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Old Jan 10, 2013, 07:37 PM   #76
CaptMike
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And for the 21.5"

Article states:

"compared to shorter but still substantial 7-10 day estimates for the smaller 21.5-inch models."

My 21.5" TOL model was ordered 12/15 and I'm being told up to 1 month of a wait.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 07:45 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by thekev View Post
In some cases it makes for more clutter, even if routing a bunch of cables can be annoying.
I don't see how it could ever be as bad as a tower. I cleaned out behind my desk just last week, and somehow...I dunno, I'm still trying to figure it out...all the speaker wires came together and formed this sorta giant cocoon-chamber-thing. It's was weird as hell and more than a little scary. I'm not ashamed to admit I was a little...

...perturbed.

Long story short, I ended up getting lost for about 2-3 days. Found myself in this strange place, far, far larger on the inside than out, and filled to the brim with giant spiders. Even weirder, there were other people there, all caught in the giant web woven by the giant spiders. It was a hellish experience.

Here's a shot of it I took with my iPhone.



That's Aunt Gladys on the left. We haven't seen her in months. The family figured she finally went senile on us and died in a ditch somewhere upstate. Turns out we were only half right.

Fortunately, I was able to find a old rusty sword to defend myself with. After much hacking, slashing, and other things I'm not proud to admit to doing, I managed to not only get out, but clean the space behind my desk.

...and that's when I decided to get an iMac.

Last edited by Renzatic; Jan 10, 2013 at 08:38 PM. Reason: I hate autocorrect
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 07:51 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by thekev View Post
Much of it comes down to implementation. Some companies make better use of these panels than others, but I suspect new panel designs will be available soon. Usually we'll a new major generation every 2-3 years from the display oems. I find the loss of VESA mounting capability to be kind of irritating. Adjustable height is one of the nice things you typically gain with desktop displays. Now it's not even an add-on option.
1440p panels are a bit long in the tooth but you are not looking at waiting for a month or more elsewhere. Or for a premium for that matter. The Monoprice panel is on waiting list just since it is sold out at $390.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 07:58 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by aloshka View Post
I kind of don't get the people that don't want to move forward with technology. It feels like if you had your way, you would still want a floppy drive and complain that the macbook pro retina as thin as it is doesnt' contain one.

CDs and DVDs died, for most of us anyway a long time ago. Why carry a read-only slow CD/DVD when you can have a USB thumb drive that can be reused. Why have DVD movies when you can stream 90% of them from netflix at even better quality.

Guess i'll never understand. But for me, I enjoy my light, sleek, insanely fast retina without a floppy drive, 3.5" drive, CDROM or a CRT built into it.
Netflix quality better than DVD or god forbid Blu-Ray - Not true and don't get me started on variety/depth of content in their library.

Thumb Drives are even less permanent than DVD's/CD's/BR. Try and find a 60GB thumbdrive for permanent storage.

The main reason, as I see it, for getting rid of the internal superdrive is to "superdrive" you to pay for Apples cloud download of content you already own or even better buy their external superdrive and add more wires to a beautiful computer.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 08:17 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Eidorian View Post
The Dell U2711 hit $649 last week and Monoprice just announced their own 27" IPS display for $390. The standard version of this panel is not really that hard to come by or expensive anymore. All for the sake of thinness I guess.
And reflections?

I don't know about this Monoprice monitor in particular, but focusing on only one name in the title or one specification, and claiming two complicated pieces of technology is identical under the hood can lead to folly. Sort of like assuming all USB3 external hard disks have the same read/write speed or all WiFi base stations that say 11n works just as well.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 08:19 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Eidorian View Post
1440p panels are a bit long in the tooth but you are not looking at waiting for a month or more elsewhere. Or for a premium for that matter. The Monoprice panel is on waiting list just since it is sold out at $390.
Yeah I get that. That is the cheapest implementation I've seen with that panel. The 1440p panels started to catch on in 2010, so you're right in that they're getting a bit long in the tooth. I don't necessarily upgrade displays every cycle. It's just a matter of when the hours on my current one hit a point where the profile has really started to shift or the newer version provides something that makes work easier to accomplish. My current one is just at a few thousand hours, so I'm not too worried at the moment. The only irritation is that the last version of Color Navigator changes the calibration options and it was crushing the blacks, so I had to roll it back. That annoys me to no end.

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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post


...and that's when I decided to get an iMac.
While I don't agree with the sentiment, that post is far too awesome.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 08:56 PM   #82
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While I don't agree with the sentiment, that post is far too awesome.
All exaggeration aside, I did clean out behind my desk last week, and it was a huge, huge, HUGE pain in the ass dealing with all those cables. Normally I'm pretty good with my wire management, but after shifting things around and moving things about for awhile, things tend to get a little sloppy. It got to the point I couldn't do any cleaning back there without worrying about sucking something important up in the vacuum cleaner.

The whole time, I thought about how having an AIO or powerful laptop would make things far easier on me. They've both gotten to the point where I wouldn't have to sacrifice all that much for the convenience of extra space. All my speaker wires could be bundled tidily behind an iMac, instead of having to span 4 feet between the monitor and the tower like I have it now. I could route all my plugs to a strip that's hidden by hanging it off the desk, rather than having it on the floor...yeah, I could go on. It'd be much, much easier to deal with.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 09:10 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
It'd be much, much easier to deal with.
That is the "form over function" argument in a nutshell.
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We long-haired cats do tend to shed a lot of fur - but I think that I'll be able to build 2 or 3 new cats from the dust bunnies behind the TV cabinet.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 09:18 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by theBB View Post
And reflections?

I don't know about this Monoprice monitor in particular, but focusing on only one name in the title or one specification, and claiming two complicated pieces of technology is identical under the hood can lead to folly. Sort of like assuming all USB3 external hard disks have the same read/write speed or all WiFi base stations that say 11n works just as well.
The opening article mentions a slow down due to lamination issues. Monoprice is going bargain basement with their panel. Nothing terribly special besides the price. They offer the usual 5 dead pixel replacement plan and 1-year warranty.

The Dell U2711 is leaning toward the professional and offers a generous 3-year warranty.

Whatever Apple is doing for the sake of thinness is really hurting them. Availability does not appear to be an issue elsewhere and these are no longer a "premium" item or as a flagship feature to show off as unique.

Monoprice beats fishing around for a group, bulk purchase of 27" 1440p panels from Korea at warehouse prices and questionable warranties.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 09:23 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
The whole time, I thought about how having an AIO or powerful laptop would make things far easier on me. They've both gotten to the point where I wouldn't have to sacrifice all that much for the convenience of extra space. All my speaker wires could be bundled tidily behind an iMac, instead of having to span 4 feet between the monitor and the tower like I have it now. I could route all my plugs to a strip that's hidden by hanging it off the desk, rather than having it on the floor...yeah, I could go on. It'd be much, much easier to deal with.
With my storage devices and things, it wouldn't make that much of a difference. I'd still personally have to deal with storage devices, wide format printer, and document scanner ... sigh. It's not like I wouldn't enjoy a lack of cords. I disliked certain aspects of the design aspect where functionality was lost. It's an all in one either way. If I ever purchased one, I'd want the VESA mount, which is no longer an option. I'd find it more of an understandable goal if some space was actually saved with the new design.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eidorian View Post
The Dell U2711 is leaning toward the professional and offers a generous 3-year warranty.
NEC offers a 4 year warranty. I've seen it as low as $950 recently. t Dell typically prices themselves lower than NEC. Monoprice often hits a good combination. They're typically extremely cheap and offer really good functionality for the price.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 09:34 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by thekev View Post
NEC offers a 4 year warranty. I've seen it as low as $950 recently. t Dell typically prices themselves lower than NEC. Monoprice often hits a good combination. They're typically extremely cheap and offer really good functionality for the price.
Let me be clear that the Dell U2711 was on sale. I do not recall it hitting under ~$800 the various times I investigated it. Seeing it at $649 was startling.

Is not the NEC 1440p something excessively professional? Every time I think of Lenovo or NEC IPS displays, I imagine something over US$1,000 at the least.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 09:38 PM   #87
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Are they running low on children in china?

These delays are killing me!
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 09:40 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by AidenShaw View Post
That is the "form over function" argument in a nutshell.
In this case, its form is the function. It's cleaner and less of a hassle to deal with over time.

Form over function to me is leaving out an SD card slot so you can have a smooth bevel. The iMac at least has access to the usual bevy of ports you'd get on a desktop PC. Not as many of them admittedly, but I only use three on my tower anyway. The rest are hooked up through the hub.

The one thing that does give me pause is that I'll be spending $2300+ on a computer I can only superficially upgrade. At that price, I want to make sure I can get at least 4 years use out of it. As relatively powerful as the new 27" iMac is, I don't know if I can do that. The 680MX will get pretty long in the tooth in a fairly a short amount of time, and there won't be anything I can do about it besides sell off the whole machine and get a new one.

It's one of the things that's kept me in decision limbo. I like the convenience and design, but there are some pretty big caveats to it that keep me from running out and grabbing one now.

Quote:
Coincidentally, I'm re-arranging the home theatre this weekend - got a full-motion wall-mount for the flat panel, moving the left-right-center speakers,...

We long-haired cats do tend to shed a lot of fur - but I think that I'll be able to build 2 or 3 new cats from the dust bunnies behind the TV cabinet.
Yeah, I've got a couple cats. I don't know how any animal can lose that much fur and not be bald after a month. And what's even weirder is how it all clumps together in the more neglected corners of the house. It's like it all floats together in the middle of the night while you're asleep.

For awhile, I thought my cats were building effigies of each other for use in voodoo rituals or something.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 09:47 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
I don't see how it could ever be as bad as a tower.
...and that's when I decided to get an iMac.
LOL Thanks for this, made me laugh and smile
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 10:35 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by bedifferent View Post
How are these sales compared to last models sales? It seems in short supple not due to popularity but due to issues with LG's laminated display. Numbers would be good here.



I still can't believe Apple shrunk down the edges to make it "appear thinner". Removed ODD, same processors, 2.5" 5400 RPM HDD on 21" model, USB 3.0 and 32GB RAM max seem the only benefits. Honestly, this model seems a step backwards in hardware to give the appearance of a "thinner" iMac when it really isn't. Having worked behind the bar before the iPhone launch, iMac's are a PITA to diagnose/repair/disassemble. Using glue/tape instead of magnets to hold the glass/LCD in place is disappointing. I laughed when a former colleague of mine said Geniuses now have Elmer's in the back.

Previous iMac Tech Specs

Current Gen iMac Tech Specs
Right, except... not.

New CPUs (Sandy Bridge > Ivy Bridge, not "the same CPUs" as you seem to think), addition of USB 3, much better GPUs, increase in supported RAM, much reduced glare and reflections on the screen, substantial reduction in weight.

And, it doesn't just "appear thinner" - it really *is* thinner - I'm not sure what the reason is for people trying to "catch Apple in a lie" or something relating to the new design. It really is thinner than the last one. The so-called "bulge" on the back is also nonsense - it obviously gets thicker as it approaches the hinge, but it's a smooth grade and is still very thin back there.

The tape is very easy to cut and easy to replace, and the internal layout and serviceability is much improved over the old models (trust me, I know).

So, any other "facts" you want to level against it? The only real criticism that can really be levelled is the removal of the ODD in a desktop chassis, but you didn't even touch on that. You just proclaimed a nebulous "step backwards in hardware" with vague, naive handwaving about how it "appears thinner" with nothing to actually back that up.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 10:48 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by joe-h2o View Post
Right, except... not.

New CPUs (Sandy Bridge > Ivy Bridge, not "the same CPUs" as you seem to think), addition of USB 3, much better GPUs, increase in supported RAM, much reduced glare and reflections on the screen, substantial reduction in weight.

And, it doesn't just "appear thinner" - it really *is* thinner - I'm not sure what the reason is for people trying to "catch Apple in a lie" or something relating to the new design. It really is thinner than the last one. The so-called "bulge" on the back is also nonsense - it obviously gets thicker as it approaches the hinge, but it's a smooth grade and is still very thin back there.

The tape is very easy to cut and easy to replace, and the internal layout and serviceability is much improved over the old models (trust me, I know).

So, any other "facts" you want to level against it? The only real criticism that can really be levelled is the removal of the ODD in a desktop chassis, but you didn't even touch on that. You just proclaimed a nebulous "step backwards in hardware" with vague, naive handwaving about how it "appears thinner" with nothing to actually back that up.
Whoa, easy guy, no need to get personal, it's just a computer

Yes, I know it's a new Intel CPU class, my remake was regarding the speeds for each model which if you looked are on par. Aside from USB 3.0 and some other minor under the hood differences, for the vast majority (i.e. the general consumer) there isn't much of a difference. As a former "Genius" years ago, I've worked on many iMac systems, from the lamp shade through the very first iMac to use full desktop parts (early models utilized notebook parts for form factor). They're a tough bunch to crack, I actually think the tape/glue would be easier than the magnets - those are a PITA to remove, but more so to put back as you really need a clean room to avoid any dust getting between the glass and the LED LCD panel. As this model uses a laminated panel that is "sealed" it must be easier to remove.

Sorry if my comments came off as "catty", not meant to, just disappointed in Apple's move towards form and less function - especially with the now three year old Mac Pro models. I've seen the new iMac, and it really isn't that thin. The "bulge" on the back is very prominent, the only thin is the edge of the screen. Still, it is impressive but I don't understand how is serves a purpose for a desktop system that is not meant to be portable.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 10:55 PM   #92
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Whoa, easy guy, no need to get personal, it's just a computer

Yes, I know it's a new Intel CPU class, my remake was regarding the speeds for each model which if you looked are on par. Aside from USB 3.0 and some other minor under the hood differences, for the vast majority (i.e. the general consumer) there isn't much of a difference. As a former "Genius" years ago, I've worked on many iMac systems, from the lamp shade through the very first iMac to use full desktop parts (early models utilized notebook parts for form factor). They're a tough bunch to crack, I actually think the tape/glue would be easier than the magnets - those are a PITA to remove, but more so to put back as you really need a clean room to avoid any dust getting between the glass and the LED LCD panel. As this model uses a laminated panel that is "sealed" it must be easier to remove.

Sorry if my comments came off as "catty", not meant to, just disappointed in Apple's move towards form and less function - especially with the now three year old Mac Pro models. I've seen the new iMac, and it really isn't that thin. The "bulge" on the back is very prominent, the only thin is the edge of the screen. Still, it is impressive but I don't understand how is serves a purpose for a desktop system that is not meant to be portable.
Ah, it's ok. I should really apologise - I didn't mean to be antagonistic. Put it down to a bunch of nonsense I'm dealing with now, and spending a lot of time on another forum where things are more hostile.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 10:55 PM   #93
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Let me be clear that the Dell U2711 was on sale. I do not recall it hitting under ~$800 the various times I investigated it. Seeing it at $649 was startling.

Is not the NEC 1440p something excessively professional? Every time I think of Lenovo or NEC IPS displays, I imagine something over US$1,000 at the least.
Yeah. In 2006 or so I bought one of their 21" displays for around $1500 + another $400 or so for the Spectraview kit if I remember correctly. The PA271W was around $1700 when it came out in 2010. NEC doesn't necessarily update annually, but they're fairly aggressive on price cuts once something passes the middle of its life cycle. I tend to suggest them for people buying today over a thunderbolt display if color is a significant factor. Both are the same era of technology, and Apple doesn't really do price cuts. When they're around the same price, the only thing I see in favor of Apple is the docking station functionality. The $950 I mentioned was B+H without the Spectraview software or colorimeter. It's also one of those things where it says click to see price in cart. Given how much it has dropped, I'd say they probably have something else coming, but I typically avoid them early on in a release cycle. Sometimes you end up with a lot of bugs at the beginning.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 11:26 PM   #94
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In this case, its form is the function. It's cleaner and less of a hassle to deal with over time.

Form over function to me is leaving out an SD card slot so you can have a smooth bevel. The iMac at least has access to the usual bevy of ports you'd get on a desktop PC. Not as many of them admittedly, but I only use three on my tower anyway. The rest are hooked up through the hub.

The one thing that does give me pause is that I'll be spending $2300+ on a computer I can only superficially upgrade. At that price, I want to make sure I can get at least 4 years use out of it. As relatively powerful as the new 27" iMac is, I don't know if I can do that. The 680MX will get pretty long in the tooth in a fairly a short amount of time, and there won't be anything I can do about it besides sell off the whole machine and get a new one.

It's one of the things that's kept me in decision limbo. I like the convenience and design, but there are some pretty big caveats to it that keep me from running out and grabbing one now.



Yeah, I've got a couple cats. I don't know how any animal can lose that much fur and not be bald after a month. And what's even weirder is how it all clumps together in the more neglected corners of the house. It's like it all floats together in the middle of the night while you're asleep.

For awhile, I thought my cats were building effigies of each other for use in voodoo rituals or something.
Man stop complaining. It's worth every penny.

Your thinking is dented up and bent to the extreme!

You'll be losing money if you hold on to your big investment longer than 2 years. That number can vary depending on the rate of change in tech.

You'll be able to recover over 70% of your investment if you sell within the first 2 years of the product release. Depending on the product, that percentage can vary.

You can then use the funds recovered with a supplement from your wallet to purchase the next top of the line hot piece of ass from Apple.

If you wait 4 years, and then upgrade to another spiffy machine, the resale value of your old junk will be worth junk.

Been doing this since the first iPhone. Keep recovering your investment and reinvest it. Unfortunatly this is how it must be done with technology that evolves at an exponential rate.

This is such common sense that it gave rise to businesses whose only purpose is to resell Apple-stamped goods: Gazelle

Last edited by iAco; Jan 10, 2013 at 11:41 PM.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 11:30 PM   #95
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Ah, it's ok. I should really apologise - I didn't mean to be antagonistic. Put it down to a bunch of nonsense I'm dealing with now, and spending a lot of time on another forum where things are more hostile.
No worries! It happens, you have some good points. Thanks for the nice response, I appreciate it and apologize as well if anything I wrote was taken the wrong way.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 11:43 PM   #96
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Man stop complaining. It's worth every penny.

Your thinking is dented up and bent to the extreme!

You'll be losing money if you hold on to your big investment longer than 2 years. That number can vary depending on the rate of change in tech.

You'll be able to recover over 70% of your investment if you sell within the first 2 years of the product release. Depending on the product, that percentage can vary.

You can then use the funds recovered with a supplement from your wallet to purchase the next top of the line hot piece of ass from Apple.

If you wait 4 years, and then upgrade to another spiffy machine, the resale value of your old junk will be worth junk.

Been doing this since the first iPhone. Keep recovering your investment and reinvest it. Unfortunatly this is how it must be done with technology that evolves at an exponential rate.

This is such common sense that it gave rise to businesses whose only purpose is to resell Apple-stamped goods: Gazelle
Hey, you're right!
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 05:01 AM   #97
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Other then wanting to look cool, there is little advantage to a 2012 iMac. Well, i Guess there is USB 3.0 ( about 18mo late).
USB3 was only available with the new Ivy Bridge CPUs, which came out about 9 months ago.

I still think the only design should have been updated with USB3 and Ivy Bridge mid 2012, then this model could have been released in early 2013. Enough time to sort the production issues.
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 06:24 AM   #98
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Or they could have made it only slightly thicker and avoided this problem. The race to make the thinnest things possible is ignorant especially in the desktop market.
While I agree to a point about thickness, the new screen does look much better with glass bonded directly to the panel. It has made a marked difference to image quality and reduced reflections by quite a lot. Still think they should have made the whole thing thicker and included better graphics chip in the space.= though
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 06:31 AM   #99
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Brilliant, they can now sell us yet another accessory!
Yes, it was the plan all along to get rid of optical drives and then to sell them back at a premium. What a nice pile of money it will be
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 06:35 AM   #100
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I'm glad I pulled the trigger on day 1. I debated picking one from the local store here but I'm guessing I still wouldn't have one....
Us too! Unpacked yesterday. Its been like waiting for Christmas Day again!
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