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Old Jan 3, 2013, 07:44 PM   #101
samcraig
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I'll be a dissenting opinion. While many people who bought netbooks could really benefit better from an iPad and/or spending much more money on a MacBook Air - there are many (at least 5 or 6 people off hand) that I know that loved their netbook. Why? Because they had long train commutes and wanted to work "on the go" without having to drag their very heavy laptop back and forth. They wanted to have a place to plug in their USB keys. To use Microsoft Office. They didn't want to spend a lot of money. And they wanted a keyboard.

When the iPad came out (and even today) - it's not very usable for these people. Maybe now with Microsoft introducing Office for the iPad it might me (although it's still TBD if it will transfer files back and forth without losing formatting/etc). And for many - typing on the iPad isn't a pleasurable experience for long documents.

So for some - the iPad is still out. That leaves the MacBook Air. Great small and light device. Does everything you could want it. But. Cost - $999. Not exactly a "cheap" option for some.

So yes. Netbooks served and serve a purpose. Now these people I know (if their netbooks should die - or whatnot - will need to either spend a lot of money to achieve the same result and/or they will have to buy a very cheap/inexpensive laptop. Which, by most accounts, make the same sacrifices as netbooks.

I agree that netbooks in and of itself isn't a "different" category. But it was and still is a good alternative for many people.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 07:47 PM   #102
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^ Exactly. My Pop used his for booking flights on the go, which is why I ended up buying a new MacBook Pro, with the added benefit of being able to do serious work while on trips. I needed more than just a netbook, and more than an iPad, so if all I wanted was light work and web access, I'd have looked at buying a netbook myself. My needs were just beyond that level.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 07:52 PM   #103
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All crap anyway, I told my friends who have them not to bother me about helping them, they all stink. I am in IT and I find them difficult to reload, install anything on, they are slow, low ram, small hdd, and their keyboards and tracking points are horrible.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 07:59 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Wicked1 View Post
All crap anyway, I told my friends who have them not to bother me about helping them, they all stink. I am in IT and I find them difficult to reload, install anything on, they are slow, low ram, small hdd, and their keyboards and tracking points are horrible.
Not everyone needs speed (if you're using word or excel primarily). Not everyone needs installing anything beyond the initial set up.

I get what you're saying. But they do serve a purpose.

It will be interesting to see how these chromebooks do. And whether or not Google will shift from ChromeOS to Android in what would basically be an inexpensive tablet with a built in keyboard.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 08:06 PM   #105
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Actually I find that the 11" MacBook Air is really just a better designed, better built, more powerful and more expensive Netbook!
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 08:10 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
Not everyone needs speed (if you're using word or excel primarily). Not everyone needs installing anything beyond the initial set up.

I get what you're saying. But they do serve a purpose.

It will be interesting to see how these chromebooks do. And whether or not Google will shift from ChromeOS to Android in what would basically be an inexpensive tablet with a built in keyboard.
I am actually surprised that Google has not made an Android OS specifically to compete with Windows and Mac OS. ChromeOS could be modified to do this, but if it had the feel of Android on a desktop, they would at least give Windows a run for the money, Apple really does not need to worry about that anyway.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 08:12 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by mrr View Post
Actually I find that the 11" MacBook Air is really just a better designed, better built, more powerful and more expensive Netbook!
A Ferrari is also just a better designed, better built, more powerful and more expensive, and faster Toyota.

What's your point?
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 08:20 PM   #108
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As far as I can see, Macbook Air display is crappy by itself. Definitely only on par with the old iPod Touch and low quality compared with MBP, even further difference with iPhone, iPad, and iMac/Thunderbolt Display.
For a $1000 computer, I certainly wish for more.

Like it or not, MBA is the iNetBook.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 08:25 PM   #109
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A pro-Netbook, non-Steve Jobs fanboi rant.

Thankfully I can think for myself, I don't fancy other men either so I'm not in the queue to give Steve Jobs a post-humous blow-job.

I've had a netbook for quite a while. An Asus 1005HA. I spec'd it so I could install Mac OS on it. It runs really well. It's great for using lying on the bed, you can put it on it's side and read comfortably with your head on the pillow; you can prop the netbook from falling over with another pillow. The keyboard and trackpad make cursor movement a so-called 'breeze' (for want of better grammar at this time of (mid)night. I can't see an iPad being so great for that, you'd have to exert a huge amount of force with your hand/wrist to keep it lined up and the other hand to swipe the screen around, I imagine it'd be a pain.

I also use it whilst eating in kitchen at the table, for when I need 2 comps together side by side with my iMac and believe it or not on the toilet hahaha. I can shut the lid to protect it whenever necessary, and it has rubber feet so I imagine usability is superior to iPad in these respects, where you'd have to lean the iPad against the wall where it might slip and get trodden on, or at least fall over. Wherever you use an iPad I imagine the main priority is getting the screen angle supported and sturdy enough to do the touch stuff, with a netbook there's none of that hassle.

You can lie flat on your back with a netbook, put it on your belly and put the screen up so you can read with just a pillow to angle your your head a bit. With an iPad you'd have to put your knees up or strain your hand/wrist to keep it in place, then fart about swiping and prodding with the other hand.

So all-in-all my netbook running SL is great. Everything works and it's super convenient. No need to learn how to manipulate an on-screen keyboard. No need to strain myself propping it up. It's small, light and really convenient. Durable and the screen is easily protected by shutting the lid. In my opinion it's far better than an iPad, which is just an over-sized iPod touch, another item I wouldn't shake a stick at, nor touch with a 10 foot barge pole. Thankfully I have a mind of my own and if someone turns up and starts telling me I 'need' something that I plainly don't, I won't be mugged into believing them, just because he's (apparantly) "cool". OK some people may have a bit of talent and a few good ideas now and then, but everything's temporary. Even buddhists die.

Netbooks were far cheaper than iPads or Macbook Airs. Obviously Apple and/or Jobs was scared or wary of them, that's why soon as they/he realised people were installing Mac OS on them, they did a back-hander with Intel to stop production of the Atom processors that'd run Mac OS and had them bring out new updated versions with built in graphics chips that were non-conformatory, along with having manufacturers put other non-conformatory components in like Wifi cards, SD slots, Network chips, etc. that they/he knew there were no Apple drivers for, thus crippling that niche hack market. Also they had Intel limit the Atom to 32-bit and quickly upgraded Mac OS to 64-bit only, another behind-the-scenes step to silently nobble the opposition.

Yes, in public Jobs came out with his smart-alec one-liners 'dissing' netbooks, but the reality was (according to my line of reasoning) that he saw them as a threat and did all he could to kill the hacking of them off. Of course, a netbook running Windows, well, we all know that anybody worth his salt in this world would never even consider that option, it's beyond the borders of this thread too so let's stop there, OK. Anyone wanna add to that? Oh, just leave netbooks alone will ya, if you ain't got one then that's just your tough luck!

Last edited by vkd; Jan 3, 2013 at 08:30 PM.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 08:28 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iSayuSay View Post
As far as I can see, Macbook Air display is crappy by itself. Definitely only on par with the old iPod Touch and low quality compared with MBP, even further difference with iPhone, iPad, and iMac/Thunderbolt Display.
For a $1000 computer, I certainly wish for more.

Like it or not, MBA is the iNetBook.
1. The non-retina MacBook Pro has a lower PPI than the MacBook Air 13"
2. Both non-retina MacBook Pro and the MacBook Air uses non-IPS (probably TN panel), and the non-retina Macbook Pro has a thick glass over the display producing a lot of glare.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by vkd View Post
Thankfully I can think for myself, I don't fancy other men either so I'm not in the queue to give Steve Jobs a post-humous blow-job.

I've had a netbook for quite a while. An Asus 1005HA. I spec'd it so I could install Mac OS on it. It runs really well. (message too long)

You hacked your netbook to run Mac OS X.

Then that's what a netbook at it's sold!
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 08:49 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haruhiko View Post
1. The non-retina MacBook Pro has a lower PPI than the MacBook Air 13"
2. Both non-retina MacBook Pro and the MacBook Air uses non-IPS (probably TN panel), and the non-retina Macbook Pro has a thick glass over the display producing a lot of glare.[COLOR="#808080"]
1. PPI is not the only things matter which determines a display quality. Maybe Apple takes Retina gimmick too far just like Mega Pixels war. Just like a 106ppi 27" iMac display is much better than 163ppi on iPhone 3GS.

2. I see color accuracy and viewing angles is still better on cMBP regardless of they're both still using TN panel.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 08:51 PM   #112
haruhiko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iSayuSay View Post
1. PPI is not the only things matter which determines a display quality. Maybe Apple takes Retina gimmick too far just like Mega Pixels war. Just like a 106ppi 27" iMac display is much better than 163ppi on iPhone 3GS.

2. I see color accuracy and viewing angles is still better on cMBP regardless of they're both still using TN panel.
The 27" iMac display uses an IPS panel. Of course it's better than the non-IPS iPhone 3GS
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 08:55 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
Again folks, the actual history starts with Sony. The original MBA was simply Apple's version of the Sony Vaio X505.
Don't even try. One or two folks may read your comment but more and more will forever chime in and revise history, and spout drivel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus-k View Post
That's beause you think everyone who doesn't love Apple is an Android/Microsoft fanboy. The fact is there are tons of "neutral" people on here too.
AGREED! I've been trying to get posters to realize that Mac lovers with facts to back up their claims, or just simple opinions, do exist and may not love everything Apple does as a company.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
You know, I sometimes wonder why I even bother. I'm arguing with a bunch of people who'll say "a wireless radio that can transmit data over 30 miles without any signal loss? That's baby stuff! NOW AN ONSCREEN KEYBOARD AND BOUNCE BACK? THAT'S INNOVATION"! It's like you all revel in your ignorance or something.
Trust me, stop trying. I've long since given up on these forums.

Basically, as long as Apple has a product in that category, everyone else copied and no one innovates but Apple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrr View Post
Actually I find that the 11" MacBook Air is really just a better designed, better built, more powerful and more expensive Netbook!
It is, 100% is.

Frankly this article is total bull ****. Netbooks where a fad on their way out long before Jobs mentioned anything. Well versed tech users saw the death of the Netbook years prior and saw the ultra book horizon approaching before it even had a name. In both cases it was another company with another product spearheading the charge, or just a shift in the market.

Apple isn't, never was and shouldn't be the end all be all. Great products, great software, great services, but the competition others provide is good, fierce and very much welcomed.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 08:59 PM   #114
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good riddance I hated people complaining to me how slow their so called "new" laptop is
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 09:01 PM   #115
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Now if I could justfind that article from three years ago where some numpty swore netbooks would become the dominate portable gaming platform. Seriously! And this was well into the rise of gaming on the iPhone.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 09:06 PM   #116
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Intel didn't invent the ultrabook category before 2011

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Originally Posted by rjohnstone View Post
Intel created the category, not Apple.
Apple was the first to release a product in the category.
First MBA was shown Jan 15, 2008. Intel introduced ultrabooks at CES in 2011.

According to Wikipedia.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 09:10 PM   #117
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Oh really?
NetBooks were crap from day 1.
UltraBooks are full power in a light weight package.

What do you think the MacBook Air is? It's an UltraBook.
And they cost a small fortune if you want one with decent storage.
The MacBook Air was around YEARS before the Ultrabook was even a thought. I don't consider the MBA an Ultrabook at all, it's in its own category.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 09:21 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by MMOTotal View Post
Hey look, Steve was right.... again
and now he's dead.

I never really liked the netbooks because they didn't do anything I needed that my full sized LT couldn't do. It could however do more than an iPad when it came to computing. Most used it to surf the web and do fb updates so not a huge loss for condumers IMHO.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 09:25 PM   #119
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http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-575...ptops-tablets/

Ivy Bridge performance in 7-10W envelope. Forget Atom, go with the Intel Y Series with a limited run for Ivy Bridge and then onward to Haswell.

Thumb resize.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 09:27 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by sshambles View Post
Netbooks really are junk. Smallest MacBook Air reminds me of one of them, and it's just not needed in my opinion. 13" MacBook Air is lovely though. This had to happen eventually.
I used an 11.6" MacBook Air for over 2 years. Comparing it in any way to a netbook is an insult. The Air uses a true notebook processor (even the Core 2 Duo runs circles around any Atom), has a full sized keyboard, a real trackpad, and 1366x768 screen.

$199 netbooks also tended to be thick bricks.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 09:33 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by Digital Skunk View Post
Trust me, stop trying. I've long since given up on these forums.

Basically, as long as Apple has a product in that category, everyone else copied and no one innovates but Apple.
Pretty much. I've almost got it figured out now. They'll come in, say "Apple did X first, everyone else copied". When you prove them wrong, they'll fire back with "Well...yeah...but, that sucked. Apple might not have invented it, but they were the first to do it right". Then it becomes a cyclical argument you can't win because they'll keep repeating the same things over and over again.

Now sometimes it's cool to come in here and argue. Every once in awhile you'll run across someone with an informed opinion you don't totally agree with, and you'll end up having a nice discussion. Unfortunately, that's relatively rare. Most of the time it's the same blah copy blah innovate blah blah blah over and over again.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisTX View Post
The MacBook Air was around YEARS before the Ultrabook was even a thought. I don't consider the MBA an Ultrabook at all, it's in its own category.
I bet you spent all of 2 minutes googling up that info. Pat yourself on the back for a job well done.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 09:36 PM   #122
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The release of the iPad mini was esentially the death knell of netbooks.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 09:46 PM   #123
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Steve is smiling somewhere.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 10:06 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by Eidorian View Post
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-575...ptops-tablets/

Ivy Bridge performance in 7-10W envelope. Forget Atom, go with the Intel Y Series with a limited run for Ivy Bridge and then onward to Haswell.

Thumb resize.
I'm fairly impressed with those numbers. Looks like Haswell is going to nuke what's left of atom.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 10:41 PM   #125
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This is Apple's true strength. They don't cave into analysts or "market share" reports. If they create something, they make it the best all-around device, not just a specs pusher.
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