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Old Jan 4, 2013, 04:53 PM   #126
jrswizzle
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Originally Posted by rdowns View Post
It was a stimulus measure, enacted by Obama, due to expire on 12/31/12. Obama wanted it continued, Republicans refused to support it.
To be fair - both sides of the aisle were in favor of letting the payroll tax holiday expire a year ago....Obama pushed it through once, but couldn't again. A rare bipartisan moment for our government these days....
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 04:54 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by jrswizzle View Post
Actually - I live in Texas. Just recently purchased a home, so I am only now paying property taxes but I'd reckon quite a few people in the 50% rent as well....

State to state would be different but on a federal level you pay income tax, SS, medicare.....that's it. And just about 50% of that is income tax.

Now property taxes are a different story. So are sales taxes. But both of those involve a choice by the consumer to purchase something. I.E. if someone is too poor to pay taxes, they most likely won't own a home or the home will cost very little.

But I appreciate you telling me how much I pay in taxes....
If you rent you are still paying property tax - just indirectly. A landlord wouldn't last very long if he didn't include property taxes with his rent.

There is also federal and local taxes on cable, internet, cell phones, gas, etc etc etc. A lot of taxes are hidden in the prices you pay for things.
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 04:55 PM   #128
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That's because I don't vote for "myself". I vote for my country.....
Did you also vote for your country in the previous administration that nearly ruined us financially?

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This is the type of attitude that's causing the instability and ruin we are finding ourselves in.
Except the tea party is the ultimate "me first" organization.

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I'm not voting so Obama can give me more money - I'm voting so I have a chance to make something of myself - follow in my father's footsteps and make my own way.
No matter who is President, or who controls congress, you can still make something of yourself. You might get taxes an extra 3% if you're extremely successful but you can't blame your lack of success on the President.
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 04:56 PM   #129
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At the end of the day the governments in whatever country have to sort this out so companies HAVE to pay an appropriate amount of tax.

At present companies are obliged to avoid tax otherwise they can be sued by their shareholders.
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 04:56 PM   #130
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I'm just trying to make one things clear....it's not a tax hike. I'm not saying everything else you said isn't fair....just sayin'
True, It is not "technically" a tax hike, but it will make my take home pay drop enough for me to take notice and to me that is a tax hike in wallet and once more people start seeing their first Paychecks of 2013 the backlash will be bad towards the President.

I think I might drive to Kailua and protest outside his vacation home now. Ha ha.
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 04:56 PM   #131
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If you rent you are still paying property tax - just indirectly. A landlord wouldn't last very long if he didn't include property taxes with his rent.
Ok - sure. But my "property tax" is used along with the other hundreds of tennants - a smaller drop in the bucket.

My point was - income tax is the top tax for most low income families. While I recognize everyone pays taxes in some form or another, the truth is close to 50% don't pay income tax - the biggest of them all.
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 04:57 PM   #132
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Were going to take your investment and put it in an off shore checking account, invest in precious metals in China, use the interest to take out a mortgage, ANNNNNND its gone....
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 04:57 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by jrswizzle View Post
Actually - I live in Texas. Just recently purchased a home, so I am only now paying property taxes but I'd reckon quite a few people in the 50% rent as well....

State to state would be different but on a federal level you pay income tax, SS, medicare.....that's it. And just about 50% of that is income tax.

Now property taxes are a different story. So are sales taxes. But both of those involve a choice by the consumer to purchase something. I.E. if someone is too poor to pay taxes, they most likely won't own a home or the home will cost very little.

But I appreciate you telling me how much I pay in taxes....
Renters still pay property taxes - they merely do so indirectly.
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 04:58 PM   #134
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It was a stimulus measure, enacted by Obama, due to expire on 12/31/12. Obama wanted it continued, Republicans refused to support it.
lets be fair there was little support for it by either side. Hence the reason it went away.

now the Pay roll tax did a lot more for the economny that reduce taxes at the top. Mostly because a good chunk of that money was injected in at the bottom.

Trickle up works a hell of a lot better than trickle down.
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 04:58 PM   #135
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Never assumed you were - only said that most libs blame Bush for the recession - generally because they lack either the willingness or the brains to look deeper.

Like you, I agree Bush had his flaws - but for all of them, his end goal wasn't a move towards socialism....
A) We are already a partially socialist nation
B) Nobody is trying to move toward pure socialism

Socialism has become the buzzword to criticise Obama, but it's truly being used out of context. Being a moderate that leans left, I WANT the government to take some of my money and assist my friends and family (all over this great country) in ways they need it. The government is more adept at delivering it where it is needed than myself or my Church is. (Some areas of the nation or groups of people need more help at times than others...this is not easily managed by individual giving. Edit: and people or organizations are more prone to showing favoritism or prejudice in who their support is given to.) HOWEVER, we just need to get this crap under control and make it more efficient and use these programs to enable people and then wean them off.

But these are just my views....I know not everyone agrees....
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 04:58 PM   #136
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They say all of those things, but when have they actually practiced it in the last 40 years?

Plus, they only want to cut entitlement programs. They won't touch the Defense Budget. Democrats won't touch entitlement. We're screwed either way.
They won't touch the defense budget, which is one of the reasons I'm not all for them. They do oppose higher taxes and spending on the local level.
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 04:59 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by jrswizzle View Post
Actually - I live in Texas. Just recently purchased a home, so I am only now paying property taxes but I'd reckon quite a few people in the 50% rent as well....

State to state would be different but on a federal level you pay income tax, SS, medicare.....that's it. And just about 50% of that is income tax.

Now property taxes are a different story. So are sales taxes. But both of those involve a choice by the consumer to purchase something. I.E. if someone is too poor to pay taxes, they most likely won't own a home or the home will cost very little.

But I appreciate you telling me how much I pay in taxes....
Renter still pay property tax indirectly. Heck it already has been figured out renters are hit a hell of a lot harder by an increase in property tax that home owners in how rent gets pushed up to cover it. They push up the rent more than what the property tax increase turned out to be.
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 04:59 PM   #138
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Reminder: The New York Times already ran this story.
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 05:00 PM   #139
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Never assumed you were - only said that most libs blame Bush for the recession - generally because they lack either the willingness or the brains to look deeper.

Like you, I agree Bush had his flaws - but for all of them, his end goal wasn't a move towards socialism....
Please describe this socialism of which you speak.
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 05:00 PM   #140
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Lets start with cutting defense spending, and corporate tax breaks(corporate welfare), and eliminate loop holes in our tax code.

Then, let move back to the pre-Clinton tax rates and let the middle class keep more of thier income since they are more likely to push that money back into the economy.
I agree about cutting defense, but I think it's better to tax businesses in a way other than loophole-filled income tax.
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 05:00 PM   #141
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Renter still pay property tax indirectly. Heck it already has been figured out renters are hit a hell of a lot harder by an increase in property tax that home owners in how rent gets pushed up to cover it. They push up the rent more than what the property tax increase turned out to be.
I was wondering why people were acting like renters don't pay property taxes...
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 05:00 PM   #142
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My point was - income tax is the top tax for most low income families. While I recognize everyone pays taxes in some form or another, the truth is close to 50% don't pay income tax - the biggest of them all.
You've already admitted that you don't pay any income tax, so what is your point?
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 05:00 PM   #143
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Did you also vote for your country in the previous administration that nearly ruined us financially?
I was too young - but the fact that you cling to the "It's all Bush's fault" narrative cracks me up. CLINTON's housing policies caused the collapse, the DEMOCRATIC congress during Bush's terms didn't help matters, and no, Bush's spending didn't help either.

I'm sure you blame Congress now and not the President for the fact we still haven't made any progress.....can't have it both ways bud. There's blame enough for everyone - but my vote was AGAINST socializing our government, plain and simple.



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Except the tea party is the ultimate "me first" organization.
Ok? When did I bring up the tea party?

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No matter who is President, or who controls congress, you can still make something of yourself. You might get taxes an extra 3% if you're extremely successful but you can't blame your lack of success on the President.
For now - I'm sure those in other socialist countries said the same thing towards the beginning.
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 05:01 PM   #144
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Wrong, they just shift the spending. Look at what Bush did on his way out the door.
Bush is not a representative of all Republicans. He is/was an idiot. And even if most Republican president candidates would increase military spending, remember that the Executive Branch is not the only branch of American government. I'm not a Republican, but I just generally support local and state Republican candidates more often.
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 05:02 PM   #145
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"Move out of the way, so costumers with money can be helped!"
Are we talking Karl Lagerfeld here?
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 05:04 PM   #146
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Obama doesn't think anything needs to be cut. He would like carte blanche to spend more and more.
How do you know what he thinks?

----------

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Originally Posted by iGrip View Post
This is all very basic stuff. Prices are related only tangentially to a business's costs. Businesses ALWAYS charge as high a price as they can, consistent with maximum total profits. Overhead costs really ain't got much of anything to do with it.
Depends on the business. If there is a lot of competition, they'll go as low as possible with the current costs and taxes.
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 05:04 PM   #147
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I was wondering why people were acting like renters don't pay property taxes...
Because they believe GOP lies?
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 05:04 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by Geckotek View Post
A) We are already a partially socialist nation
B) Nobody is trying to move toward pure socialism

Socialism has become the buzzword to criticise Obama, but it's truly being used out of context. Being a moderate that leans left, I WANT the government to take some of my money and assist my friends and family (all over this great country) in ways they need it. The government is more adept at delivering it where it is needed than myself or my Church is. (Some areas of the nation or groups of people need more help at times than others...this is not easily managed by individual giving. Edit: and people or organizations are more prone to showing favoritism or prejudice) HOWEVER, we just need to get this crap under control and make it more efficient and use these programs to enable people and then wean them off.

But these are just my views....I know not everyone agrees....
Sure - I think more people would be willing to give more money to the government if they knew it would be spent even remotely responsibly.....but the fact remains I would NEVER give money to someone who was way in debt and used previous loans to pay for superfluous things (with some necessities sprinkled in) instead of making his debts right.

I would disagree about the church - at least where mine is concerned. I'd rather give a whole heck of alot more money to my church than the government at this point - if the end goal is feeding the poor.....which has apparently become part of the government's job description.
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 05:04 PM   #149
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Bush is not a representative of all Republicans. He is/was an idiot. And even if most Republican president candidates would increase military spending, remember that the Executive Branch is not the only branch of American government. I'm not a Republican, but I just generally support local and state Republican candidates more often.
Fair enough, but Romney was an idiot too.
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 05:04 PM   #150
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Ok - sure. But my "property tax" is used along with the other hundreds of tennants - a smaller drop in the bucket.

My point was - income tax is the top tax for most low income families. While I recognize everyone pays taxes in some form or another, the truth is close to 50% don't pay income tax - the biggest of them all.

That 50% figure is misleading as many were temporarily removed from the federal tax roles due to the 2009 Stimulus. They have since expired. Before our collapse, 40% was the norm. Of that 40%, many are elderly, disabled and students (future taxpayers).
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