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Old Jan 7, 2013, 03:39 PM   #26
cheezeit
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Or make it where you can fold the large screen in half when you want it smaller!
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 04:48 PM   #27
DodgeV83
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Originally Posted by zbarvian View Post
That's simply not true. Here in the U.S., all the flagship phones besides the iPhone are 4.3" at the minimum. And I'm quite sure they're selling. The S3 outsold the 4S before the 5 came out.
What source do you have to show Google's own data on Android phones is incorrect?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spungoflex View Post
Those figures are misleading to say the least, or (more likely) outright false. If you can't see the obvious trend toward larger and larger screens, you simply have your head stuck in the sand.

All of the most popular 2012 android sets are WELL over 4 inches and most are closing in on 5 inches.
What source do you have to show Google's own data on Android phones is incorrect?

What source do you have to show the most popular phones in 2012 were all over 4 inches? During the Apple vs Samsung trial the courts forced Samsung to reveal sales for the first time (they otherwise only announce "shipped" phones, not "sold" phones), and it was revealed that the Prevail, a prepaid model with a 3.2" display, was their best selling phone from June 2010 to then:

Samsung Galaxy Prevail is Samsung’s best-selling US Smartphone since June 2010, says court documents

The demand isn't there. According to Google's data, the iPhone 5 is either equal in size, or bigger than 93.9% of all Android devices.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 04:50 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by wxman2003 View Post
Actually that's not true. Samsung counts those that they ship out as sold, where Apple only counts phones that are actually sold. Big, big difference. Samsung ships out millions, half could be on the shelves, in the warehouse, etc and they count those as sold.
Those were stats from carriers. Samsung just announced at the CES conference 30 million S3's SOLD, not shipped. That's impressive. I don't really how you can deny the trend toward bigger displays.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 05:05 PM   #29
DodgeV83
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Originally Posted by zbarvian View Post
Those were stats from carriers. Samsung just announced at the CES conference 30 million S3's SOLD, not shipped. That's impressive. I don't really how you can deny the trend toward bigger displays.
No, those are stats from Samsung. Whenever they say "sold" they add "to carriers" or "to our distribution channels" or something at the end. I've even seen it at the bottom as an asterisk. Since this seems to be their company-wide policy, places like TheVerge.com usually add "We could not confirm if this was told to their channels, or sold to end-users" whenever Samsung announces a new number and doesn't mention who the sales were to.

The 30 million number has recently been touted by Samsung, and they confirmed it was "channel sales". Here is a source where Samsung initially said "sold", then when pressed for clarification admitted it was "channel sales":

http://techcrunch.com/2012/11/05/sam...te-than-sgsii/

Quote from the article:

Quote:
Update: Samsung has confirmed the 30 million figure refers to “channel sales” — aka shipments — not to direct sales to customers.
Do you have a source showing they are referring to end user sales, and not channel sales? If so, it would be the first time Samsung has ever released this sensitive information.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 05:36 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by DodgeV83 View Post
No, those are stats from Samsung. Whenever they say "sold" they add "to carriers" or "to our distribution channels" or something at the end. I've even seen it at the bottom as an asterisk. Since this seems to be their company-wide policy, places like TheVerge.com usually add "We could not confirm if this was told to their channels, or sold to end-users" whenever Samsung announces a new number and doesn't mention who the sales were to.

The 30 million number has recently been touted by Samsung, and they confirmed it was "channel sales". Here is a source where Samsung initially said "sold", then when pressed for clarification admitted it was "channel sales":

http://techcrunch.com/2012/11/05/sam...te-than-sgsii/

Quote from the article:



Do you have a source showing they are referring to end user sales, and not channel sales? If so, it would be the first time Samsung has ever released this sensitive information.
I don't see why you're fighting this so much, lol. They are selling very well, and phones will get bigger screens.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 05:40 PM   #31
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I don't see why you're fighting this so much, lol. They are selling very well, and phones will get bigger screens.
Of course the screens are getting bigger. However, not everyone wants one the size of a lunch box.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 05:53 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Spungoflex View Post
Could they do that without causing app compatibility issues? In 2013, a 3.5" screen on a smart phone is comical. Even 4" is pushing the limits. Mark my words, in 5 years the standard screen size for smart phone will be over 5 inches.
Oh my god. In 5 years time, 4 inch will be considered comical. Because it is much, much, much too large.


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Originally Posted by Spungoflex View Post
You are simply living in a fantasy world if you believe screens on smart phones are not getting bigger. Let's see how many major smart phones are built under 4 inches in 2013.
It's not a fantasy world. It's a world where taste still survives.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 05:58 PM   #33
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I think finally Apple will introduce new iPhones with larger displays, but clearly not in 2013. This year they will just introduce iPhone 5S, which will have the same 4 inch screen as iPhone 5.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 05:58 PM   #34
DodgeV83
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Originally Posted by zbarvian View Post
I don't see why you're fighting this so much, lol. They are selling very well, and phones will get bigger screens.
Shall I take this response to mean you have conceded your points?
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 06:11 PM   #35
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In the short term, yes they are getting larger. In 5 to 10 years, they will be much smaller. Wearable phones, whether looking like glasses, or on your wrist, or interfaced with another device. The days of carrying an actual smartphone are coming to an end. It's just a bridge to something better.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 06:43 PM   #36
Spungoflex
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Originally Posted by DodgeV83 View Post
What source do you have to show the most popular phones in 2012 were all over 4 inches?
You are basically sticking your fingers in your ears and singing "la la la la la la" to yourself. You look absolutely ridiculous and nobody in this thread is taking you seriously.

2012 releases speak for themselves. The glaringly obvious TREND is towards bigger and bigger screens. And 2013 releases are projected to have even bigger screens. Enjoy the fantasy world you have created for yourself though.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 06:48 PM   #37
DodgeV83
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Originally Posted by Spungoflex View Post
You are basically sticking your fingers in your ears and singing "la la la la la la" to yourself. You look absolutely ridiculous and nobody in this thread is taking you seriously.

2012 releases speak for themselves. The glaringly obvious TREND is towards bigger and bigger screens. And 2013 releases are projected to have even bigger screens. Enjoy the fantasy world you have created for yourself though.
So you have no source to backup your claim?
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 06:50 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by DodgeV83 View Post
So you have no source to backup your claim?
Show me the source proving that cell phone companies are not releasing displays larger than 4 inches. Go ahead. I'll wait.

You've posted absolutely nothing of any relevance so far.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 07:47 PM   #39
DodgeV83
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Originally Posted by Spungoflex View Post
Show me the source proving that cell phone companies are not releasing displays larger than 4 inches. Go ahead. I'll wait.

You've posted absolutely nothing of any relevance so far.
Your original post, and my reply, is not related to what companies are releasing. I do not have to go out and tally up all the Android Flip Phones, Android prepaid phones, and Android "Mini" Phones that were released just in the last few months in order to refute your point.

Your original post claimed "The market" is moving towards bigger phones. All I have to do to refute that, is provide a source that shows where "The market" stands.

Google did that for me.

The Apple-Samsung court documents did that too.

If you want to say the market is moving towards big screened phones, because 6.1% is higher than the 4% it was last year (whatever the number was), then sure. It grew a few percentage points (at most), but you still need to keep things in perspective.

It is a fact that the iPhone 5 is either equal in size, or bigger than 93.9% of all Android devices sold. When you consider that the iPhone 5 is the best selling smartphone in the world, if you look at it in terms of raw sales numbers, it is likely that 99% of all smartphones sold in 2012 were either 4" or less.

(Combining iPhone 5 sales numbers + 93.9% of Android's 1.3 million units a day sold)

In short, you cannot conclude that "Apple will be left in the dust" based on what the market is currently telling you they want.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 08:04 PM   #40
zbarvian
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Originally Posted by DodgeV83 View Post
Shall I take this response to mean you have conceded your points?
No. You have a cynical notion that whenever Samsung distinctly says they've "SOLD" 30 million devices, that still doesn't mean they've actually sold 30 million devices. Regardless, it's impossible to argue that it's an incredibly well-selling phone, and that phones are getting larger. Not sure why you're being so contentious over an abundantly clear observation.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 08:09 PM   #41
Spungoflex
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Originally Posted by DodgeV83 View Post
Your original post, and my reply, is not related to what companies are releasing.
You most certainly do. So let's see the links. Still waiting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgeV83 View Post
When you consider that the iPhone 5 is the best selling smartphone in the world, if you look at it in terms of raw sales numbers, it is likely that 99% of all smartphones sold in 2012 were either 4" or less.
Where is the link to that outrageous claim?

It has already been shown that the vast majority of major releases in 2012 (including the iphone) had 4 inch+ screens. 2013 will be no exception. Screens are getting bigger and bigger and bigger. Not opinion. Fact.

I'll be sure to revisit this thread for every major release of 2013, just to rub some salt in your wounds.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 08:12 PM   #42
DodgeV83
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No. You have a cynical notion that whenever Samsung distinctly says they've "SOLD" 30 million devices, that still doesn't mean they've actually sold 30 million devices. Regardless, it's impossible to argue that it's an incredibly well-selling phone, and that phones are getting larger. Not sure why you're being so contentious over an abundantly clear observation.
Correct, it is impossible to argue that it's an incredibly well-selling phone, as that as an opinion. It could sell 500,000 and someone could still consider that "incredibly well-selling". I don't think anyone is arguing your use of terminology there.

It is, however, possible to argue that phones are getting larger, because that's not subjective. No one here has presented anything showing that phones are in fact getting larger. On the contrary, the statistics show that an overwhelming majority of smartphones (between 93.9% and 99%) in the market today are either 4" or less.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 08:19 PM   #43
Spungoflex
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On the contrary, the statistics show that an overwhelming majority of smartphones (between 93.9% and 99%) in the market today are either 4" or less.
Your own charts say nothing of the sort. Nice try.

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Originally Posted by zbarvian View Post
No. You have a cynical notion that whenever Samsung distinctly says they've "SOLD" 30 million devices, that still doesn't mean they've actually sold 30 million devices. Regardless, it's impossible to argue that it's an incredibly well-selling phone, and that phones are getting larger. Not sure why you're being so contentious over an abundantly clear observation.
In his fantasy world, the Galaxy S3 was a failure and smart phone screens are getting smaller.

I'm guessing the sky is green and grass is blue in his world.


PS. He's also giving all of his own comments an up-vote, which is pretty hilarious.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 08:28 PM   #44
DodgeV83
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Originally Posted by Spungoflex View Post
You most certainly do. So let's see the links. Still waiting.
If you believe so, then you simply do not understand your argument

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spungoflex View Post
Where is the link to that outrageous claim?
There is no link, as I stated it as conjecture. If 93.9% of Android phones are 4" or less, and the iPhone 5 (4") is currently the best selling smartphone, it is easy to guess that around 99% of all smartphones sold are 4" or less. All it would take is for the iPhone 5 to have sold at a number around 6% of all Android phones used in that calculation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spungoflex View Post
It has already been shown that the vast majority of major releases in 2012 (including the iphone) had 4 inch+ screens. 2013 will be no exception. Screens are getting bigger and bigger and bigger. Not opinion. Fact.
"Major releases" is not indicative of "The market", or overall sales.

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Originally Posted by Spungoflex View Post
I'll be sure to revisit this thread for every major release of 2013, just to rub some salt in your wounds.
Even if it turns out to be true that 100% of all smartphones released in 2013 are 5" and above, that will not make your current statement that the market is moving towards 5"+ valid. You have shown nothing to substantiate that statement, as you have not presented anything on current purchasing trends.

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Originally Posted by Spungoflex View Post
Your own charts say nothing of the sort. Nice try.
Then you do not understand the charts.

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Originally Posted by Spungoflex View Post
In his fantasy world, the Galaxy S3 was a failure and smart phone screens are getting smaller.
It was never stated that the S3 was a failure, nor was it stated that phone screes are getting smaller. This is a classic Straw Man argument:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Quote:
To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and to refute it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 08:30 PM   #45
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Back in the day, phones kept on getting smaller and smaller. To the point where enough was enough and they became bigger again. In the end, a phone you can hold and operate with one hand without having it feel too big or too small seem to be what people want (outside of the fads).
Opinion

Let me add "10 char" before an overzealous mod gives me a warning for a one word post
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 08:38 PM   #46
Spungoflex
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If you believe so, then you simply do not understand your argument
Still waiting for that link.

As you continue searching for it, I'll sit back and have a hearty laugh while ALL the major players, from Samsung, to HTC, to Sony, to RIM, to Motorola, continue to release phones with bigger and bigger screens in 2013. Not that there's a trend or anything...
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 08:38 PM   #47
zbarvian
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Originally Posted by DodgeV83 View Post
Correct, it is impossible to argue that it's an incredibly well-selling phone, as that as an opinion. It could sell 500,000 and someone could still consider that "incredibly well-selling". I don't think anyone is arguing your use of terminology there.

It is, however, possible to argue that phones are getting larger, because that's not subjective. No one here has presented anything showing that phones are in fact getting larger. On the contrary, the statistics show that an overwhelming majority of smartphones (between 93.9% and 99%) in the market today are either 4" or less.
You're impossible to reason with, but you'll have to eat your words in a few months time. You can raise all the petty arguments you want, but there's no stopping the market trend of phones getting larger and people buying those larger phones.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 10:06 PM   #48
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So true. Many people already changed to Note 2 from iPhone. Apple can't ignore what is happening. They better make 4.5"+ iPhone this year. No point of selling iPhone 5s with that same screen size. They already proved that the machine is powerful and can run anything smoothly but what's the point with that tiny screen. New iPhone definitely needs these two things; bigger screen and a better battery life. More than 2000 mAh at least and it is time to change that screen resolution to 1080p.
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 04:20 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by MassiveAttack View Post
Opinion

Let me add "10 char" before an overzealous mod gives me a warning for a one word post
What do you mean? The part you bolded isn't an opinion, but a reflection of how cell phone sizes have varied throughout the years. It seems like they have always come back to be about the same size. I believe, based on the evolution of phones, phones above 5" will be like the Nokia 8310 - popular for a while.
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 08:30 AM   #50
DodgeV83
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Still waiting for that link.

As you continue searching for it, I'll sit back and have a hearty laugh while ALL the major players, from Samsung, to HTC, to Sony, to RIM, to Motorola, continue to release phones with bigger and bigger screens in 2013. Not that there's a trend or anything...
Your original post asserted that, "The market is CLEARLY moving towards big (5 inch plus) 1080p screens on smart phones."

Even if it turns out to be true that 100% of all smartphones released in 2013 are 5" and above, that will not make your current statement that the market is moving towards 5"+ 1080p screens valid. You have shown nothing to substantiate that statement, as you have not presented anything on current purchasing trends.

No one here has presented anything showing that phones are in fact getting larger with 1080p screens. You have shown that the largest phone is getting larger, but not that the overall market is getting larger. On the contrary, the statistics show that an overwhelming majority of smartphones (between 93.9% and 99%) in the market today are either 4" or less, and that the iPhone 5 (a 4" phone) has broken all previous sales records, selling faster than any smartphone in history. Nothing has been shown to refute any of this.
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