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Old Jan 9, 2013, 12:31 AM   #1
alecmcmahon
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Mixing Ram?

I've got a 27" imac on order w/ standard 8 gig of ram ( 2 x 4gb )


If I purchase a 16gig kit from owc ram ( 2 x8gb ) and the iMac 27" has 4 total ram slots, can I still utilize all ram sticks:

8gb owc
8gb owc
4gb apple
4gb apple

total = 24gb ram


any issues? or do all the sticks have to be " matching "

Thanks
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 12:33 AM   #2
GGJstudios
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alecmcmahon View Post
I've got a 27" imac on order w/ standard 8 gig of ram ( 2 x 4gb )


If I purchase a 16gig kit from owc ram ( 2 x8gb ) and the iMac 27" has 4 total ram slots, can I still utilize all ram sticks:

8gb owc
8gb owc
4gb apple
4gb apple

total = 24gb ram


any issues? or do all the sticks have to be " matching "
No, they don't all have to be the same brand or capacity. There is a slight performance benefit in using matched pairs, which you have, but as long as the specs are appropriate, you're fine.

MR Guide to Matched RAM on Intel Macs
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 12:48 AM   #3
WrrN
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I did the same with ram, ordered 8 and added 16. I left the original 4's in the slots they were in and added the new 8's to the vacant slots.

Have kept an eye on the memory in iStat Menus and all seems good. I ordered Crucial btw.
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 12:44 PM   #4
roverma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WrrN View Post
I did the same with ram, ordered 8 and added 16. I left the original 4's in the slots they were in and added the new 8's to the vacant slots.

Have kept an eye on the memory in iStat Menus and all seems good. I ordered Crucial btw.
To get full dual channel performance you have to rearrange the dimms:
Put the two 4 gig dimms your imac came with in one bank and the new 8 gigs together in the other bank

System report must look like this:
Bank 0 4 gig dimm
Bank 0 4 gig dimm
Bank 1 8 gig dimm
Bank 1 8 gig dimm

Read this thread for more info:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1499124
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 12:47 PM   #5
Bear
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roverma View Post
To get full dual channel performance you have to rearrange the dimms:
Put the two 4 gig dimms your imac came with in one bank and the new 8 gigs together in the other bank

System report must look like this:
Bank 0 4 gig dimm
Bank 0 4 gig dimm
Bank 1 8 gig dimm
Bank 1 8 gig dimm
I believe this is incorrect. In a dual channel system, one bank goes to each channel. I believe the proper setup would be:
Bank 0/DIMM 0: 4 GB
Bank 1/DIMM 0: 4 GB
Bank 0/DIMM 1: 8 GB
Bank 1/DIMM 1: 8 GB
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 12:59 PM   #6
roverma
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Originally Posted by Bear View Post
I believe this is incorrect. In a dual channel system, one bank goes to each channel. I believe the proper setup would be:
Bank 0/DIMM 0: 4 GB
Bank 1/DIMM 0: 4 GB
Bank 0/DIMM 1: 8 GB
Bank 1/DIMM 1: 8 GB
You are wrong, read the other thread!
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 01:06 PM   #7
Bear
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Originally Posted by roverma View Post
You are wrong, read the other thread!
Of the various memory related threads, some clearly show what I posted as the way to do it. One of the others had people disagreeing on which was correct.

There was nothing on Apple's support site I could find to document this one way or the other.
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 01:09 PM   #8
roverma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear View Post
Of the various memory related threads, some clearly show what I posted as the way to do it. One of the others had people disagreeing on which was correct.

There was nothing on Apple's support site I could find to document this one way or the other.
No, what you ( and the others you quote for that matter) posted is wrong!!

Google Intel's dual channel specification or read the Wikipedia article mentioned in the other thread!!

(It's Intel cpu technology, so searching Apple support site won't give you the answer obviously......)

Last edited by roverma; Jan 9, 2013 at 01:19 PM.
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 01:19 PM   #9
Bear
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Originally Posted by roverma View Post
No, what you ( and the others you quote for that matter) posted is wrong!!

Google Intel's dual channel specification or read the Wikipedia article mentioned in the other thread!!

(It's Intel cpu technology, so searching Apple support site won't give you the answer obviously......)
What I wish we had was something official from Apple.
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 01:22 PM   #10
themcfly
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I think Apple would be really dumb sending the stock 8GB not arranged in dual channel.

So i just added crucial 8GB x 2 in the free slots. Didn't even bother checking the slot/bank thingy, just works great and I'm happy the way it is.

Apple sends the stock 8GB in DIMM0 (Bank0 + Bank1). Trusting them, i think that's the right way to achieve dual channel.
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 01:28 PM   #11
roverma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear View Post
What I wish we had was something official from Apple.
Not needed, just check the FACTS, the technology is perfectly explained by Intel
In various papers , just google it.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by themcfly View Post
I think apple would be really dumb sending the stock 8GB not arranged in dual channel.

So i just added crucial 8GB x 2 in the free slots and i think that's the right way to get dual channel. Didn't even bother checking the slot/bank thingy, just works great and I'm happy the way it is.
Man, read the other thread, you clearly have no clue what dual channel means....
( sorry getting a bit annoyed from explaining the obvious)
Why do you people refuse to read the Intel paper in which dual channel is clearly explained (with samples)
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 01:51 PM   #12
roverma
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Last try

According INTEL specification:
In order to perform optimal each channel has to contain dimms with equal amounts of ram
The stock iMac has a 4 gig dimm in each channel ( bank 0 and bank 1) correct, as long as you don't add dimms with different amount of ram.
If you add an 8 gig dimm in each bank the dimms per bank are not the same amount (namely 4 and 8)
In order to obtain optimum dual channel performance you have to put the 4 gig dimms in one channel (bank 0 ) and the two 8 gigs in the other bank/channel
So you can add two 4 gig dimms in the free slots of an stock iMac, but if you are going to add two 8 gig dimms you have to rearrange: the two 4 gigs in bank 0 and the two 8 gigs in bank 1

Last edited by roverma; Jan 9, 2013 at 02:01 PM.
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 09:25 PM   #13
WrrN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roverma View Post
According INTEL specification:
In order to perform optimal each channel has to contain dimms with equal amounts of ram
The stock iMac has a 4 gig dimm in each channel ( bank 0 and bank 1) correct, as long as you don't add dimms with different amount of ram.
If you add an 8 gig dimm in each bank the dimms per bank are not the same amount (namely 4 and 8)
In order to obtain optimum dual channel performance you have to put the 4 gig dimms in one channel (bank 0 ) and the two 8 gigs in the other bank/channel
So you can add two 4 gig dimms in the free slots of an stock iMac, but if you are going to add two 8 gig dimms you have to rearrange: the two 4 gigs in bank 0 and the two 8 gigs in bank 1
Okay, I'm really trying to wrap my mind around this. I feel like you have contradicted yourself, but I may be lacking mind-power right now. Your last statement (quoted), says that the DIMMs must have equal ram. My SySInfo window shows this:

which leads me to believe that my memory is physically configured correctly -- The DIMMs have equal amounts, not the BANKs having equal amounts.

Please let me know if my brain is needing a boost.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 02:11 AM   #14
Helmigurt
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Originally Posted by WrrN View Post
Okay, I'm really trying to wrap my mind around this. I feel like you have contradicted yourself, but I may be lacking mind-power right now. Your last statement (quoted), says that the DIMMs must have equal ram. My SySInfo window shows this:
Image
which leads me to believe that my memory is physically configured correctly -- The DIMMs have equal amounts, not the BANKs having equal amounts.

Please let me know if my brain is needing a boost.
I give you a boost: The channels are the banks, so bank 1 needs the same amount of RAM in DIMM (=slot) 0 and 1. The RAM is configured wrong in your iMac because Bank 0 uses one 4GB and one 8GB.

On a technical level think of the Banks as something like RAID set up. To have this working correctly Intel needs the same sizes per bank.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 08:53 AM   #15
WrrN
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Originally Posted by Helmigurt View Post
I give you a boost: The channels are the banks, so bank 1 needs the same amount of RAM in DIMM (=slot) 0 and 1. The RAM is configured wrong in your iMac because Bank 0 uses one 4GB and one 8GB.

On a technical level think of the Banks as something like RAID set up. To have this working correctly Intel needs the same sizes per bank.
Got it, thanks.

So this raises the question ... why would Apple do it this way at the factory?
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 10:35 AM   #16
myc6toy
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I have a quick question about 27" iMac Ram

I ordered min with 16GB.

Will it be 2x8 GB or 4x4 GB ?

I want to up it to 32Gb but don't want to order 2x16GB and only end up having to get 2 more.

Thanks
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 12:21 PM   #17
roverma
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Originally Posted by myc6toy View Post
I have a quick question about 27" iMac Ram

I ordered min with 16GB.

Will it be 2x8 GB or 4x4 GB ?

I want to up it to 32Gb but don't want to order 2x16GB and only end up having to get 2 more.

Thanks
Can you read?........
It clearly says in the apple store that the 16Gb is 2x8
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 01:57 PM   #18
myc6toy
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Originally Posted by roverma View Post
Can you read?........
It clearly says in the apple store that the 16Gb is 2x8
Tanks !!
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 04:34 PM   #19
badman08
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Originally Posted by WrrN View Post
Got it, thanks.

So this raises the question ... why would Apple do it this way at the factory?
This is a very interesting question...
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 06:37 PM   #20
Gogol
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Ok, I now have:

Bank 0/DIMM0 : 8GB
Bank 1/DIMM0 : 4GB
Bank 0/DIMM1 : 8GB
Bank 1/DIMM1 : 4GB

and XBench memory test shows 10% better performance.
+1 for @roverma

Still the question remains: why has someone put 2x4GB in different banks?
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 10:32 PM   #21
WrrN
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Originally Posted by Gogol View Post
Ok, I now have:

Bank 0/DIMM0 : 8GB
Bank 1/DIMM0 : 4GB
Bank 0/DIMM1 : 8GB
Bank 1/DIMM1 : 4GB

and XBench memory test shows 10% better performance.
+1 for @roverma

Still the question remains: why has someone put 2x4GB in different banks?
When you say "someone," are you referring to a factory assembler/tech?
This is indeed an interesting question.
I guess I need to power down and reassign my RAM to new slots.
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 12:40 AM   #22
themcfly
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Originally Posted by Gogol View Post
Ok, I now have:

Bank 0/DIMM0 : 8GB
Bank 1/DIMM0 : 4GB
Bank 0/DIMM1 : 8GB
Bank 1/DIMM1 : 4GB

and XBench memory test shows 10% better performance.
+1 for @roverma

Still the question remains: why has someone put 2x4GB in different banks?
that's strange... I tried it yesterday, both ways, xbench + geekbench, perfectly aligned results.
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 01:56 AM   #23
roverma
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Originally Posted by Gogol View Post
Ok, I now have:

Bank 0/DIMM0 : 8GB
Bank 1/DIMM0 : 4GB
Bank 0/DIMM1 : 8GB
Bank 1/DIMM1 : 4GB

and XBench memory test shows 10% better performance.
+1 for @roverma

Still the question remains: why has someone put 2x4GB in different banks?
Okay, that 10% difference is to be expected according to Intel papers....
Apple ships with only 2 modules, one in bank 0 and the other in bank 1
With only 2 modules it doesn't matter where they put them as long as they are the same amount ram in both banks.....

Last edited by roverma; Jan 11, 2013 at 02:25 AM.
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 02:48 AM   #24
themcfly
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Originally Posted by roverma View Post
Okay, that 10% difference is to be expected according to Intel papers....
Apple ships with only 2 modules, one in bank 0 and the other in bank 1
With only 2 modules it doesn't matter where they put them as long as they are the same amount ram in both banks.....
this seems somewhat contradicting... one time you say it has to match the amount of ram in paired banks to achieve dual channel (8gb in both banks 1 + 4gb in both banks 0) but here you say that it does not matter, as long as there is the same amount in both different banks (4gb in bank 0 + bank 1, like apple ships them).
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 04:49 AM   #25
Gogol
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Originally Posted by themcfly View Post
this seems somewhat contradicting... one time you say it has to match the amount of ram in paired banks to achieve dual channel (8gb in both banks 1 + 4gb in both banks 0) but here you say that it does not matter, as long as there is the same amount in both different banks (4gb in bank 0 + bank 1, like apple ships them).
But you see what happens if the user uses the empty slots with different kind of memory. I knew about dual channel and I assumed Apple would put the standard RAM in the same bank. I did not check it!

BTW: I have Kingston KTA 1600/8GB.
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