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Old Jan 3, 2013, 06:07 PM   #76
robeddie
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Originally Posted by sshambles View Post
Netbooks really are junk. Smallest MacBook Air reminds me of one of them, and it's just not needed in my opinion. 13" MacBook Air is lovely though. This had to happen eventually.
What an ignorant statement. The 11'" air is almost as powerful as your 13", but a whole lot more portable. And it's selling very well.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 06:07 PM   #77
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 06:11 PM   #78
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hahaha, the LAST thing I would state is Apple solely destroyed the Netbook market! More likely it was due to the TOTAL smartphone and tablet market, not incredibly expensive Apple Netbooks and tablets...

And they have moved onto Ultrabooks now anyway.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 06:11 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Imac&SoShouldU View Post
I just don't understand why there's so many Microsoft & android trolls on this site. I've been to android forums & I don't see any apple trolls...I don't mean to sound like a fanboy but...we are not like these idiots. Lol...don't feed the animals. Just leave them alone.
That's beause you think everyone who doesn't love Apple is an Android/Microsoft fanboy. The fact is there are tons of "neutral" people on here too.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 06:12 PM   #80
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Steve Jobs would never... oh crap nevermind.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 06:17 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
Tell me this. What exactly did Apple "invent" with the Macbook Air that hasn't been done before?

If you can answer this question, then you might have a point.
The problem with commenters nowadays is they think if you didn't invent anything, you haven't contributed anything. In the end, the Macbook Air is a portable laptop with a good keyboard, nice screen, a huge usable trackpad, and good battery life and didn't cost $3000 like the Sony ultralights. It also included things that Apple did pioneer like multitouch on trackpads, and backlit keyboards.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 06:20 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by HishamAkhtar View Post
Wow.

Apple literally KILLED a category.
By creating a new one
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 06:21 PM   #83
apolloa
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Originally Posted by kockgunner View Post
The problem with commenters nowadays is they think if you didn't invent anything, you haven't contributed anything. In the end, the Macbook Air is a portable laptop with a good keyboard, nice screen, a huge usable trackpad, and good battery life and didn't cost $3000 like the Sony ultralights. It also included things that Apple did pioneer like multitouch on trackpads, and backlit keyboards.
Wasn't it not till the third gen before they had backlit keyboards on the Air's?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Air's are not as powerful as people make out, sure they can do everything any other Mac can but a lot slower.. I remember testing online Quake on a 11" Air in a mac store once and still stuttered. Thankfully they've updated it since then.

13" Air is a nice compromise I think.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 06:25 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
Again folks, the actual history starts with Sony. The original MBA was simply Apple's version of the Sony Vaio X505.
Well sorta. As many have stated already, no one is claiming that Apple invented anything with the MBA, just that they "got it right". The x505, while certainly similar, was miles off the mark. Despite it's major price tag, it felt cheap, the display wasn't all that great and it was saddled with a trackpoint thingy and crumby keyboard. It looked majorly sexy, but the sex ended when you picked it up and started using it.

While the original MBA wasn't perfect by any stretch, it's unibody construction, good keyboard, very good 13.3" display, etc was a different story. I remember to this day the first time I picked one up. Contrary to the x505, the MBA "felt" great in your hand and you really felt like this was a "real" product vs a great looking compromise.

I've used both (x505 at work and MBA personally, well the wife's) and other than on paper, there really is no comparing the two.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 06:27 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by bitWrangler View Post
Well sorta. As many have stated already, no one is claiming that Apple invented anything with the MBA, just that they "got it right". The x505, while certainly similar, was miles off the mark. Despite it's major price tag, it felt cheap, the display wasn't all that great and it was saddled with a trackpoint thingy and crumby keyboard. It looked majorly sexy, but the sex ended when you picked it up and started using it.

While the original MBA wasn't perfect by any stretch, it's unibody construction, good keyboard, very good 13.3" display, etc was a different story. I remember to this day the first time I picked one up. Contrary to the x505, the MBA "felt" great in your hand and you really felt like this was a "real" product vs a great looking compromise.

I've used both (x505 at work and MBA personally, well the wife's) and other than on paper, there really is no comparing the two.

Hugely important points that you made better than I. Its not about inventing at all its about getting it right and selling millions.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 06:36 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by rjohnstone View Post
Oh really?
NetBooks were crap from day 1.
UltraBooks are full power in a light weight package.

What do you think the MacBook Air is? It's an UltraBook.
And they cost a small fortune if you want one with decent storage.
You don't get it. I said Windows notebook. You always pay premium for Mac no matter what. If someone was going to pay over 1k for Windows they will likely might as well get Macbook Air.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 06:37 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by kockgunner View Post
The problem with commenters nowadays is they think if you didn't invent anything, you haven't contributed anything. In the end, the Macbook Air is a portable laptop with a good keyboard, nice screen, a huge usable trackpad, and good battery life and didn't cost $3000 like the Sony ultralights. It also included things that Apple did pioneer like multitouch on trackpads, and backlit keyboards.
See, that's the thing. Apple wasn't anywhere near the first to invent the modern "ultrabook", but I will say they arguably set the modern standard with the MBA.

The biggest problem I have with some commenters is that they'll call anything that looks even remotely like an Apple product a cheap knockoff regardless of what it adds or refines to their original design. For them, Apple making an inspirational product isn't kosher because, apparently, inspiration isn't allowed. No one can "copy" anything they've done, regardless of how much Apple copied themselves in order to create their revolutionary, industry redefining blah blah blah ect. ect.

Basically, I think the "X copied" argument is the lamest, stupidest, and most short sighted argument anyone can come up with around here. It's the one thing I'll rally against without fail whenever it comes up.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 06:42 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by kevinfulton.ca View Post
Fair enough. Intel creates the category that Apple was leading before said category was even created. How's that?
I guess it all depends on how you look at it.

I believe it was Apple who encouraged and worked with Intel to shrink the die size and power consumption of the Intel Core 2 Duo for use in the original MacBook Air.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 06:52 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Peace View Post
Kinda like samsung eh ?

Image
Wait, samedung does original research. If samedung products end up looking like apple's (including the upper right power button) is only because of convergence of design.... A year or two after apple's products have proven the viability of such original design.

And if there is any doubt, very smart judges in courts all over the world are proving this to be true.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 07:00 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
The Atom processors used in Netbooks are more powerful than the iPad's ARM processor for one. For another, Intel made a SoC to compete with the different ARM designs used in mobile phones and tablets, called it Medfield and guess what ? It was quite competitive with ARM SoCs released at the same time (Cortex A9s).

Intel knows the processor game more than a few folk around here think.
My ipad 3 can stream full hd video despite being a less powerfull processor which most netbooks couldnt. Its the combination on the cpu, gpu and os which made the netbooks suck. The ipad can do some tasks alot better than even android tablets with "more powerful processors"

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Originally Posted by MagnusVonMagnum View Post
I still think Netbooks are better than iPads. My Dell netbook hacked to run OSX lets me run the software I want to run (e.g. Firefox) that Apple won't let me run plus it has more ram, disk space and a full keyboard and mouse and cost 1/2 of what an iPad costs. I can run full versions of Microsoft Office and even Photoshop if I need to. I see zero advantage to an iPad over that other than perhaps specific Apps that were never ported over to OSX from iOS versions (i.e. a limitation of software incompatibility, not an advantage of the iPad itself per se, which really is just a touch-screen hardware limited platform with limited software). Of course, I'm only trying to do so much with it and I only expect so much with it for only $280. Even so, I can run software no iPad on Earth can run and much of it runs reasonably well, especially for the price. I can take that Netbook on vacation without worrying about dropping it or it getting stolen like I would a $2k MBP.

The reason the "experience" is touted as better on an iPad by many people is the same reason gaming is touted as better by people who have Playstations. The software is created only for that platform and this leads to software that run WELL on that limited platform as opposed to desktop software that really expected more power to run right.

In other words, ultimately, the primary reason a Netbook "sucks" is that it's trying to run software that was designed for faster computers and so it feels "slow" while the iPad runs software that was designed to run on its limited power and so it feels "faster" when in reality, it's more of an illusion of power.

However, that is changing with newer iPads leaving older ones in the dust and unsupported, which I think will eventually start working against Apple in the long run since this is the very reason that video game consoles have such a LONG life-cycle; people want software that WORKS RIGHT on their system for a reasonable length of time and 1-year isn't very reasonable, IMO and yet that may be what it comes to, especially for things like games on iOS devices where we're already seeing games that take advantage of the current generation now working at all with the previous one; look at the Karateka thread for iPod 5G to see what I mean; the 4G sold just 6 months ago can't run it).

And while I like the iPod touch and iPhone because they fit in my pocket, an iPad takes up nearly as much room in a bag as a Netbook so they offer little advantage for portability. Windows8 tablets will double as Notebooks/Netbooks in addition to acting like tablets, so in some respects, I think that may have more to do with the death of the Netbook (which was never offered for OSX to begin with) than anything Apple did except to popularize the tablet in general (i.e. there are other tablets out there selling well now too; Apple does not live in a vacuum).
Good luck running photoshop on your netbook.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 07:00 PM   #91
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No competitor managed to really do the combination of design, thinness and performance before the 2nd gen MB Air. Sure Sony had a very thin X- whatever but it was very expensive and not made of the unibody aluminum etc and obviously sold far less.

Its subtle but simply being first to market with something does not give you customers because you can often get a lot right but a combination of a few things wrong and it all goes for naught.

Its like saying the smartphone was not Apple's innovation at all, but the good smart phone was. The difference between a Treo 750 or s Samsung Blackjack and the original iPhone was striking. It was after the iPhone that the smart phone industry started delivering iPhone like products.
Even the sony wasn't the only thing that was out prior to the air. There was the toshiba portege, lenovo x series, even the sony z series. Thin and Light laptops were absolutely nothing new. In fact many of these models actually weighed less than the macbook air. Almost every manufacturer has had a thin and light line of computers since the 90's.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 07:01 PM   #92
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And if there is any doubt, very smart judges in courts all over the world are proving this to be true.
Actually, quite the opposite. Apple's one win against Samsung has been their biggest, and practically only true victory to date. And even that's being slowly taken away from them.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 07:01 PM   #93
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Wait, samedung does original research. If samedung products end up looking like apple's (including the upper right power button) is only because of convergence of design.... A year or two after apple's products have proven the viability of such original design.

And if there is any doubt, very smart judges in courts all over the world are proving this to be true.
Your do realize that location of power buttons theres only like 2 or 3 places you can put them. Top left, top right, and the less common on the side or front of the laptop which quite frankly is a crappy spot.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 07:02 PM   #94
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Good riddance.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 07:02 PM   #95
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Must be a slow news day. This would have surprised people 3 years back.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 07:06 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by apolloa View Post
hahaha, the LAST thing I would state is Apple solely destroyed the Netbook market! More likely it was due to the TOTAL smartphone and tablet market, not incredibly expensive Apple Netbooks and tablets...

And they have moved onto Ultrabooks now anyway.
Don't be a revisionist. The iPad was deemed to be "very cheap" when it debuted in 2010.

----------

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Originally Posted by i.mac View Post
Wait, samedung does original research. If samedung products end up looking like apple's (including the upper right power button) is only because of convergence of design.... A year or two after apple's products have proven the viability of such original design.

And if there is any doubt, very smart judges in courts all over the world are proving this to be true.
It just SO OBVIOUS that a phone has to be done in that (Apple) way! Apple is not the original! They did not invent! They copied! Researcher in AYSXZ@ Labs thought of that in 1950s and made zero of that phone! LOL /s
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 07:10 PM   #97
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It just SO OBVIOUS that a phone has to be done in that (Apple) way! Apple is not the original! They did not invent! They copied! Researcher in AYSXZ@ Labs thought of that in 1950s and made zero of that phone! LOL /s
A phone that's one big touch screen isn't exactly a huge leap of innovation and science. Like no one would've thought to do that if Apple didn't come along and show them.

...which they didn't even have to do that. The Prada came out at about the same time.

You know, I sometimes wonder why I even bother. I'm arguing with a bunch of people who'll say "a wireless radio that can transmit data over 30 miles without any signal loss? That's baby stuff! NOW AN ONSCREEN KEYBOARD AND BOUNCE BACK? THAT'S INNOVATION"! It's like you all revel in your ignorance or something.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 07:26 PM   #98
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Well sorta. As many have stated already, no one is claiming that Apple invented anything with the MBA, just that they "got it right". The x505, while certainly similar, was miles off the mark. Despite it's major price tag, it felt cheap, the display wasn't all that great and it was saddled with a trackpoint thingy and crumby keyboard. It looked majorly sexy, but the sex ended when you picked it up and started using it.
Sounds like the MBA rev. A. Over heating, very poor performance, etc..

Was it... wait no... it can't be that technology wasn't quite advanced enough back then ? Somethings just need humanity to reach a certain level in tech. Ultrabooks become good when the technology to make them good became available.

Still doesn't change the history behind the category. The Vaio X505 predates the MacBook Air. Both were equally as crappy. The MacBook Air stopped sucking around rev. D (incidently, that's the revision I owned. It was just perfect).

----------

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My ipad 3 can stream full hd video despite being a less powerfull processor which most netbooks couldnt. Its the combination on the cpu, gpu and os which made the netbooks suck. The ipad can do some tasks alot better than even android tablets with "more powerful processors"
Sounds more like an OS problem than a hardware problem then doesn't it ?

The Atom processors are still more powerful than the ARM processors. The Medfield Atom SoC though is quite on par with ARM SoCs of its time, in both performance and power consumption.

There is no magic guys. Power consumption or Performance. Can't have both until technology moves forward. The Atoms draw more power but perform more instructions per second. But if Intel wants to make them have the same power draw, they can, albeit, with the same lower performance levels.

ARM isn't magic. Chip design has very little to do with instruction sets actually and people often mix up both too much. ARM is just an instruction set, it doesn't make things power efficient on its own. That's chip design.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 07:30 PM   #99
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Don't be a revisionist. The iPad was deemed to be "very cheap" when it debuted in 2010.
I keep on hearing this but I have never found the iPad to be cheap considering it is the price of a full PC! Its only cheap in the eyes of its fans. The iPad is reasonable at best price wise.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 07:37 PM   #100
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I managed to avoid buying a netbook, but people such as my Dad love them. He wants a Chromebook now.

I'm enjoying the ride technology is providing for us all.
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