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Old Jan 11, 2013, 06:55 AM   #101
yegon
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Originally Posted by Eidorian View Post
The Dell U2711 hit $649 last week and Monoprice just announced their own 27" IPS display for $390. The standard version of this panel is not really that hard to come by or expensive anymore. All for the sake of thinness I guess.
Do NOT buy the Dell u2711 if you want to use DisplayPort. It has a known issue with the dp, never been resolved, never will be. Google it.

I've had one for years, its a good monitor, but I have to use the Apple Dual Link DVI adaptor for 2560x1440. I can live with it (although the Apple adaptor is very flakey) as I use it with my PC too, but I wouldn't suggest anyone buy it if you ever intend to use DisplayPort.

I'll be buying the next TB display, got a bigger desk these days and will have them side by side

Last edited by yegon; Jan 11, 2013 at 07:02 AM.
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 09:21 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by yegon View Post
Do NOT buy the Dell u2711 if you want to use DisplayPort. It has a known issue with the dp, never been resolved, never will be. Google it.

I've had one for years, its a good monitor, but I have to use the Apple Dual Link DVI adaptor for 2560x1440. I can live with it (although the Apple adaptor is very flakey) as I use it with my PC too, but I wouldn't suggest anyone buy it if you ever intend to use DisplayPort.

I'll be buying the next TB display, got a bigger desk these days and will have them side by side
Nice! I had 2 23" Apple CCFL LCD's that lasted 7-8 years, loved 'em. They held up well with 10-12 hours of daily use, but sadly began ghosting a few years ago. Having heard horror stories w/ Apple's newer LED LCD panels I went the Dell route after months of research. I went through a few Dell displays with numerous issues (banding, dead pixels, etc). Dell was amazing in accepting the returns with a full refund, broke my heart as I really wanted it to work.

Finally gave in and bought a 24" LED LCD and another on sale when Apple switched to the 27" panel with the iMac switch (they're the same panel, hence only one Apple display is offered when 3 sizes were before). I went through two of them until the pair were matched enough (although even with calibration one is much more pink than the other). While good displays, I still miss the CCFL LCD's that garnered so much praise for Apple. Wonder if the DP was partly to blame, as I have a current gen Mac Pro w/ ATI Radeon 5770 HD.
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 09:48 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by yegon View Post
Do NOT buy the Dell u2711 if you want to use DisplayPort. It has a known issue with the dp, never been resolved, never will be. Google it.

I've had one for years, its a good monitor, but I have to use the Apple Dual Link DVI adaptor for 2560x1440. I can live with it (although the Apple adaptor is very flakey) as I use it with my PC too, but I wouldn't suggest anyone buy it if you ever intend to use DisplayPort.

I'll be buying the next TB display, got a bigger desk these days and will have them side by side
using my DELL u2713H with DP absolutely nil issues - maybe dell resolved the issue in the newer models, however i know many friends using the dell u2711 with rMBP without issues!

I would really love the new 27 maxed out iMac, however, the major disadvantage for me is the lack of native ssd availabilites, had they offered 256/512gb option, i would of snapped one up on launch day. And yes, i could 'rip my mac' open, as i have done in the past, however, i find myself with very little time atm. Think the late 2013 haswell edition will be my next mac. which mean no mac for me atm
In the meantime, i ordering porsche to fill the void!
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 10:12 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by johnnyturbouk View Post
using my DELL u2713H with DP absolutely nil issues - maybe dell resolved the issue in the newer models, however i know many friends using the dell u2711 with rMBP without issues!

I would really love the new 27 maxed out iMac, however, the major disadvantage for me is the lack of native ssd availabilites, had they offered 256/512gb option, i would of snapped one up on launch day. And yes, i could 'rip my mac' open, as i have done in the past, however, i find myself with very little time atm. Think the late 2013 haswell edition will be my next mac. which mean no mac for me atm
In the meantime, i ordering porsche to fill the void!
In the case of the u2713H, that's a completely different monitor so naturally I'm not talking about that. Not sure what your point is . I'm not disparaging Dell's in general, I'm talking about a specific model. The Dell I've bought is otherwise a good monitor.

As for your friend, are you sure is he using the DisplayPort on the U2711? Just googling "dell u2711 displayport issues", there's a tonne of people experiencing the same thing. Dell support forums never resolved it. Yes yes, the internet most definitely skews and overblows a lot of faults in all products, but my endless research into solving it never yielded a satisfactory solution. As such I do NOT recommend the u2711 to anyone who wants to use the DisplayPort. I'm not talking about Dell's in general, I'm not talking about your model, I'm talking specifically about the u2711.

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Nice! I had 2 23" Apple CCFL LCD's that lasted 7-8 years, loved 'em. They held up well with 10-12 hours of daily use, but sadly began ghosting a few years ago. Having heard horror stories w/ Apple's newer LED LCD panels I went the Dell route after months of research. I went through a few Dell displays with numerous issues (banding, dead pixels, etc). Dell was amazing in accepting the returns with a full refund, broke my heart as I really wanted it to work.
I'm a big pc gamer, and for that purpose non-Apple monitors are much more versatile. However, I dearly loved the 24" ACD that I later sold (unfortunately) for space reasons. I'm looking forward to having the next TB next to my u2711. PC for games, my new Mac Mini for everything else, side by side. Sweeet! For now, I'm using a kvm switch and the Dell for both. It'll serve, just a shame the Apple Dual Link DVI adaptor is kinda flakey itself (again, a google search on that reveals a common fault with the Apple adaptor).
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 10:46 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by D.T. View Post
Hopefully with the supply of 27" displays improving, we'll soon see a 27" Thunderbolt monitor with this new display tech (and physical design), coupled with USB 3.0 ports.
I hope so! A 27" iMac with a matching 27" Thunderbolt monitor could easily find use in professional video editing venues. Apple could sell a zillion of them to TV stations for every news editing booth in the house - all networked clients of one or two of the new MacPros coming later this year. Apple's also been making significant improvements to Final Cut X , and it now easily handles the Multi-cam feature that so many complained about it lacking. Watch for continued growth back into the professional market for Apple.
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 10:47 AM   #106
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Enjoying two 27" at our office, glad I snagged 'em on launch day. Delivered on Dec 18th. I find it hard to believe they can only yank out 100,000/month that must be just the tip of the global demand.
Have you tested your iMacs for Image Retention? There are some reports that the iMac is suffering from the same issue as the MBPr.

https://discussions.apple.com/messag...23456#20877406



https://discussions.apple.com/thread...=6345&tstart=0

THanks for the update
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 10:47 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by Ed A. View Post
It's my experience that for video editing, a Fusion Drive will most definitely cause the problems I mentioned. I know the conventional 3TB HDD doesn't have those problems because I tested a Carbon Copy Cloner backup I made on a conventional 3TB Lacie Thunderbolt HDD, and it worked perfectly.

See also:

http://www.zdnet.com/mac-fusion-driv...re-7000006661/
Thanks for the response and the link.
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 10:50 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by johnnyturbouk View Post
using my DELL u2713H with DP absolutely nil issues - maybe dell resolved the issue in the newer models, however i know many friends using the dell u2711 with rMBP without issues!

I would really love the new 27 maxed out iMac, however, the major disadvantage for me is the lack of native ssd availabilites, had they offered 256/512gb option, i would of snapped one up on launch day. And yes, i could 'rip my mac' open, as i have done in the past, however, i find myself with very little time atm. Think the late 2013 haswell edition will be my next mac. which mean no mac for me atm
In the meantime, i ordering porsche to fill the void!

What is the time frame given for that? March to June? and then some to be implemented into the iMacs'?
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 10:56 AM   #109
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They should fix the image retention problem first...
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 11:50 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by itsamacthing View Post
Have you tested your iMacs for Image Retention? There are some reports that the iMac is suffering from the same issue as the MBPr.

https://discussions.apple.com/messag...23456#20877406



https://discussions.apple.com/thread...=6345&tstart=0

THanks for the update
How real is this problem please new iMac owners? Have one arriving Monday or Tuesday next week and now fretting
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 06:27 PM   #111
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With my storage devices and things, it wouldn't make that much of a difference. I'd still personally have to deal with storage devices, wide format printer, and document scanner ... sigh. It's not like I wouldn't enjoy a lack of cords. I disliked certain aspects of the design aspect where functionality was lost. It's an all in one either way. If I ever purchased one, I'd want the VESA mount, which is no longer an option. I'd find it more of an understandable goal if some space was actually saved with the new design.
You'd still be saving space simply because you wouldn't have a huge tower sitting around somewhere near your desk. The wires? You'd still have the same amount to deal with (minus one or two), but you could use shorter length cables, and they'd all be routed from a central spot spreading outwards.

For example, the way my current desktops are set up, I've got the tower sitting off to the right freestanding 3-4 feet away with my monitor right in front of me (obviously). Everything I have is plugged into the computer and routed over for easy access in front of the monitor. That requires a bunch of 10+ foot cables I have to braid, hang, hide, and generally futz around with. If I move or replace something at some point, I end up loosening everything up, and have to reorganize it again at some point. It's a pain in the ass.

With an AIO, everything's situated right behind the monitor. Your printer and scanner could be off to the left, an HDD enclosure and other random stuff off to the right, and the speakers just right behind it (save for the sub). It's all on your desk, easily organized.

Course you could blame most of my problems on sitting my computer so far away from the monitor (I like a lot of room on my desk), but you do have to admit that an AIO does offer a little more convenience simply because everything's centralized.
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 07:36 PM   #112
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Course you could blame most of my problems on sitting my computer so far away from the monitor (I like a lot of room on my desk), but you do have to admit that an AIO does offer a little more convenience simply because everything's centralized.
Perhaps some amount, but the disadvantages kills it for me. I have a better display that I know is easy to maintain via their calibration software. I wouldn't touch an imac without a vesa mount arm to fine tune the height. I'd also have to change storage solutions to something compliant with it. It doesn't work out well overall for me.
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 08:14 PM   #113
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Perhaps some amount, but the disadvantages kills it for me. I have a better display that I know is easy to maintain via their calibration software. I wouldn't touch an imac without a vesa mount arm to fine tune the height. I'd also have to change storage solutions to something compliant with it. It doesn't work out well overall for me.
Yeah, the iMac itself would probably work better for me than it would for you. In the grand computer power scheme, I'm more on the high end of the middle prosumer level. I need more than most, not nearly as much as some. The 27" iMac is (finally, as of this generation) a decent computer for me.

But you do have to admit, if you could get a vesa mountable AIO with an EIZO quality display that provided everything you need in a relatively thin package, you would be tempted to get it over a tower. There's a lot of appealing stuff about a computer that's just...right there.
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 08:45 PM   #114
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But you do have to admit, if you could get a vesa mountable AIO with an EIZO quality display that provided everything you need in a relatively thin package, you would be tempted to get it over a tower. There's a lot of appealing stuff about a computer that's just...right there.
At that point it would just come down to if I could hit a point of "good enough" on the gpu and storage options. My point with the other stuff is that while those issues exist, it's a virtual non-starter. It's not even so much about bleeding edge display technology. We had some that could match the majority of targets used today a few years ago. If the imac was completely there in those two aspects around its current price and I suspected drift could be minimized for at least a couple years of use, I'd take it much more seriously. There is a lot of misinformation regarding topics like monitor calibration on this forum. Part of the problem is that if you don't know a lot about it, it can come off as a topic with a lot of contradictions.

People commonly want to match a hardware device, such as a printer. It's difficult to do that without an appropriate viewing environment, even though it's fine to view it under other kinds of lighting later on. Anything falling under that lighting is affected. You just don't want to use random lighting to attempt a match. Of course it's also possible to track display + printer + viewing table to an arbitrary target. Some of these setups are actually certifiable to specific standards, in which case every link is being validated as opposed to one being aimed at the other as best as possible. That's also more the case with colorists, as video eventually ends up on some kind of display.

The confusion basically relates to different ways of trying to tackle a problem, be it using a set of devices and trying to hit certain values within a specified tolerance that are independent of the individual pieces of hardware vs trying to emulate the behavior of one device in another. In either case there's a further misunderstanding of how each device is set up. You don't have any access to raw hardware values in an imac. You send it a set of instructions based on a limited set of values that can only be manipulated at certain points. In a way you just roughly guide the behavior of the stated algorithms, as this is the nature of a matrix profile. The display hardware itself is like a black box. Apple set the hardware values. They may drift over time, but you are stuck with what Apple gives you. That is why I tell people that calibration will not fix a bad display. It helps hit a specified target if that target is already close. It can often maintain a more accurate description of the display, especially as it can be tuned for whatever brightness level you're using. It provides some amount of compensation for drift through the limited methods described.

Anyway there's my mini rant, but hopefully it explains something. I blame marketing materials and poor salesmen for not providing better information on the process.
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Old Jan 12, 2013, 05:19 PM   #115
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i will not buy until they give us more SSD-options. 768 for that much money is just stupid. why not 256/512 as option? wake up apple!
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Old Jan 12, 2013, 08:35 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Confuzzzed View Post
How real is this problem please new iMac owners? Have one arriving Monday or Tuesday next week and now fretting
I have not experienced any problems with the new iMac screen image quality at all, in fact, I hve been using the iMac since the 24th of December and it has performed flawlessly.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 01:11 PM   #117
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The previous magnetic coupling = BEST !!!

...time to change to get it back
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 12:11 PM   #118
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Mine just shipped last night. There is only one way anyone should be ordering this computer:
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 12:57 PM   #119
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Question about profits in short interval

Is there any ongoing documentation of how much profit increases as price for internal parts decreases with time? In small intervals?

For example a retina screen decreases in cost to manufacture over time, so when it's introduced on iMac this year (fingers crossed), after three months will the profit of selling the device increase dramatically? Because retina screen decreases in manufacturing cost?

I'm sure this is more apparent in things sold in more abundance like iPhones and iPads right now (rather than Macs) but at scale a few months of manufacture competition could really drive down price, no?
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 03:41 PM   #120
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Looking at other threads, monitoring delivery times for the 27" iMac seems to have gotten faster since the middle of last week...first signs perhaps supply is ramping up?
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 06:42 PM   #121
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Or they could have made it only slightly thicker and avoided this problem. The race to make the thinnest things possible is ignorant especially in the desktop market.
It is having the display laminated this way that gave it 70% less glare and overall improved visual quality! It is not all about thinness!
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 12:17 AM   #122
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I ordered my 27" (i7, 1Tb Fusion, 680Mx) on Dec 1st through an Apple Reseller and almost 6 weeks later I'm still waiting! I was give an ETA of 3-4 weeks at the time I placed my order!
Same boat as you, exact same config too. (ordered through JB Hi-Fi on 6th Dec)..

As of today, i have been given a new ETA of mid-feb... not happy!!!

Have you got yours yet?
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 02:08 AM   #123
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Same boat as you, exact same config too. (ordered through JB Hi-Fi on 6th Dec)..

As of today, i have been given a new ETA of mid-feb... not happy!!!

Have you got yours yet?
No and I don't have an ETA.

I'll be calling them (again) Monday.

Its been 7 weeks as of last Saturday, getting seriously close to 2 months for a 3k machine! When others have got the same spec in half the time!!!
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 11:42 PM   #124
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No and I don't have an ETA.

I'll be calling them (again) Monday.

Its been 7 weeks as of last Saturday, getting seriously close to 2 months for a 3k machine! When others have got the same spec in half the time!!!
Yep, its ridiculous... and i payed for mine 7 weeks ago... absolutely disgraceful if you ask me.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 03:34 AM   #125
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Yep, its ridiculous... and i payed for mine 7 weeks ago... absolutely disgraceful if you ask me.
I don't blame the reseller, they don't want customers waiting. Apple is clearly having supply issues. But what annoys the hell out of me is going to online to forums and some customers receiving their new (same spec) iMac in a few weeks usually via the Apple online Store or in some cases they walk into some Apple Retail Stores who just happen to have the top spec 27" with all the upgrades and walking out minutes later, no waiting
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