Register FAQ / Rules Forum Spy Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   MacRumors Forums > Apple Hardware > Apple TV and Home Theater

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Jan 10, 2013, 08:41 AM   #1
JMEANS
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
"What's wrong with this file?"

Ok File Analyzer experts I have attached a pic of an MKV file i was hoping to change the container to Mp4 with SUBLER, to use on my ATV2.

I keep getting the dreaded RED STOP SIGN however and i do not understand why? I thought it might be because there is only the 5.1 audio track included on the MKV so I dragged the audio in twice and Subler still went RED.

Just wondered what i am missing here? Any info would be greatly appreciated - JIM

JMEANS is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 10, 2013, 09:18 AM   #2
Pyromonkey83
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: May 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMEANS View Post
Ok File Analyzer experts I have attached a pic of an MKV file i was hoping to change the container to Mp4 with SUBLER, to use on my ATV2.

I keep getting the dreaded RED STOP SIGN however and i do not understand why? I thought it might be because there is only the 5.1 audio track included on the MKV so I dragged the audio in twice and Subler still went RED.

Just wondered what i am missing here? Any info would be greatly appreciated - JIM

Image
Its actually a bug with Subler thanks to Mountain Lion having screwy audio codecs. Download https://dl.dropbox.com/u/34821905/A5....component.zip and install it in /Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/Components and also in YOURUSERNAME/Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/Components and it should work fine.

Also download http://perian.cachefly.net/Perian_1.2.3.dmg and install it normally to be able to decode DTS audio files.

If you get confused or don't know what to do just follow the guide here: http://www.iphonelife.com/blog/87/co...8211;-part-iii

Last edited by Pyromonkey83; Jan 10, 2013 at 09:23 AM.
Pyromonkey83 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 10, 2013, 10:14 AM   #3
JMEANS
Thread Starter
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
wow thanks alot Pyro, SUPER confusing steps however, have no idea what i am doing lol

Last edited by JMEANS; Jan 10, 2013 at 10:35 AM.
JMEANS is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 10, 2013, 12:48 PM   #4
JMEANS
Thread Starter
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Everything is installed and I do not get the RED STOP SIGN, but now the 5.1 tracks (in various MKV files) turn out to STEREO ?!! Went over & over the directions and no matter what setting I check or whatever it still reduces the Audio to 2 channel ?!
JMEANS is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 10, 2013, 01:39 PM   #5
Idgit
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMEANS View Post
Everything is installed and I do not get the RED STOP SIGN, but now the 5.1 tracks (in various MKV files) turn out to STEREO ?!! Went over & over the directions and no matter what setting I check or whatever it still reduces the Audio to 2 channel ?!
In Subler, open a new empty window. When you add the MKV to Subler, select the AC-3 track drop-down menu and select Dolby Prologic II. Then add the MKV file a second time to the open window, de-select the video track and any other tracks except the AC-3 track. Click on the AC-3 track drop-down menu and select "Passthrough."

That way you'll keep the 5.1 surround sound track and create a 2-ch Dolby Prologic track which can "mimic" surround sound on some systems. This enables full compatibility with Apple TV and iTunes.

You don't want to convert the AC-3 5.1 track to AAC 5.1 because most receivers don't support it; instead they'll downmix it to stereo.
Idgit is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 10, 2013, 03:29 PM   #6
JMEANS
Thread Starter
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Thanks so much! I actually did that once or twice but didnt select the proper settings!

I assume with Perian installed these settings accommodate DTS as well?

Thanks again JIM
JMEANS is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 10, 2013, 03:32 PM   #7
Idgit
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMEANS View Post
Thanks so much! I actually did that once or twice but didnt select the proper settings!

I assume with Perian installed these settings accommodate DTS as well?

Thanks again JIM
Yes, but you may run into some problems by muxing a DTS tracking into a MP4/M4V container.

Also, once you've converted the audio, make sure the AC3 or DTS surround track is unchecked so the Apple TV and other apps don't get confused and try to play both tracks at the same time.
Idgit is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 10, 2013, 04:15 PM   #8
Pyromonkey83
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: May 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMEANS View Post
Thanks so much! I actually did that once or twice but didnt select the proper settings!

I assume with Perian installed these settings accommodate DTS as well?

Thanks again JIM
Subler will only accommodate converting to AAC, so you will have to find another program to convert your DTS audio to AC3 for use with the Apple TV if you want true surround sound.

If you are talking about housing the DTS core within an mp4 container I would strongly recommend against doing this. mp4 does not correctly support DTS cores within it's container like mkv does and you will end up with problems.
Pyromonkey83 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 10, 2013, 04:17 PM   #9
Idgit
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyromonkey83 View Post
Subler will only accommodate converting to AAC, so you will have to find another program to convert your DTS audio to AC3 for use with the Apple TV if you want true surround sound.

If you are talking about housing the DTS core within an mp4 container I would strongly recommend against doing this. mp4 does not correctly support DTS cores within it's container like mkv does and you will end up with problems.
If a movie file has DTS, I usually leave it in the MKV container. Sometimes I've used Handbrake to transcode the file and convert the DTS audio to AC-3 audio, but for some reason, the resulting files often have out-of-sync audio.
Idgit is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 10, 2013, 04:22 PM   #10
mic j
macrumors 68000
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyromonkey83 View Post
Subler will only accommodate converting to AAC, so you will have to find another program to convert your DTS audio to AC3 for use with the Apple TV if you want true surround sound.

If you are talking about housing the DTS core within an mp4 container I would strongly recommend against doing this. mp4 does not correctly support DTS cores within it's container like mkv does and you will end up with problems.
MP4Tools is a good app to do the DTS track conversion to AC3. You can then mux in the created track using Subler.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Idgit View Post
If a movie file has DTS, I usually leave it in the MKV container. Sometimes I've used Handbrake to transcode the file and convert the DTS audio to AC-3 audio, but for some reason, the resulting files often have out-of-sync audio.
Shouldn't be the case. I've HB transcoded a bunch of BR's containing DTS and never have had a problem with sync. You may want to post in the HB forum and try and get to the root cause of the audio sync issue. Of course, I assume you use the latest version of HB.
__________________
17" MBP '09, 2.66 GHz, 8GB RAM; 13" MBP (Retina) '12, 2.5GHz, 8GB RAM; iPad 2, 32GB; AE; TV 3; AEBS w 1TB Seagate HDD; 65" Mits DLP, Sony STR-DB1070 AVR
mic j is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 10, 2013, 04:25 PM   #11
Idgit
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by mic j View Post
Shouldn't be the case. I've HB transcoded a bunch of BR's containing DTS and never have had a problem with sync. You may want to post in the HB forum and try and get to the root cause of the audio sync issue. Of course, I assume you use the latest version of HB.
Good idea. I have a blu-ray rip of a 1970s horror film with DTS mono and I can't get an in-sync MP4 out of it.
Idgit is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 10, 2013, 04:30 PM   #12
mic j
macrumors 68000
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idgit View Post
Good idea. I have a blu-ray rip of a 1970s horror film with DTS mono and I can't get an in-sync MP4 out of it.
Just an idea, if it is consistently out of sync (same amount off at beginning and end of movie). You could take it in to Subler and change the audio offset.
__________________
17" MBP '09, 2.66 GHz, 8GB RAM; 13" MBP (Retina) '12, 2.5GHz, 8GB RAM; iPad 2, 32GB; AE; TV 3; AEBS w 1TB Seagate HDD; 65" Mits DLP, Sony STR-DB1070 AVR
mic j is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 10, 2013, 06:07 PM   #13
JMEANS
Thread Starter
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
The reason I brought up the DTS surround track in SUBLER is initially my original question. I had an MKV file that kept going RED STOP SIGN in SUBLER and member Pyro suggested I download Perian to process it in SUBLER which it did! However after processing the file, it changed the single Audio file (DTS 5.1) into a 2 stereo audio track.

Guess this is where I got confused with the Perian thing, because I thought that if you paired it with SUBLER it would convert the MKV file W/DTS 5.1 track into an iTunes compatible file that retained its 5.1 audio?
JMEANS is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11, 2013, 12:07 AM   #14
Pyromonkey83
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: May 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMEANS View Post
The reason I brought up the DTS surround track in SUBLER is initially my original question. I had an MKV file that kept going RED STOP SIGN in SUBLER and member Pyro suggested I download Perian to process it in SUBLER which it did! However after processing the file, it changed the single Audio file (DTS 5.1) into a 2 stereo audio track.

Guess this is where I got confused with the Perian thing, because I thought that if you paired it with SUBLER it would convert the MKV file W/DTS 5.1 track into an iTunes compatible file that retained its 5.1 audio?
To help break it down in one post:


You technically can have it convert the MKV to have true 5.1 Audio with Subler, but the problem is that it will be AAC 6-channel audio, which isn't supported by 99% of receivers (It will end up downmixed to an odd 3.0 audio according to dynaflash). The 2-channel audio you are getting is Dolby Pro Logic II which is technically stereo, but has algorithms to turn it into surround sound on compatible receivers.

What you want for true surround sound in an MP4 container (for Apple TVs) is AC3 audio. AC3 is Dolby Digital Surround (true 5.1) and is supported by pretty much every receiver on the planet. Unfortunately, Subler does not support downmixing to AC3 (it only supports AC3 pass thru if the file is already created), so you will need a different program to do this.

There are 2 very popular programs that can be used for this, each with pros and cons.

Handbrake: Probably the most popular re-encoding program on the planet, and definitely one of the best (if not the definitive best). The pros are the massive support behind the project, the open source nature, and the phenomenal devs behind the project. Handbrake has great presets for many Apple devices (Apple TVs, iPods, iOS devices) and they all work great as well. They also have excellent support and have tons of customizability functions for all h.264 funcitons.

The downsides to Handbrake are that you need to re-encode every file. This takes hours for each movie. There is no video pass-thru for "remuxing" so it will re-encode every frame, but this will often result in much smaller file sizes and a very small loss of quality (depending on the settings you choose).


MP4Tools: This is a very popular program for MP4 conversions. The benefit is that it supports Video Pass Thru and can "remux" like subler, meaning it takes less time and you get the best video quality. I should also note that this program can also be used to re-encode videos as well with H.264 encoding (like handbrake). This also supports making an AC3 5.1 audio channel as well as a 2-channel AAC audio channel for all Apple Products to support it.

The cons of MP4Tools is a general lack of customizability and the true amount of h.264 options. It also has nowhere near the amount of support that Handbrake has behind it. It also costs $5, but has a free version with a slightly annoying popup and some missing features (nothing major). I strongly recommend supporting our wonderful Devs however.


Either way, both programs will get you a compatible MP4 file and will get you both audio tracks (a 2-channel for stereo devices, and a true 5.1 channel for your surround sound). Whichever one you decide to use is up to you!

I hope this helps answer your questions and gets you where you want to go.

Last edited by Pyromonkey83; Jan 11, 2013 at 04:22 AM. Reason: clarity
Pyromonkey83 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11, 2013, 01:23 AM   #15
Idgit
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyromonkey83 View Post
Unfortunately, Subler does not support AC3 downmixing (it only supports AC3 pass thru), so you will need a different program to do this.
I'm not sure I follow. I use Subler all the time to create and mux in a 2-channel Dolby Prologic II audio track from a 5.1 AC3 track. Is that somehow different than "downmixing" an AC3 track?
Idgit is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11, 2013, 04:22 AM   #16
Pyromonkey83
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: May 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idgit View Post
I'm not sure I follow. I use Subler all the time to create and mux in a 2-channel Dolby Prologic II audio track from a 5.1 AC3 track. Is that somehow different than "downmixing" an AC3 track?
I suppose I should rephrase. What I meant is that Subler does not support downmixing a DTS file TO AC3. Subler can only down mix to AAC. To put it in layman's terms I mean that it can read AC3, but cannot "write" AC3.
Pyromonkey83 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11, 2013, 08:07 AM   #17
JMEANS
Thread Starter
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
wow guys what a lesson we have here! Learned a lot from from everyone, especially you PYRO! I did manage to get that 'stubborn' Led Zep: Song Remains Same MKV to switch containers in SUBLER using Perian without ANY quality or audio loss - FINALLY!

Added 2 audio tracks using the right settings as suggested by IDGIT and bam!!

At the end of the day I can now process pretty much all MKV's I had w/out RED STOP SIGN and now understand SUBLER functions a hell of alot better.

Not saying i know it all (want to learn how to merge/combine 2 MP4 or MKV's together next) but definitely appreciate all the help gentlemen!

Sincerely JIM MEANS
JMEANS is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11, 2013, 09:54 AM   #18
zepman
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Sweden
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMEANS View Post
Not saying i know it all (want to learn how to merge/combine 2 MP4 or MKV's together next) but definitely appreciate all the help gentlemen!
MP4Tools will do that for you.
__________________
13" Macbook Pro with Retina display (Late 2013), i5 2.4 GHz, 8 GB, 256 GB SSD; iPhone 4S 16 GB
zepman is online now   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11, 2013, 09:58 AM   #19
dynaflash
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
I would just add that Subler is written by one of the HandBrake devs (ritsuka). He wrote it to handle some things we chose not to add to HandBrake like remuxing, etc. In my opinion it is an excellent companion tool to HandBrake. Just sayin'
dynaflash is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11, 2013, 10:56 AM   #20
JMEANS
Thread Starter
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Thanks Zep & Dyna! I have used MP4Tools unsuccessfully in the past and find the settings rather confusing... when i drag a file in I am not always sure the pop-up preset is going to give me what I want?

99% of the time i just want to keep the integrity of the file, quality & size the same. So merging 2 files together might be even crazier.

But I will have to try it out.
JMEANS is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11, 2013, 11:14 AM   #21
mic j
macrumors 68000
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMEANS View Post
Thanks Zep & Dyna! I have used MP4Tools unsuccessfully in the past and find the settings rather confusing... when i drag a file in I am not always sure the pop-up preset is going to give me what I want?

99% of the time i just want to keep the integrity of the file, quality & size the same. So merging 2 files together might be even crazier.

But I will have to try it out.
It really does a good job at merging mp4's. Make sure you have the latest version. It was re-written, in beta for a while (smart!!), and the beta has just recently become the official release (v3.2, I think). This rewrite resulted in a much improved app (but it's all under the hood, it really doesn't look any different). If you want to merge at the mkv level, mkvtoolnix is excellent.
__________________
17" MBP '09, 2.66 GHz, 8GB RAM; 13" MBP (Retina) '12, 2.5GHz, 8GB RAM; iPad 2, 32GB; AE; TV 3; AEBS w 1TB Seagate HDD; 65" Mits DLP, Sony STR-DB1070 AVR
mic j is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 13, 2013, 08:09 AM   #22
JMEANS
Thread Starter
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Kind of a problem after converting my MKV with Subler(Perian) M4V files quality is matched contain two audio streams (one passthru & one Ac3) all without Handbreaking!

Result:
The 4 files i converted play inside iTunes - BUT will not play on the ATV2?!

They appear onscreen, look awesome but paused, won't play and the circle just keeps spinning...

: ( So close > Here's the Led Zep file (from top of thread) converted now:



Here's that same Led Zep file dragged into Subler so you can see the Subler properties. Any Ideas guys?


Last edited by JMEANS; Jan 13, 2013 at 09:00 AM.
JMEANS is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 13, 2013, 08:56 AM   #23
mic j
macrumors 68000
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Did you optimize the file (using Subler)?
__________________
17" MBP '09, 2.66 GHz, 8GB RAM; 13" MBP (Retina) '12, 2.5GHz, 8GB RAM; iPad 2, 32GB; AE; TV 3; AEBS w 1TB Seagate HDD; 65" Mits DLP, Sony STR-DB1070 AVR
mic j is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 13, 2013, 09:08 AM   #24
JMEANS
Thread Starter
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
no I will try!!
JMEANS is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 13, 2013, 09:24 AM   #25
JMEANS
Thread Starter
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
YES THANKS! It works now! I have optimized files in HB so larger files start sooner (thought that was all optimizing meant)

Didn't realize when bypassing HB you still had to check it in Subler to allow files to PLAY ?!

Guess i don't know all that optimizing does... It doesn't change the quality or whatever does it? I couldn't really tell.

Thanks again JIM
JMEANS is offline   0 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > Apple Hardware > Apple TV and Home Theater

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Can someone tell me the "last modified" date for their "sleepimage" file? Gary King OS X Mavericks (10.9) 6 Oct 31, 2013 11:45 AM
iCloud file sharing/syncing like "Dropbox"/"iDisk" bedifferent OS X Mavericks (10.9) 9 Sep 5, 2013 10:23 PM
OS X: CS:GO "command" + "left mouse click" causes "right mouse click" Whats wrong? oeppel Mac and PC Games 1 Apr 6, 2013 03:12 AM
Name of the "file open" / "save as" dialog box app? ancilla OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion 0 Sep 29, 2012 03:59 PM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:35 AM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC