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Old Jan 7, 2013, 06:16 PM   #101
rmwebs
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Originally Posted by willcapellaro View Post
Can you elaborate? Unreliable data speeds or anything more serious like mouse/keyboard problems? I can understand data speed fluctuation, as it's the CPU prioritizing things. It sucks nonetheless.

Apple just doesn't give us enough ports.
All of them have worked fine if you plug just 1 external (powered) drive in, but the second you plug anything else in, the connections become unstable and are dropped. I thought it was a power issue, so tried beefier power supplies but its not - it only happens under OS X so it must be just a completely crap USB 3.0 implementation on Apple's part.

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Originally Posted by spoonie1972 View Post
still $200 too much. this is insanity. early adoption or not.
Around $65 of the price goes just on licensing Thunderbolt, USB 3.0 and Firewire.

Blame Apple/Intel for the majority of the price.

~ $25 per thunderbolt port (so $50)
~ $5 per USB 3.0 port ($15)

On top of that you've got R&D, Development, Parts (and TB parts are very expensive to make).

You'll probably find Belkin's cost price is around $180-$200 at least, so the price tag is completely understandable.

Now, if Intel and Apple stopped screwing around and acting like elitists, we'd get that license price down to the USB 3.0 mark, and get a lot more hardware out there.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 06:17 PM   #102
BiggAW
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They need more monitor support. That's the only thing that would differentiate them from a USB hub.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 06:25 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by jm001 View Post
It still doesn't cut down on cables since you still have to plug the cables in this dock. So instead of connecting it to your computer you connect it to the dock. It's a hub.
That's not what a dock is for. A hub only connects one type of interface. A network hub connects one network connection with several, a USB hub connects one USB connection with several, etc. etc.

What this is for, and the reason it's called a 'docking station' (going back to the 90's and early 2000's when laptops had a dock you'd connect them to that did just this), is because it's for thunderbolt equipped laptops. You work with your laptop on the go, spend all day with it, etc. Then you come home, set it at your desk, plug in ONE cable (plus the charger), and you have your monitor (You can still use an adapter at the end of your thunderbolt chain to connect it to a non thunderbolt monitor, or use it as a mini Displayport port), your external hard drives, a wired keyboard and mouse if you have one, etc.

As it is right now, I plug my laptop into a mini DisplayPort monitor (Apple display), a USB 3.0 Hub, MagSafe, and Optical Audio. The hubs (display is a USB 2.0 hub) connect my iPhone, an external drive, an external DVD drive (I have the optical bay replaced with a second SSD), a beloved wired mouse that I have had for more than 10 years that I simply won't do without, an iPad, etc. Optical audio goes to my sound system, etc. I also connect it to GbE occasionally, especially when I have a large time machine backup or need to move large files across my network (it's over twice as fast as Wireless N in dual 5GHz mode)

A dock, in theory, could replace 5 connections to my laptop, with just one. Nifty huh? It's a convenience thing, many don't want to pay for that convenience, but some do. It also ADDS ports without adapters. Many Mac laptops no longer have ethernet, some of us still use it at our desks because it's faster. When Wireless ac comes out, if it delivers the promised speeds, that'll change. But for now, I can't imagine moving gigabytes worth of files over WiFi when I'm at a fixed location (my desk) which has a small gigabit switch right on it that runs back to my router. It also adds FireWire, and some of these Docks also add DVI-D or HDMI. All of these things can be had with adapters or dongles, but the dock replaces all of those dongles AND doesn't tie up ports on your MacBook with dongles, and allows one plug to connect and disconnect.

One thing I'd wish they'd do, is make them 'smart', in the sense that external drives would 'mount' to the dock, and not the computer. Similar to the way you 'mount' a network drive. If you lose your connection to the network drive, it won't damage or corrupt the drive. If the docks did this, it would add a level of convenience. As it is now, I have to remember to unmount my drives before disconnecting to go mobile.

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Old Jan 7, 2013, 06:26 PM   #104
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No Security Slot?

If I'm going to walk away from the table with this thing on it I would think there should be a security slot. Did I miss it?
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 06:26 PM   #105
el-John-o
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Now, if Intel and Apple stopped screwing around and acting like elitists, we'd get that license price down to the USB 3.0 mark, and get a lot more hardware out there.
Yeah I wish that too, but I imagine there was a lot of R&D between the two of them to get to that technology. Although I tend to think a smaller licensing fee would encourage a higher volume of sales and thus the same profit, with a greater adopting base of Thunderbolt. But I'm not Apple or Intel am I?
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 06:30 PM   #106
manu chao
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Originally Posted by rmwebs View Post

Around $65 of the price goes just on licensing Thunderbolt, USB 3.0 and Firewire.
Apple has stopped charging for FW licences for many, many years already. There is a patent pool which charges 25c per device.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 06:30 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by rmwebs View Post
Yup. Fine under bootcamp. I've tried 5 different (branded) hubs - all of them were useless on OS X.
So it's an Apple OSX problem, not a USB 3.0 problem?
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 06:43 PM   #108
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It's a bit of an expensive treat, but for me who has the original 27" LED monitor and using a Hengedock for my Macbook Air, it would be cheaper to buy this thing than the Thunderbolt Monitor, especially considering I'm keen on the Ethernet port and extra USB3 ports.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 06:46 PM   #109
Richdmoore
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Originally Posted by LimeiBook86 View Post
I have 2011 iMac that runs great. I am not going to buy a new machine for a few years. This dock would give me the ability to potentially use USB 3.0 ports on my older machine. If so, then it may be worth the $350 ($50 for the thunderbolt cable which isn't included) to gain some USB 3.0 connectivity. eSATA would be nice to have, but at least they didn't axe USB 3.0.

Honestly though, if there was say a $49 (or even $99) Thunderbolt to USB 3.0 adapter available, I would buy it instantly.
Me too. All of us 2011 iMac owners want is a way to add USB 3 (with a passthru for continuing the chain); our computers already have ports for all the other stuff.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 07:02 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Trik View Post
Seriously... I'll be playing a new Duke Nukem before I see this thing...
Why would you want to play a new Duke Nukem after the abysmal "Forever"?
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 07:13 PM   #111
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Supposing this is still made in a couple year's time, I see it as a good way to extend the lifespan of my 2011 iMac thanks to extra USB3 ports.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 07:18 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Drag'nGT View Post
I just want a $50 thunderbolt enclosure. You can't make a product/accessory popular with ridiculous pricing this far after it's launch.
Sure you can. Why? Cause there's no other accessories.

Thunderbolt is the new firewire.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 07:34 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by ericinboston View Post
You're telling us that the iMac, which came out in August 1998, somehow had USB ports/technology before USB 1.0 was released in January 1996?

Ummmmmmm....

But regardless, My Win98 system (released before iMac) was using USB....and I am pretty sure my old Win95 Micron machine was using USB because I recall I didn't want to upgrade to Win98.
If so it was a rare one. Few USB devices made it to market until USB 1.1, released in August 1998, which fixed problems identified in 1.0, mostly relating to hubs. 1.1 was the earliest revision to be widely adopted. Which means that you were most likely one of the few people in the country that knew about and had USB before August 1998.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 08:27 PM   #114
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Awesome!

My new 27" iMac on my desk. A power cable and a Thunderbolt cable visible, snaking into my under-desk area. A second 27" display along side with only a single cable visible from it. My speakers, ethernet, page scanner, Matias keyboard, occasional-use external Bluray writer, and legacy Firewire 800 LaCie backup RAID all connected below, out of sight. Nice and clean!

All ports on my iMac available as-needed for thumb drives or cameras or memory cards or...

Nice. Clean. And what exactly is this eSATA that everyone is whining about? Really?

I know a few Mac users that have eSATA drives and such. They tend to be Mac Pro owners, since eSATA is easy to use on a tower. But, without hacking an iMac or mini, I'd be interested in hearing just how many iMac, mini, Air, or Macbook Pro owners actually use eSATA on a daily basis. And, how they use it so that eSATA is mission critical.

Not a challenge - just a question.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kg-nc View Post
If I'm going to walk away from the table with this thing on it I would think there should be a security slot. Did I miss it?
Please specify the table location and your intended time of use.

I promise nothing will happen to it while you go wee-wee.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmwebs View Post
All of them have worked fine if you plug just 1 external (powered) drive in, but the second you plug anything else in, the connections become unstable and are dropped. I thought it was a power issue, so tried beefier power supplies but its not - it only happens under OS X so it must be just a completely crap USB 3.0 implementation on Apple's part.
In the distant past, Apple was guilty of supplying the minimal allowable power to the collective USB ports on any given machine. The debut of the USB charging iPods largely eliminated this practice, as the draw was the maximum allowed and would therefore unboot all other USB devices. Some Apple systems had a single port that had its own power feed with the others sharing a power feed. But, after a short while Apple got it right and now supplies more than the minimum spec for USB power.

If connected devices DRAW as much as they are allowed (some - especially hard drives - draw more as they boot up) that could cause a problem. But, I would point the finger at the peripheral manufacturer, as they can certainly manage their power draw and peak consumption and therefore leave the rest of the USB chain in good order.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 08:32 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Trik View Post
Seriously... I'll be playing a new Duke Nukem before I see this thing...
That's cute, but it has probably just taken a long time for all the research, development and manufacturing. If they're saying Q1 this year, I'm sure it's pretty much done.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 08:32 PM   #116
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I understand removing eSata, but they should include 2x FireWire 800 ports. The only reason to use FireWire today over USB 3.0 or eSata, is the daisychain effect.

Of course, you can daisychain with Thunderbolt, but Mac users are not there yet, we are today daisychaining with FireWire.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 08:36 PM   #117
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I will be buying one of these ASAP. Heck, I own a TBD but the prospect of hiding all these things in my awesome desk is something I am looking forward to.

And no, you can't have my paychecks.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 08:39 PM   #118
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was debating between this and the matrox for work. my non-retina mbp has all ports used up right now and I'd like to only have to plug in 2 cables (TB & USB->DisplayLink) vs. 5 (ethernet, FW800, USB->hub, TB, and USB->Kensington DisplayLink).

When the belkin was $400, it wasn't a question - I was going with the Matrox and maybe connect my HDD via USB 3.0 instead of FW800. But for $300, $50 more seems more reasonable to get my FW800 back.

That being said, if belkin keeps delaying, I may just bite the bullet and go with Matrox anyways.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 09:33 PM   #119
rturner2
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Almost there...

Kill the Firewire port and add 1 or 2 extra USB3.

Make it support two non thunderbolt monitors from the hub (not sure if it does this already).

I don't need eSATA so this is great.

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Need Windows 8 support :-)
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 09:44 PM   #120
bigwig
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If Apple gets with the program and starts making a Cinema Display with USB 3.0 ports I don't see much use for this product.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 09:57 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by willcapellaro View Post
I think HDMI itself can do 1920x1200. Not sure about Matrox hub though.
If i'm going from MiniDP to DP on a 2560x1440 I think it should outpout that much.

I've hear the matrox is limited to 1920x1200
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 10:54 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by dazey View Post
Perhaps I am completely missing the point of this device but I don't understand who this device is for?!
I have a macbook air, it has audio I/O, it has USB3, it has thunderbolt. It is missing ethernet (but I can add it with a relatively inexpensive and more importantly portable dongle). It doesn't have firewire, but its a portable machine, I have other machines with firewire, I can live without it on this machine (or add it with another small dongle).

I have a mac mini. It has every single port on this device. The only port it didn't have was esata (which they deleted). Mine now has 4 esata ports courtesy of lacie bridges.

I just don't get it?!
I don't either. If you don't have USB 3, then you have FW800. And if you have the most recent non-retina MBP you have FW800, USB 3, ethernet and Thunderbolt. Plus a DVD burner. The Airs and Retinas are really quite annoying in their feature set of ports. If you're silly enough to have bought a retina display for an extra grand vs. having dedicated ethernet, fW800 and a burner, then maybe you need to spend and extra $300 just to get the ports back that the $1000 cheaper models have built in. Ridiculous.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeandrodaFL View Post
I understand removing eSata, but they should include 2x FireWire 800 ports. The only reason to use FireWire today over USB 3.0 or eSata, is the daisychain effect.

Of course, you can daisychain with Thunderbolt, but Mac users are not there yet, we are today daisychaining with FireWire.
Not in my world. We need TB or eSata to edit HD video. The only thing I'm using FW for is field capture. We dump our cards to a LaCie rugged. My rugged happens to have FW800, FW800 and USB 3 so I'm pretty good.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjlafrance View Post
Sure you can. Why? Cause there's no other accessories.

Thunderbolt is the new firewire.
You're right. It is. FW replaced expensive SCSI controllers for expensive SCSI raid drives.

Thunderbolt has replaced expensive eSATA Raid cards (over $400) with a solution that has 4x the throughput on a similarly priced TB raid, and is built into a laptop for no additional cost.

What's the problem?

USB 3 is what you're looking for if you're looking for cheap enclosures and cheap drives.
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 12:07 AM   #123
SicMX
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I need this and am willing to pay $299 for it

My Macbook Pro retina is connected via two Thunderbolt ports to two 27" Eizo screens. As we speak I have no way of connecting any Firewire hard drives so I had buy the Lacie 2big Thunderbolt and Lacie Little Big Disk Thunderbolt. This was expensive as hell, but the speed is unbelievable! Especially the Lacie LBD which is working at 500-600mb/s!!

The only problem is that i also have a Nikon 8000ED Coolscan for scanning my 6x6 and 6x7 film which uses exclusively Firewire which I now can't use without disconnecting one of the monitors and using the Firewire/Thunderbolt adapter. Same thing with the Ethernet that I would normally use.

In conclusion, I'm really really looking forward to this Belkin dock!

PS. The dock will obviously also make it quicker to connect my MBP to the 2 monitors, 2 printers, keyboard, mouse, 4 thunderbolt hard drives, 2 USB 3.0 backup hard drives, 2 film scanners and speakers
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 12:15 AM   #124
GermanyChris
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Originally Posted by btbeme View Post
Awesome!

My new 27" iMac on my desk. A power cable and a Thunderbolt cable visible, snaking into my under-desk area. A second 27" display along side with only a single cable visible from it. My speakers, ethernet, page scanner, Matias keyboard, occasional-use external Bluray writer, and legacy Firewire 800 LaCie backup RAID all connected below, out of sight. Nice and clean!

All ports on my iMac available as-needed for thumb drives or cameras or memory cards or...

Nice. Clean. And what exactly is this eSATA that everyone is whining about? Really?

I know a few Mac users that have eSATA drives and such. They tend to be Mac Pro owners, since eSATA is easy to use on a tower. But, without hacking an iMac or mini, I'd be interested in hearing just how many iMac, mini, Air, or Macbook Pro owners actually use eSATA on a daily basis. And, how they use it so that eSATA is mission critical.

Not a challenge - just a question.

----------



Please specify the table location and your intended time of use.

I promise nothing will happen to it while you go wee-wee.

----------



In the distant past, Apple was guilty of supplying the minimal allowable power to the collective USB ports on any given machine. The debut of the USB charging iPods largely eliminated this practice, as the draw was the maximum allowed and would therefore unboot all other USB devices. Some Apple systems had a single port that had its own power feed with the others sharing a power feed. But, after a short while Apple got it right and now supplies more than the minimum spec for USB power.

If connected devices DRAW as much as they are allowed (some - especially hard drives - draw more as they boot up) that could cause a problem. But, I would point the finger at the peripheral manufacturer, as they can certainly manage their power draw and peak consumption and therefore leave the rest of the USB chain in good order.
I have an eSATA express card for my MBP as all my external drives are eSATA
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 01:30 AM   #125
Mark Booth
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Interested if it has eSATA ports. Not interested if it doesn't have eSATA ports.

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