that platform and this leads to software that run WELL on that limited platform as opposed to desktop software that really expected more power to run right.

In other words, ultimately, the primary reason a Netbook "sucks" is that it's trying to run software that was designed for faster computers and so it feels "slow" while the iPad runs software that was designed to run on its limited power and so it feels "faster" when in reality, it's more of an illusion of power.

However, that is changing with newer iPads leaving older ones in the dust and unsupported, which I think will eventually start working against Apple in the long run since this is the very reason that video game consoles have such a LONG life-cycle; people want software that WORKS RIGHT on their system for a reasonable length of time and 1-year isn't very reasonable, IMO and yet that may be what it comes to, especially for things like games on iOS devices where we're already seeing games that take advantage of the current generation now working at all with the previous one; look at the Karateka thread for iPod 5G to see what I mean; the 4G sold just 6 months ago can't run it).

And while I like the iPod touch and iPhone because they fit in my pocket, an iPad takes up nearly as much room in a bag as a Netbook so they offer little advantage for portability. Windows8 tablets will double as Notebooks/Netbooks in addition to acting like tablets, so in some respects, I think that may have more to do with the death of the Netbook (which was never offered for OSX to begin with) than anything Apple did except to popularize the tablet in general (i.e. there are other tablets out there selling well now too; Apple does not live in a vacuum).
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 05:29 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by rjohnstone View Post
That would be somewhat incorrect.
The original MBA was a slow turd with crappy graphics. The only thing it had going for it was good looks.
Sigghhhhh..............oooookkk. One last try. Apple drops a turd (original MBA), polishes it (current MBA), everybody loves it, Intel creates "Ultrabook" standard, and polished turd sits at the top of the Ultrabook/Polished turd category. Happy?
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 05:31 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waa1futs View Post
Sorry to say but this category isn't going away anytime soon.

The main idea behind netbooks were devices that have:
1) Long battery life
2) Ultra-portable
3) Inexpensive

The Asus VivoTab RT has these exact qualities:
1) 16 hours of battery with detachable keyboard dock
2) 10 inch ultrabook portability
3) Only $300 total for tablet AND dock

Not to mention its beautiful SuperIPS+ display with 600 nits of brightness and being able to run Microsoft Office.
Umm. What you just described IS a different category. You posted about a tablet with a keyboard dock....not a netbook.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 05:32 PM   #62
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 05:33 PM   #63
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My god I've been away for a while from this place. Has it just turned in to one big circle jerk or what!? Fanboy doesn't even begin to describe this thread.

Netbooks are still being sold and are useful to many, many people. Believe it or not there people out there who need to actually do work and travel with a small laptop. They need fully fledged desktop applications (that may only run on windows), word processors and proper physical keyboards, not tablets, stripped back "apps" and touchscreen keyboards that half the size of an already small screen.

Price is also an issue for us all. The 11.6" air (which by many metrics all also classed as a netbook remember) is around £800, a lower spec (which is often sufficient) good netbook is around £250.

Apple don't need to provide a laptop at that price point as they have made it pretty clear they only target to top end but nether the less there is a market for this product for the travelling professional who doesn't want to (or can't) shell out on a MacBook air/MacBook pro.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 05:36 PM   #64
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Thank god! Netbooks were the most horrible, horrible things to use...
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 05:39 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
The Atom processors used in Netbooks are more powerful than the iPad's ARM processor for one. For another, Intel made a SoC to compete with the different ARM designs used in mobile phones and tablets, called it Medfield and guess what ? It was quite competitive with ARM SoCs released at the same time (Cortex A9s).

Intel knows the processor game more than a few folk around here think.
They do, but unfortunately, being merely competitive probably isn't enough to unseat ARM with more x86. ARM has been the target instruction set for years now in low-power, and you can't just walk in with x86 and expect folks to flock to you. Much like building PowerPC in the 90s didn't help any of the involved companies.

The public perception doesn't help much when Atom is used for chips that scale from smartphone level to low-power laptops (that run slowly). People hear "Atom" and think of those laptops and netbooks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
Tell me this. What exactly did Apple "invent" with the Macbook Air that hasn't been done before?

If you can answer this question, then you might have a point.
There's a good reason why innovation is a different word than invention. Invention may give us giant leaps and humble beginnings, but innovation is an important aspect of progress as well. Innovations like the iPad-style tablet, and the "Ultrabook" categories. Did Apple invent it? No, but Dell didn't invent computers either, but they are important to the industry as innovators in the space, even if it is primarily in the manufacturing and pipeline side of things.

The first person to even bring up "invent" or "invention" in this thread is you.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 05:41 PM   #66
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I remember when I first saw net books at a computer parts show what seems like AGES ago - I looked at them and thought wow, I will never be able to get one of those. Now I have two Samsung ones sitting under my bed gathering dust - oh how computers move quickly.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 05:45 PM   #67
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I think "PC software" is fine as long as it's not Microsoft or some nerdy Linux build. My 2006 MacBook is more portable than an iPad because it's so beaten-up that I don't have to worry about scratching it (plus I got it for free). An iPad, on the other hand, is too nice to take everywhere.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 05:47 PM   #68
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I just bought 2 Acer Aspire One Netbooks - and I like 'em

I needed something entry-level and inexpensive for my mother-in-law to do email, Skype the grandkids, and read the news. The iPads were too hard for her to type on with out adding an external keyboard and the iPad mini display was too small for her to read easily, so we were looking at at least $500-$600 for an Apple solution. I got the Acer at Target for $259 which included Windows 8, 2Gig RAM, 320Gig hard drive, etc. I'm a big Mac fan, but was impressed by how Mac-like Windows 8 was. After getting rid of the pre-installed bloatware, and configuring it, the device is pretty easy to use even for someone who has never had a computer before, and the performance is fine for light use. I was considering a Chromebook which looked even more attractive, but evidently you can't get Skype to work on them and I'm not going to try and get her whole family to switch to Google + hangouts.

In fact we were so happy with the result we bought another one for my wife to take when she goes on trips. It's half the weight of her MacBook (it's very similar to a MBA in size and weight) and much easier to write her documents with than her iPad mini with a keyboard-case. The thing is all plastic, so I don't know how it will hold up with occasional use, but dude it only cost $259 for the whole computer!

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Old Jan 3, 2013, 05:47 PM   #69
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Wow! No wonder I don't see many networks in stores anymore. Wow. Apple destroyed them. And now look what we have; something better!! Steve always amazed me!
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 05:47 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by fluidedge View Post
Netbooks are still being sold and are useful to many, many people.
Not enough to keep Acer and Asus interested in servicing that market though. Part of that is that once performance isn't a big issue you can just use an older/used netbook instead of a new one.

IMO this market will bifurcate. Some will go down to devices like the Nexus 7/kindle fire/ARM chromebook etc.. that are in the netbook price range others will move to the Surface Pro and other Intel Windows 8 slates like the Dell Latitude 10 which are far more price competitive to the 11.6" MBA.

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Old Jan 3, 2013, 05:54 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by kevinfulton.ca View Post
Sigghhhhh..............oooookkk. One last try. Apple drops a turd (original MBA), polishes it (current MBA), everybody loves it, Intel creates "Ultrabook" standard, and polished turd sits at the top of the Ultrabook/Polished turd category. Happy?
Again folks, the actual history starts with Sony. The original MBA was simply Apple's version of the Sony Vaio X505.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 05:57 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by fluidedge View Post
Netbooks are still being sold and are useful to many, many people. Believe it or not there people out there who need to actually do work and travel with a small laptop. They need fully fledged desktop applications (that may only run on windows), word processors and proper physical keyboards, not tablets, stripped back "apps" and touchscreen keyboards that half the size of an already small screen.
The Microsoft Surface provides all the functionality you're describing, and it doubles as a tablet.

Apple sold more iPad minis in a month than all the sold netbooks combined in a quarter. netbooks are deader than dead. Not fanboyish, just truth.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 06:02 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by levitynyc View Post
Remember when analysts kept wanting Apple to make a Netbook and Steve Jobs was like "We don't know how to make one that's not a piece of junk."
Nor did anyone else

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
The Atom processors used in Netbooks are more powerful than the iPad's ARM processor for one.
I doubt it.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 06:06 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
Tell me this. What exactly did Apple "invent" with the Macbook Air that hasn't been done before?

If you can answer this question, then you might have a point.
No competitor managed to really do the combination of design, thinness and performance before the 2nd gen MB Air. Sure Sony had a very thin X- whatever but it was very expensive and not made of the unibody aluminum etc and obviously sold far less.

Its subtle but simply being first to market with something does not give you customers because you can often get a lot right but a combination of a few things wrong and it all goes for naught.

Its like saying the smartphone was not Apple's innovation at all, but the good smart phone was. The difference between a Treo 750 or s Samsung Blackjack and the original iPhone was striking. It was after the iPhone that the smart phone industry started delivering iPhone like products.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 06:07 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
The Atom processors used in Netbooks are more powerful than the iPad's ARM processor for one. For another, Intel made a SoC to compete with the different ARM designs used in mobile phones and tablets, called it Medfield and guess what ? It was quite competitive with ARM SoCs released at the same time (Cortex A9s).

Intel knows the processor game more than a few folk around here think.
Just pair that x86 performance with a 5400 RPM hard drive and Windows XP/7...

Netbooks are still around, they are just not sold over here in the first world. The Chromebook is disturbingly popular too.

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I doubt it.
Can you prove it?
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