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Old Mar 11, 2014, 04:39 AM   #1
SimonDK
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Next purchase dilemma

Hi guys,

I have just sold my Canon kit and I want to make my bag lighter, I have spent every spare minute of the last few weeks online looking at sample photos and reviews and have 2 choices to make.

M240 with either a 50mm 1.4 Summilux or 21mm 1.8 Voigtlander and 50mm 1.5 Voigtlander.

or

A7R with Leica 50mm Summilux and 21mm 1.8 Voigtlander.

I already have a RX1 and love it, I would be sad to see it go, but could perhaps sell for another lens.

My first priority is to shoot Street and Live Club/Music but do like all other forms of photography but I am not fussed with action.

So I need low light capabilities, hence the fast glass.
I would some times want to have a slow shutter speed, so shutter shake might be an issue.

I have never touched a rangefinder camera.

I am concerned with cleaning the M240 sensor.

I am concerned with the colour rendition of the A7R

My thinking for getting the A7R and M mount lenses is I would like in the future to get the Leica Monochrome.

I have made my head spin a bit, and the wife is fed up of my intense gaze on the laptop.

I realise that I am just setting myself up for more head spinning, but I do like the opinions of this forums members
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Old Mar 11, 2014, 04:51 AM   #2
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I appreciate your desire for good glass on a camera but you might look into some other cameras such as the Olympus line and Fuji X series.
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Old Mar 11, 2014, 04:53 AM   #3
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beware of A7R light leaks

http://community.sony.com/t5/Alpha-N...ks/td-p/254835
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Old Mar 11, 2014, 04:59 AM   #4
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page not found 404
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Old Mar 11, 2014, 05:00 AM   #5
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page not found 404
this was an actual page, I had started a thread about it, short lived though, maybe that was the reason why
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Old Mar 11, 2014, 08:16 AM   #6
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The Sony a7r viewfinder is terrible in low light conditions.
If you know that you will not shoot video and you have the cash i would take a very close look at the Nikon Df.
The Df is the best low light camera on the market. Its pretty light and also looks awesome.
If you want to shoot video I would take another close look at the D610.
Its not as light as the Sony a7r but its cheaper and still pretty light.
Also the lens choice for sony is very limited.
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Old Mar 11, 2014, 08:31 AM   #7
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We are moving to M43 and selling off our two 40lb bags of canon DSLR equipment. We are each going with Olympus EM-1 with Oly glass with the addition of the Panasonic 100-300. We mostly shoot landscapes and wildlife. The lens collection will not be complete until Olympus finishes releasing the new Pro lenses late next year.

Good luck with your migration to mirrorless!
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Old Mar 11, 2014, 09:15 AM   #8
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I appreciate your desire for good glass on a camera but you might look into some other cameras such as the Olympus line and Fuji X series.
must admit was thinking fuji x100(s) reading that description form the OP
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Old Mar 11, 2014, 09:22 AM   #9
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must admit was thinking fuji x100(s) reading that description form the OP
+1 Fuji X100s
http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/comp...ikon/index.htm
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Old Mar 11, 2014, 09:35 AM   #10
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I have only read good things of the Fuji X100s, but as I have a Sony RX1 I don't see the need for it.

I am looking for a interchangeable lens camera, thats why the M240 and the A7r appeal.

I also like the horsepower of a full frame camera, as I have had some recent shots of music artists published in magazines.

I appreciate the advice on other options, but I have my heart set on the 2 options I set out in the post
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Old Mar 11, 2014, 10:39 AM   #11
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I got banned today from a photography facebook group for verbally not accepting that MFT/mirrorless are viable solutions for the pro market

Pro only, not enthusiasts. I even submitted link with pro use statistics.

I will definitely not get into this here too
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Old Mar 11, 2014, 10:47 AM   #12
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I got banned today from a photography facebook group for verbally not accepting that MFT/mirrorless are viable solutions for the pro market

Pro only, not enthusiasts. I even submitted link with pro use statistics.

I will definitely not get into this here too
Im listening

All I have to say is I don't consider myself a pro, just someone who likes to take photographs.
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Old Mar 11, 2014, 10:58 AM   #13
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Im listening

All I have to say is I don't consider myself a pro, just someone who likes to take photographs.
most people will suggest that you would be better off with MFT or mirrorless especially cost wise. Most probably, they will be right, but it also depends on where and how soon you see yourself going with photography
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Old Mar 11, 2014, 11:09 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by MCAsan View Post
The lens collection will not be complete until Olympus finishes releasing the new Pro lenses late next year.

Good luck with that[1]!

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ten-br....html?page=all

#6...

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[1] I hope you like Sigma! ;-)
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Old Mar 11, 2014, 12:40 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by needfx View Post
most people will suggest that you would be better off with MFT or mirrorless especially cost wise. Most probably, they will be right, but it also depends on where and how soon you see yourself going with photography
So do you think the 2 options I am going for won't produce high quality images?

I have a budget of about 7000 but I just don't want the heft of a DSLR, and being that I just sold the following -

Canon 5D mkIII
Canon 50mm 1.2
Canon 14mm 2.8 II
Canon 70-200mm isII

Carrying that in my bag with a laptop and other bits and pieces is just too much, on a recent trip I took 80%+ shots with my RX1 and the only thing I missed was a change of lens, the image quality of the RX1 is perfect for me.
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Old Mar 11, 2014, 02:19 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonDK View Post
So do you think the 2 options I am going for won't produce high quality images?

I have a budget of about 7000 but I just don't want the heft of a DSLR, and being that I just sold the following -

Canon 5D mkIII
Canon 50mm 1.2
Canon 14mm 2.8 II
Canon 70-200mm isII

Carrying that in my bag with a laptop and other bits and pieces is just too much, on a recent trip I took 80%+ shots with my RX1 and the only thing I missed was a change of lens, the image quality of the RX1 is perfect for me.
you would be better off asking about image quality someone who owns/had owned such a camera

I can't really comment with hands on experience
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Old Mar 11, 2014, 02:34 PM   #17
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You'll learn a lot more about the A7 over at the dpreview Sony NEX/Alpha forum, from people who are actually using the A7:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/1042?...t&ref=mainmenu

I imagine that there are also dpreview forums that cover the other cameras you're interested in.

The idea that mirrorless cameras are unsuitable for professional use will be news to the professionals who are using them. I also think that the notion that a serious enthusiast won't find them of high-enough quality is absurd. However, that doesn't mean that the particular cameras you mention are necessarily the best choices for what you want to do.

I researched for months before I pulled the trigger last fall on a Sony NEX 6, which was what my budget would allow. I used a 35 mm SLR from 1996 to 2001, but switched to digital point-and-shoots because of the size and weight advantage. When I decided to get back into more serious photography, I strongly considered getting a DSLR, until I remembered lugging around my SLR and a backback full of lenses. Better DSLRs currently have the advantage when it comes to autofocus speed, and you have more controls on the camera body, but I failed to find any evidence that DSLRs as a class of camera have an image-quality advantage over mirrorless cameras. There are differences from model to model, of course, but mostly it comes down to sensor, lenses, and image-processing algorithms used by the camera manufacturers. Electronic vs. optical viewfinder comes down to personal preference; each has its advantages and disadvantages.

There is no evidence yet that the A7 light leak is a problem that affects more than a handful of cameras, or even that it's a true problem. A few people have found it by shining a flashlight at the camera with its lens cap on for 20 to 30 seconds at ISO 25600, if I recall correctly, which isn't a real-world situation. Others have not been able to replicate it. There is one purported real-world photo making the rounds. If it's legitimate, then it indeed would indicate a faulty camera. There's a long thread about the subject, so you can read it and judge for yourself.

When I was researching, I got caught up in the technical minutae that was debated in the forums and in reviews. What I finally realized is that there's no perfect camera, and that whatever you buy will be replaced by something better next year. I wanted an Olympus OMD EM-1, primarily because of the weather sealing, but it was $1,000 more than the NEX 6. Then the A7 was announced, and I wanted that, but it was $1,200 more than the NEX 6. Now I want $3,000 - $4,000 worth of lenses for my NEX 6, which I can't afford. By the time I can, I probably will be able to afford a Sony A8 or A9, so I might as well wait for a full-frame camera before I start investing in lenses. Then I bring myself down to earth by realizing that I'm taking wonderful photos with my NEX 6 and 16-50 mm kit lens. And when I checked out some DSLRs at the store recently, they seemed enormous. I have no regrets about getting a mirrorless camera.

Anyway, good luck on whatever you choose.
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Old Mar 11, 2014, 02:48 PM   #18
Meister
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonDK View Post
So do you think the 2 options I am going for won't produce high quality images?

I have a budget of about 7000 but I just don't want the heft of a DSLR, andbeing that I just sold the following -

Canon 5D mkIII
Canon 50mm 1.2
Canon 14mm 2.8 II
Canon 70-200mm isII
Carrying that in my bag with a laptop and other bits and pieces is just too much, on a recent trip I took 80%+ shots with my RX1 and the only thing I missed was a change of lens, the image quality of the RX1 is perfect for me.
you sold a mighty nice setup just at the right time and for reasons important to you.
From everything you wrote so far it seems like you know your stuff and what you want.
Your two options look very good and should produce excellent images.
Don't get distracted by mft talk. Go and test the leica and Sony.
I would wait also for the Sony light leak to be sorted.
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Old Mar 13, 2014, 01:28 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonDK View Post
Hi guys,

I have just sold my Canon kit and I want to make my bag lighter, I have spent every spare minute of the last few weeks online looking at sample photos and reviews and have 2 choices to make.

M240 with either a 50mm 1.4 Summilux or 21mm 1.8 Voigtlander and 50mm 1.5 Voigtlander.

or

A7R with Leica 50mm Summilux and 21mm 1.8 Voigtlander.

I already have a RX1 and love it, I would be sad to see it go, but could perhaps sell for another lens.

My first priority is to shoot Street and Live Club/Music but do like all other forms of photography but I am not fussed with action.

So I need low light capabilities, hence the fast glass.
I would some times want to have a slow shutter speed, so shutter shake might be an issue.

I have never touched a rangefinder camera.

I am concerned with cleaning the M240 sensor.

I am concerned with the colour rendition of the A7R

My thinking for getting the A7R and M mount lenses is I would like in the future to get the Leica Monochrome.

I have made my head spin a bit, and the wife is fed up of my intense gaze on the laptop.

I realise that I am just setting myself up for more head spinning, but I do like the opinions of this forums members
M240, WITHOUT QUESTION.

If you go with the A7R, go with the native glass.

But if you have the budget for the M240, it is undoubtedly the better camera.
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Old Mar 13, 2014, 05:02 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonDK View Post
So do you think the 2 options I am going for won't produce high quality images?

I have a budget of about 7000 but I just don't want the heft of a DSLR, and being that I just sold the following -

Canon 5D mkIII
Canon 50mm 1.2
Canon 14mm 2.8 II
Canon 70-200mm isII

Carrying that in my bag with a laptop and other bits and pieces is just too much, on a recent trip I took 80%+ shots with my RX1 and the only thing I missed was a change of lens, the image quality of the RX1 is perfect for me.
that.....was a mistake
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Old Mar 13, 2014, 06:06 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by SimonDK View Post
So do you think the 2 options I am going for won't produce high quality images?
Truthfully, there's little on the market today that won't produce "high quality" images. There are lots of alternatives for "higher quality images," but if you keep that out of your criteria you'll be fine. Check out sample raw files from your choices and if they're good enough for your intended usage and somewhat match your normal shooting conditions then that's all you need to worry about. Some of us (especially me) worry more about corner cases and abnormal shooting conditions than others- but if you're not neurotic about that or don't normally shoot in those sorts of conditions then you shouldn't worry about them.

For 2014-2015 I'm more worried about vendor longevity in the market than technical capability though. Links like the one I posted above from Yahoo Finance about Olympus likely disappearing as a brand in the next year and the state of the digital camera market would fuel my obsession more than a body that's going to be replaced in the next 2-3 years by a newer, better one. The advantage of MFT is that it's not predicated on the success of one vendor. The disadvantage is that none of its vendors are doing well at all, and they're nowhere near the top three, all of whom aren't doing well, but who may survive the next 5 years in spite of that. Given all that, I'd bet on Sony before anyone but Canon or Nikon- not because Sony is making money, but because they may stick it out anyway- even though the "making things" bits of Sony are all in the red and the content parts are all floating the other businesses. This end of fiscal year's annual reports this time around are all going to suck and it's going to be really difficult to read between the lines.

Paul
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Old Mar 14, 2014, 02:06 PM   #22
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I have only read good things of the Fuji X100s, but as I have a Sony RX1 I don't see the need for it.
We are not just referring to the X100s (which I happen to own), but Fuji has a bunch of interchangeable lens cameras based on the X-mount. The X-Pro 1, for instance, features the same type of hybrid viewfinder as the X100s, which may be interesting to you since you are considering a Leica. Basically, you'll get Leica's viewfinder for the 21st century, you can enable arbitrary overlays (artificial horizon, histogram, etc.) over the optical viewfinder and switch to a digital viewfinder (e. g. for pixel-precise manual focus).
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Old Mar 20, 2014, 07:30 AM   #23
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The issue of Pros using mirror less is about the same as saying all Pros use Nikon or Canon DSLRs. You can instances were it is true and where it is not true. The more general the statement....the less accurate it is. You can find Pros on the internet who are doing only mirror less.

I know of one Pro in South Africa who runs safaris. He has switched to M43 because of the huge drop in size and weight. He has the M43/43 bodies and lenses to do the wildlife and landscapes that are important to him.

For the wife and I the migration from DSLRs to M43is all about size and weight reduction. Better to be able to carry a M43 kit and get a shot, than to no longer be able to carry the DSLR kit and miss the shoot entirely.

Use whatever works for you. Get out there and shoot something!!!!!!
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