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Old Jan 5, 2013, 11:12 AM   #126
Chrislove22
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I had never heard of a fusion drive. I use the manual version on my MBP: replaced the optical drive with the HDD and installed a SSD to boot OSX. With prices falling and capacities increasing for SSD's increasing, are Fusion Drives and dual systems like mine just technology bridges?
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 11:12 AM   #127
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If you are using some serious software and system data, 128GB is pretty much completely inadequate. The best starter drive is 256gb SSD, unless you have a minimal system installed.

My 128GB SSD has only the system data and applications. That gives me about 5 GB spare. I can't even load Logic Pro 9 completely on my main drive. All movies, music, documents, downloads, etc. are on a secondary HHD.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 11:16 AM   #128
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Fun fact - Apple doesn't currently support iMacs with the Fusion drive. If the drive dies, their only option is to replace the entire machine. I would say that this is definitely screwing early adopters.

Replacement hybrid drives are not available in their internal support inventory system yet, so they can't swap out your dead drive at the Genius Bar, or even via in-home technician visit.

If yours dies right away like mine did (3 days in, so I got to spend many hours moving data and configuring before it died) and it's a custom build from the online Store, don't bother going to a Genius, just call AppleCare and have them order you a brand new machine. I think most machines with Fusion drives are custom builds anyway, so this probably means everybody who has a Fusion is in this boat.

Absurd, but true - they do not actually support their most expensive current machine; my guess is that they are bogarting all the hybrid drives they can get for manufacturing, and will provide them to repair after the lead time on machines gets lower, but that's cold comfort to their early-adopting loyal customers.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 11:22 AM   #129
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[QUOTE=nematoda2;16610538]
Quote:
Originally Posted by azentropy View Post
Great news, but yeah kinda ticked now. Would have changed how I ordered.

Still wish there was just a SSD or Flash Drive option. Some people don't require 1TB and don't want ANY mechanical HDD and the noise, heat and higher failure time that come along with them.[COLOR="#808080"]

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I've had my 27" with a fusion drive for 3 weeks. There's no noise at all.
Congrats - Some people have better or more tuned hearing that others. While my eyesight is in the bottom 0.1 percentile, my hearing is in the top 1 percentile.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 11:23 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by 50voltphantom View Post
I completely agree!! Great news IMO.
I just checked the store: The low end offering is limited to 1TB Fusion, not like the 3TB for the 27" version

Another year I guess...
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 11:25 AM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrislove22 View Post
I had never heard of a fusion drive. I use the manual version on my MBP: replaced the optical drive with the HDD and installed a SSD to boot OSX. With prices falling and capacities increasing for SSD's increasing, are Fusion Drives and dual systems like mine just technology bridges?
To put it simply - yes. Until 1tb SSD's drop in the 50/cent per gig category this will be the case.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 11:29 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by hleewell View Post
I just checked the store: The low end offering is limited to 1TB Fusion, not like the 3TB for the 27" version

Another year I guess...
That's mainly because the 27" iMac uses a 3.5" desktop size drive for the 3TB option. The 21" is using 2.5" laptop size drives.

----------

I'm still surprised they didn't go for 64GB fusion as standard on every iMac & Mac mini. Would have been a great selling point to have some sort of SSD standard on every Mac.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 11:30 AM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hleewell View Post
I just checked the store: The low end offering is limited to 1TB Fusion, not like the 3TB for the 27" version

Another year I guess...
The 21.5 imac uses a laptop drive - sizes greater then 1tb don't exist (well in the standard <9~10mm format - 2TB laptop drives are much thicker).

The 27 inch has more room and thus has a full size HD.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 11:35 AM   #134
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While my eyesight is in the bottom 0.1 percentile, my hearing is in the top 1 percentile.

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Old Jan 5, 2013, 11:39 AM   #135
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Good news, but still, the 5400rpm is a deal breaker. 7200rpm drives shouldn't be an issue for Apple to do, especially for the $250 premium they want for it and the price of the iMac in general.

Until 128gb SSD is standard in the 21.5", no sale. Even though my mid-2010 i3 iMac is a PITA on my Nikon D800 Raw files, I'll live with it.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 11:53 AM   #136
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I will not buy a 21.5" iMac until an SSD is available as standard. Not a fusion drive. A standard SSD drive with at least 500GB.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lesser Evets View Post
If you are using some serious software and system data, 128GB is pretty much completely inadequate. The best starter drive is 256gb SSD, unless you have a minimal system installed.

My 128GB SSD has only the system data and applications. That gives me about 5 GB spare. I can't even load Logic Pro 9 completely on my main drive. All movies, music, documents, downloads, etc. are on a secondary HHD.
That's completely ridiculous. I have a 13" MBP that I've been using for over a year with a 500GB HDD and 499.25 free.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 11:53 AM   #137
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Crap, my cover is blown...
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 11:53 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by SDAVE View Post
"Fusion drive" is just a gimmick. Very transparent to the user, but it's pretty much an mSATA SSD and HDD combo. That will go away once SSD's are more affordable.

Your iMac has a 2.5" HDD slot, so if you just have an SSD in there, you can upgrade it yourself and make it into a "fusion drive". There are plenty of tools out there and people have made it work on systems that didn't come with it by default.
SSD's are more affordable now. You can get a 128gb for under 90 dollars now. 256gb for under 200. I payed over 200 for a 120 less than 2 years ago. And these are for top of the line samsung drives. Apple uses much cheaper quality drives (mostly toshiba if I remember correctly)
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 12:01 PM   #139
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SSD's are more affordable now. You can get a 128gb for under 90 dollars now. 256gb for under 200. I payed over 200 for a 120 less than 2 years ago. And these are for top of the line samsung drives. Apple uses much cheaper quality drives (mostly toshiba if I remember correctly)
Still not as cheap as a 4TB drive.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 12:01 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by paul7e View Post
Fun fact - Apple doesn't currently support iMacs with the Fusion drive. If the drive dies, their only option is to replace the entire machine. I would say that this is definitely screwing early adopters.

Replacement hybrid drives are not available in their internal support inventory system yet, so they can't swap out your dead drive at the Genius Bar, or even via in-home technician visit.

If yours dies right away like mine did (3 days in, so I got to spend many hours moving data and configuring before it died) and it's a custom build from the online Store, don't bother going to a Genius, just call AppleCare and have them order you a brand new machine. I think most machines with Fusion drives are custom builds anyway, so this probably means everybody who has a Fusion is in this boat.

Absurd, but true - they do not actually support their most expensive current machine; my guess is that they are bogarting all the hybrid drives they can get for manufacturing, and will provide them to repair after the lead time on machines gets lower, but that's cold comfort to their early-adopting loyal customers.


Sorry ... that is totally false information.

There is no "hybrid drive" involved here ... it is not a "single drive" as you say.

Fusion is made from a standard SSD and a standard Hard Disk drive joined together into one logical drive by OS X. This is the way Fusion Mac Mini computers are shipped. In the case of the iMac, the SSD is a less common "blade" type device, but still available from OWC and are also used in Macbook Air and rMBPro machines, and the disk drive is a standard format SATA drive.

The fact that Apple may choose to replace a failed computer with a Fusion drive probably has more to do with expediency in getting the customer up and running again. They then use trained technicians (not Genius staff) to repair the defective machine and sell it through the refurb store.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 12:05 PM   #141
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Except its not a 128GB. It's 1.1 TB.
Actually, isn't it 1.128 TB ?
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 12:08 PM   #142
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Sorry ... that is totally false information.

There is no "hybrid drive" involved here ... it is not a "single drive" as you say.
I was about to post the same thing, you beat me to it.

Paul7e, I'm not sure what you heard or were told, but it was simply not accurate.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 12:17 PM   #143
blackhand1001
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Originally Posted by SDAVE View Post
Still not as cheap as a 4TB drive.
Still apple is charging over 200 upgrade fee for a 128gb ssd. Thats way overpriced and there should be an option to order only an ssd for people who don't need a tb of storage.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 12:31 PM   #144
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lets wait for the other shoe to drop....smaller SSD only options. I knew it would happen.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 12:31 PM   #145
MrMister111
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Well I'm in UK (if that's makes a difference) but I'm a little peeved tbh.

I purely ordered the high end 21.5" so I could have the fusion drive. I was at my max (well over actually) for a new iMac. And the bottom end would have been more than suffice for me. I am disappointed in Apple this time, there was no reason, technical or otherwise, to not put the fusion in the bottom end 21.5" apart from to make more money from the people who had waited and waited and waited for the new iMac.

So is 132 (UK) extra that I paid, between the bottom and high end both with fusion worth it? ie the 2.7GHz over the 2.9GHz and GT640 over GT650 worth it?
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 12:40 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by gnasher729 View Post
What about this claim: On an MBP, you can't hear the hard drive unless you put an ear on the case. And on an iMac positioned at a reasonable viewing distance, you can't hear the hard drive.
I could easiely hear the HDD on my now sold MBP 2011, and that was from normal viewing distance.

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With the same SSD drive, it won't be faster. If all your data fits on the SSD drive, it will be all on the SSD portion of the Fusion drive and the speed is the same. If it doesn't fit, then the Fusion drive is infinitely faster because it still works and the SSD drive on its own doesn't.
It wouldn't be the same size SSD drive though, since you wouldn't have to pay for the HDD, only the SSD. For the price Apple pays for the 1TB plus the upgrade cost for a "fusion drive" you would get a 512GB SSD. Half the storage but definitely more speed over having just 128GB on a SSD.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 12:43 PM   #147
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Judging by the responses on this thread, I'd suggest to Apple to separate, but not divide, the iMac line, just like the MacBook with MBA & MBPro Retina.

iMac Lite: focus on thin, I mean super thin, form factor, SSD only, maybe touch screen (you know for the kids), good processing power (maybe iOS-like system?)

iMac Regular: current iMac, fusion hybrid SSD+HDD, upgradeability: difficult, better processing power

iMac Pro/Max: thicker enclosure for upgradeable HDD, upgradeability: easiest, external latch (like the RAM compartment in current model), SSD blade soldered to carry OS and critical files, high end DAC for musicians, best processing power, no touch screen, digital speakers (OK last item not possible).
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 12:55 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by hleewell View Post
Judging by the responses on this thread, I'd suggest to Apple to separate, but not divide, the iMac line, just like the MacBook with MBA & MBPro Retina.

iMac Lite: focus on thin, I mean super thin, form factor, SSD only, maybe touch screen (you know for the kids), good processing power (maybe iOS-like system?)

iMac Regular: current iMac, fusion hybrid SSD+HDD, upgradeability: difficult, better processing power

iMac Pro/Max: thicker enclosure for upgradeable HDD, upgradeability: easiest, external latch (like the RAM compartment in current model), SSD blade soldered to carry OS and critical files, high end DAC for musicians, best processing power, no touch screen, digital speakers (OK last item not possible).
That is what the Mac Pro is for. Apple should always avoid people with champagne tastes on a beer budget.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 12:55 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by mdelvecchio View Post
you're quite high. it's $250 for a 128gb SSD drive and a 1tb hd, installed
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Originally Posted by bdbolin View Post
wtf are you talking about? It's 1TB drive in total. 128gb SSD within it is generous if the price is fair.

FYI my 3TB Imac actually said around 3.12TB's of free space.
You are both very misinformed or just blinded by fanboyism.

BTO options:
1TB HDD = 0$ (included)
1TB Fusion = 250$

Since the Fusion consists of 1 HDD + 1 SSD, the price of the SSD is the price for the Fusion minus the price of the HDD.

250$ for the 1TB Fusion minus 0$ for the 1TB HDD = 250$ for the SSD.

Same with 3TB:
3TB HDD = 150$
3TB Fusion = 400$

400$ for the 3TB Fusion minus 150$ for the 3TB HDD = 250$ for the SSD.
So you see, you are - in fact - paying 250$ for a 128GB SSD.

That is NOT generous nor a fair price.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 12:56 PM   #150
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Yea. I really don't like this new trend of Apple updating BTO options after a Mac has been released. They did it with the MacBook Pro 15" retina and they are doing it again with the new iMac.

Seriously this time..... Steve would never have allowed this. Really though, this kind of behavior hardly ever happened under Steve's watch.
Yeah, I really hate how old products get updated every year. It isn't fair to those people that bought the product 5 years ago.

Boy, I sure did get ripped off when I bought my G5 iMac because for the same price today, I'd have a 20X faster computer.

If there's one thing I sure hate, it's new options for old products. I really hate it when old products are given new legs to stand on for just a little longer.

I hope the next iPad is 2x as thick as the old one. That way, 1st gen buyers will feel a little better for once.

/sarcasm.
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