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Old Jan 16, 2013, 05:23 AM   #26
prutz111
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For me it is a question of philosophy. Apple's core philosophy is most efficient at the moment of a paradigm shift, but gets less efficient the further we move away from it. As mobile is reaching maturity the need for strict curation is no longer as strong, and perhaps it's also true that it stifles innovation. Apple simply is not the kind of company that is going to produce all the crap that a samsung is willing to try, so there is inherently less innovation going on.

The other big issue is just a numbers one, as android continues to over take apple, other companies are going to start shifting development to an android first strategy. It will be an accounting decision and nothing more. What this means is the innovations that are not directly apple's, but which happen within the apple ecosystem, are going to be moving to another place.

If I were apple, I would be focusing on getting as open as possible. I'd start by licensing iOS to players like HTC and allowing them to have the bottom of the market. This way apple could protect their ecosystem from getting undercut. I would also allow for two classes of apps in the app store, verified and unverified, so that any innovation going on in the jailbroken community could be brought into the mainstream faster.

My worry for Apple is that we are slowly moving toward a world of ubiquitous computing. When You look at the cutting edge of consumer technology you see things like hue lights, nest thermostats, wiithings scales, nike fuel and the basis bands and such. This trend does not play to Apple's traditional strengths. The OS of the future is going to have to function as a conductor for all of these little connected devices.

Well that got a little rambling, but You get the idea

Last edited by prutz111; Jan 16, 2013 at 05:25 AM. Reason: order was bad.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 05:46 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by prutz111 View Post
For me it is a question of philosophy. Apple's core philosophy is most efficient at the moment of a paradigm shift, but gets less efficient the further we move away from it. As mobile is reaching maturity the need for strict curation is no longer as strong, and perhaps it's also true that it stifles innovation. Apple simply is not the kind of company that is going to produce all the crap that a samsung is willing to try, so there is inherently less innovation going on.

The other big issue is just a numbers one, as android continues to over take apple, other companies are going to start shifting development to an android first strategy. It will be an accounting decision and nothing more. What this means is the innovations that are not directly apple's, but which happen within the apple ecosystem, are going to be moving to another place.

If I were apple, I would be focusing on getting as open as possible. I'd start by licensing iOS to players like HTC and allowing them to have the bottom of the market. This way apple could protect their ecosystem from getting undercut. I would also allow for two classes of apps in the app store, verified and unverified, so that any innovation going on in the jailbroken community could be brought into the mainstream faster.

My worry for Apple is that we are slowly moving toward a world of ubiquitous computing. When You look at the cutting edge of consumer technology you see things like hue lights, nest thermostats, wiithings scales, nike fuel and the basis bands and such. This trend does not play to Apple's traditional strengths. The OS of the future is going to have to function as a conductor for all of these little connected devices.

Well that got a little rambling, but You get the idea
This is were you lost me and I was nodding with agreement up until then.

Apple will never and should never license out their software. iOS and OSX (yeah i'm lumping in OSX to make a point) should stay within Apple.

The OS needs to run smooth and that's why Apple need to control that. I'm sure android is great but stick it on the low end models and its pants.

What Apple need to do, which is going to be hard, is stay focused on what they are trying to achieve at Apple. Don't worry that Android Market share is growing. It was inevitable. You can get most Andorid phones free with a toaster or whatever so Apple was never going to hold onto the lead.

Stay working on integration with their existing product line. I love how my iPhone syncs with my Mac, iPad and Apple TV. Its for this reason I will never move away from iPhone.

Too many people are concerned about how the iPhone compares to other mobiles but should be concerned by how Apple will progress with their own integration.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 06:10 AM   #28
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This is were you lost me and I was nodding with agreement up until then.
Haha, I'll agree that I lost myself a bit on that one, but I just don't see how to protect the ecosystem without some change toward openness. So redact that part, but I'm keeping my theory that they should allow unverified applications. If they did they would increase the incentive to be innovative inside the iOS ecosystem.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 06:16 AM   #29
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I have the same view as Apple, if you don't like the product don't buy it I get fed up people constantly moaning about it

There are some things Apple do that annoy me but most of those things are business fueled & at the end of the day they are a business.

I have used Apple products for 15 years & will probably continue to do so for another 15
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 06:50 AM   #30
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I have the same view as Apple, if you don't like the product don't buy it I get fed up people constantly moaning about it
LOL, Than why are you in a forum! I do know what You mean, but as a fan of the future, it's one of those transitional times where its fun to get a bit meta. I just find myself thinking... is history really repeating itself here, or is there a path outta here to break the cycle.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 07:19 AM   #31
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i dont think so that apple is loosing there way..
If Apple is waiting while there competitors are providing various facility over technology he will come-up with some shocking tech thing so that i believe about Apple. Apples market will never change.
They simply got lazy. The iPhone was so successful, they practically shifted their serious attention away from the Mac, and are now to afraid to mess with the original formula of the iPhone.

And their software devs have gotten real lazy as well after Snow Leopard's success. They realized they didn't need to reintroduce features (Time Machine) just make some enhancements and call it 200+ features. Lion came out, and they also started taking out some of the quirkiness of Mac OS X, now just called OS X. They got rid of the aqua scroll bars, iCal is now Calendar, etc. (No more intro video either!)

On top of it all, they are recycling the stale features of iOS into OS X.

At the VERY least, OS X is still not as big of a fragmented mess as Windows 8.

And now to rationalize it,

I like the new dictionary function, where it doesn't have to open up the app to give me a definition. Heck, windows doesn't even have a dictionary. I couldn't imagine doing school work on a Windows machine!
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 07:40 AM   #32
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Stay working on integration with their existing product line. I love how my iPhone syncs with my Mac, iPad and Apple TV. Its for this reason I will never move away from iPhone.

Too many people are concerned about how the iPhone compares to other mobiles but should be concerned by how Apple will progress with their own integration.
I fully agree that apple's integration is key, but if there focus on integration is only from within, than it is a problem moving forward. The innovation in tech now seems to be coming from the modernization of older technology in the form of home automation and health related wearables. Both of the innovation spots share the fact that they are a cluster of devices. For the home let's say the cluster would be something like light bulbs, smoke detector, thermostat, and stove, or for health we are talking a scale, blood pressure monitor, fitbit). All of these are kind of individual apps in the current version of technology, but they really would work much better as an integrated piece of a larger whole. No one of those companies can achieve that goal on their own, so as I say, I view the role of the future OS as being that larger whole, as a conductor, or integrator of ubiquity.

So yes, I think integration is the key, but I think that the trick for apple is to include other classes of products into that integration.

Coming back to the original theme, it is a matter apple's philosophy and whether it can be applied successfully to the coming paridigm shift toward ubiquity. As I view this shift, it's not a lone wolf defining what the technology is, as much as it is a conductor making sure every instrument works together to create a satisfying whole... or something like that.

Too much time today.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 07:55 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by prutz111 View Post
I fully agree that apple's integration is key, but if there focus on integration is only from within, than it is a problem moving forward. The innovation in tech now seems to be coming from the modernization of older technology in the form of home automation and health related wearables. Both of the innovation spots share the fact that they are a cluster of devices. For the home let's say the cluster would be something like light bulbs, smoke detector, thermostat, and stove, or for health we are talking a scale, blood pressure monitor, fitbit). All of these are kind of individual apps in the current version of technology, but they really would work much better as an integrated piece of a larger whole. No one of those companies can achieve that goal on their own, so as I say, I view the role of the future OS as being that larger whole, as a conductor, or integrator of ubiquity.

So yes, I think integration is the key, but I think that the trick for apple is to include other classes of products into that integration.

Coming back to the original theme, it is a matter apple's philosophy and whether it can be applied successfully to the coming paridigm shift toward ubiquity. As I view this shift, it's not a lone wolf defining what the technology is, as much as it is a conductor making sure every instrument works together to create a satisfying whole... or something like that.

Too much time today.
We've seen with the Phillips light bulbs that they can integrate with other companies. But by no means do they need to license out their OS. That would be a disaster.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 04:53 PM   #34
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I think in a way they have.

They've drifted away from the desktop/laptop market in a way trying to lure in the iDevice users who only came to Apple because of said iDevices. And they focus more on iDevices than computers I'd say. But in a way who can blame them, iPods and now iPhones and iPads have made them millions upon millions in easy cash flow so who would want to mess with that?

But on the other hand their products work less and less for me as time goes on. They seem to be moving towards the closed ecosystem others speak of, integrating it all. You get the "best features and benefits" if you're using all Apple products together. You're only getting part of the experience if you only own some of the components. And this is glaringly true in Apple's laptops and desktops these days.

I need productive devices I can tweak and work with for my needs as they change. I have an older Macbook Pro but the newer OS X is even more rigid than previous versions. I tried iPhone and realized it's workflow and design did not work well for my needs. They're excluding some users while bringing in new users.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 05:49 PM   #35
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I have just come from a meeting with some of my students. I was there with my Iphone and Mac Air, five of the students we laptop/tablets, and three had Galaxy Note 2's (the new must have device on campus)
and they had no problems doing what the rest of us were doing on laptops and full sized tablets.

To me the Note 2 seems to be a genuine advance in mobile technology, an easy to carry device that does the lot. To do what it does, I would need a couple of Apple devices.

Being Android it also has access to genuinely useful bibliography apps that are not available on IOS, and won't be because the developers say it is to much like hard work to get them into the app store. Which seems to be an increasing phenomenon with apps that have a relatively small audience.

To me Apple is closing off its system, and as a consequence beginning to atrophy?
Why do you care ? If something else works better for you, buy it. Apple is just another business so it will go through cycles. The only reason I see for being concerned about Apple is if you are a shareholder or if you are shorting the stock and trying to drive it down.

As an educator, don't you think that there are more important issues than worrying about the bottom line of a company (i.e. the terrible state of the education system, etc) ?
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Old Aug 26, 2014, 08:10 PM   #36
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… To me Apple is closing off its system, and as a consequence beginning to atrophy?
Was Apple losing its way in mid-2013? I don't know.

In mid-2014? Yes, I think so.

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Originally Posted by maflynn View Post
… Apple needs to keep innovating but also be mindful of its customer base. A very difficult balancing act imo. …
My overall impressions of development of the interface to Yosemite are: a crazy excess of change for the sake of change (not innovation); no longer a single, shared vision of OS X; abandonment of some of the essential human interface guidelines (HIG); not suitably mindful of customer requirements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prutz111 View Post
… If I were apple, I would be focusing on getting as open as possible. …
From the mashed-up appearance of Yosemite, I get the impression that Apple's approach is closed-minded.
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Old Aug 27, 2014, 05:46 AM   #37
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Just get a Samsung Note Galaxy device then.
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Old Aug 27, 2014, 05:47 AM   #38
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Just get a Samsung Note Galaxy devide then.
Many people have, in fact it was because of the Note that we'll be seeing a larger iPhone. Apple seems more reactive lately then proactive.
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Old Aug 27, 2014, 05:50 AM   #39
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Many people have, in fact it was because of the Note that we'll be seeing a larger iPhone. Apple seems more reactive lately then proactive.
It is what it is. I am glad I got the iPhone 5c because I can't stand phones that are any bigger.

But if people buy them ...
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Old Aug 27, 2014, 05:55 AM   #40
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It is what it is. I am glad I got the iPhone 5c because I can't stand phones that are any bigger.

But if people buy them ...
I love my 5C, but I am waiting for a larger iPhone. I like larger phones and Apple is long over due for one.

Instead of trying to protect their market share perhaps they should be looking to push the envelope like they used too.
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Old Aug 27, 2014, 05:56 AM   #41
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I love my 5C, but I am waiting for a larger iPhone. I like larger phones and Apple is long over due for one.

Instead of trying to protect their market share perhaps they should be looking to push the envelope like they used too.
I just hope they continue to sell small phones for people like me who use their phone 90% as a telephone.
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Old Aug 27, 2014, 06:13 AM   #42
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I just hope they continue to sell small phones for people like me who use their phone 90% as a telephone.
You're missing my point, its not that they're about to release a larger phone, but rather they're following Samsung on design. They should be proactive in design and features.

Wireless charging, NFC larger form factors, better multitasking, these are all features already in place with competitors. Apple should be leading not following.
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Old Aug 27, 2014, 06:35 AM   #43
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I'll try to hit it on the nail with what is deeply wrong with Apple's philosophy:

Apple thinks that it can make its computers/OS designed for a target market, and can get away with ignoring other segments.

We hear this in platitudes such as "we can't please everyone, we just focus on making great products ... "
Yep yep.

Apple, even when Jobs was still around, made it clear that they only want to focus on a few good well-made well-designed products, rather than create and sell a slew of rush-job (mediocre) products (i.e. Samsung).

Apple doesn't want to be a jack of all trades company. It would rather be a Master of Few, rather than be Jack of All Products.
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Old Aug 27, 2014, 06:36 AM   #44
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The apostrophe in the title is distracting from the point that you unsuccessfully tried to make.
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Old Aug 27, 2014, 07:36 AM   #45
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You're missing my point, its not that they're about to release a larger phone, but rather they're following Samsung on design. They should be proactive in design and features.

Wireless charging, NFC larger form factors, better multitasking, these are all features already in place with competitors. Apple should be leading not following.
i agree. The samsung design is beyond terrible. I wish they'd make the new ip like the 5c. Best design so far.
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Old Aug 27, 2014, 02:18 PM   #46
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You're missing my point, its not that they're about to release a larger phone, but rather they're following Samsung on design. They should be proactive in design and features.

Wireless charging, NFC larger form factors, better multitasking, these are all features already in place with competitors. Apple should be leading not following.
I agree Apple should lead, but trying to keep leading is probably the hardest thing you can do.
If competitors are introducing well-appreciated features, you cannot ignore them and not implement them.

This is the problem with a market that is getting a crowded. The companies involved are all trying to find the smallest "hole" that will edge them ahead of the competition.
But ever more quickly competitors are able to catch up.

When Apple introduced the iPhone, it was clearly the only real smartphone everyone wanted.
A few years later, competitors catch up, and try to improve.

It seems that one revolution of a product (iPhone, iPad, and arguably the Mac before all this, but also VCR, CD, etc.), sparks a huge amount of competitors who can improve on a product, find the legal possibilities to challenge it, make it cheaper and bigger etc, for lower cost (the classic Japanese approach), creating an evolution which suits the public:
Cheaper, bigger, faster, better.

And the "original creator" of the "revolutionary product", find themselves in an evolutionary battle.
Apple has this with the iPhone and iPad now.

You cannot expect the "original creator" to keep on introducing "revolutionary products": ideas run out, and, IMHO, the designers get sick of the copying talent of the competitors.
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Old Aug 27, 2014, 02:59 PM   #47
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There threads crack me up, unless you work for apple on a VIP level and you recently quit, was recently intereviewed in a tech magazine, and one of your quoted comments was that you were convinced that 'Apple is losing its way', then I'll take this talk seriously. This is just kids in a breakroom speaking jargon for the sake idle chit chat.
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Old Aug 27, 2014, 03:02 PM   #48
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Apple lost its way when they switched to Intel, at the latest.
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Old Aug 27, 2014, 03:09 PM   #49
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Tell me you guys, how on earth do you suppose to have a serious conversation about this when its referring to one of the most valuable/successful companies in the world? Oooooh I get its satire, ha silly me.
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Old Aug 27, 2014, 03:32 PM   #50
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… work for apple on a VIP level and you recently quit, was recently intereviewed in a tech magazine …
Does either criterion apply to you?

Seriously
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