Go Back   MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > MacRumors.com News Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Jan 11, 2013, 03:36 PM   #76
thajeztah
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: May 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by krravi View Post
And Eclipse is written in? Terrible response times! Almost puts you to sleep looking at the IDE.
I don't think Eclipse qualifies as an example of JAVA performance. Eclipse is about the worst case of Java performance.

If you're still running Eclipse and use it for web development, please have a look at PhpStorm (www.jetbrains.com). Also Java, but a whole lot more responsive.
thajeztah is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11, 2013, 03:38 PM   #77
Nermal
Moderator
 
Nermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Whakatane, New Zealand
How do I re-enable the Java plugin? I don't mind having a warning, and I'll disable it again after I've done what I'm trying to do, but I can't find how to work around this block. Any ideas?
Nermal is online now   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11, 2013, 03:40 PM   #78
coolfactor
macrumors 68000
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Vancouver, BC CANADA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yujenisis View Post
Sadly, Java runtime for Windows is not much better...

Perhaps, Oracle just hates the world?
The very nature of Java is that it's an environment unto itself, a run-time that sits on top of the native operating system. Loading up this environment, and running code within it is going to be slower than native code. It's a beast.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jk1002 View Post
This was really a bright move.

Tons of companies are relying on Juniper VPN which use Java and just got disabled.

Rather then having a work loss caused by a potential virus attack Apple just did it themselves.

Congrats Braniacs.
Does Juniper VPN depend on the Java browser plugin-in? Java itself isn't blocked.
coolfactor is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11, 2013, 03:41 PM   #79
charlesdayton
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by xionxiox View Post
Java is the worst thing ever. Always buggy and slow. Oracle doesn't give a damn about Macs.
It is buggy and slow on Windows and Linux too.
charlesdayton is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11, 2013, 03:41 PM   #80
Blackforge
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nermal View Post
How do I re-enable the Java plugin? I don't mind having a warning, and I'll disable it again after I've done what I'm trying to do, but I can't find how to work around this block. Any ideas?
You could probably edit the Xprotect.plist (Xprotect.meta.plist) file and then shut off the auto-update.
__________________
2011 MacBook Pro 15" HR-AG 2.2 8GB 750GB 7200 Momentus XT
Blackforge is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11, 2013, 03:41 PM   #81
KnightWRX
macrumors Pentium
 
KnightWRX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Quebec, Canada
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolfactor View Post
The very nature of Java is that it's an environment unto itself, a run-time that sits on top of the native operating system. Loading up this environment, and running code within it is going to be slower than native code. It's a beast.
Since Java 1.3, the Java Runtime has been using JIT compilation to execute native binary code rather than interpreted bytecode for performance sensitive sections of a given application.

The rest of the exposes frameworks from the Java runtime are no different than the cocoa runtime in their complexity (NSString vs Java strings are no more or less complex). Technicly speaking, the only performance penalty would be during loading, when the JVM performs the compilation step.
__________________
"What you leave behind is not what is engraved in stone monuments, but what is woven into the lives of others."
-- Pericles
KnightWRX is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11, 2013, 03:43 PM   #82
Blackforge
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolfactor View Post
The very nature of Java is that it's an environment unto itself, a run-time that sits on top of the native operating system. Loading up this environment, and running code within it is going to be slower than native code. It's a beast.

----------



Does Juniper VPN depend on the Java browser plugin-in? Java itself isn't blocked.
Juniper VPN requires the Java plug-in to launch all associated files. So Juniper VPN is shut off (verified at work when I found out about the block).
__________________
2011 MacBook Pro 15" HR-AG 2.2 8GB 750GB 7200 Momentus XT
Blackforge is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11, 2013, 03:47 PM   #83
tigres
macrumors 68040
 
tigres's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Land of the Free-Waiting for Term Limits
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nermal View Post
How do I re-enable the Java plugin? I don't mind having a warning, and I'll disable it again after I've done what I'm trying to do, but I can't find how to work around this block. Any ideas?
There you are Nermal
__________________
Quicker than two shakes of a lambs tail
tigres is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11, 2013, 03:51 PM   #84
Nermal
Moderator
 
Nermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Whakatane, New Zealand
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigres View Post
There you are Nermal
Does that work? The first post says that it affects versions 4 through 7, so wouldn't it still be blocked after reverting to 6?

Unfortunately I don't have time to try it now; I need to go out
Nermal is online now   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11, 2013, 03:56 PM   #85
iGrip
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Send a message via ICQ to iGrip Send a message via AIM to iGrip Send a message via MSN to iGrip Send a message via Yahoo to iGrip Send a message via Skype™ to iGrip
Quote:
Originally Posted by xionxiox View Post
JOracle doesn't give a damn about Macs.
Yeah, but if you think about it, pretty much nobody else gives a damn about Macs either. Neither the computer buying public, nor most software developers. The numbers are just too small for major developers to let their "A" team spend much time on the Mac stuff. There are just too few Mac users in the wild.
iGrip is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11, 2013, 03:57 PM   #86
Stella
macrumors 603
 
Stella's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Canada
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
I've heard that Ruby on Rails is the most awesomest thing ever. I tried to install the Rails runtime and serve it through Apache. Wow was that ever a PITA and it never quite worked.

Tomcat/JBoss/WebSphere/Glassfish are models of stability and ease of use compared to the much vaunted Rails. I think people are just lazy, J2EE/JSPs/EJBs aren't so bad, they're just complex because they enable complex applications to be built.
Companies tend to make inappropriate choices about what languages and frameworks to use. Java has fairly slow development times (java is inheriently verbose + development times affected by poor choice of application framework also ) also and may not be the right choice - when other languages may be more suitable. I'm not just talking about current fashionable langauges such as <something> on rails, i.e., ruby.

Absolutely right about EJBS, j2ee etc. A lot of applications are over engineered and simply do not require J2ee.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krravi View Post
Java is slow. Case in point? Eclipse IDE. They run better now as most people have at least dual core processors. Compare that with XCode or Visual Studio or Borland.

BTW the whole object oriented web application framework was started by Apple called "WebObjects" (based on JAVA)before .NET or others came along. And its still used by Apple to run their websites,online stores and iTunes. But Apple was smart enough to never write iTunes or any front end application in Java. Apple used to release that SDK like XCode for a while and have now stopped it. Wonder why.... But there is a open source community that still supports it.
Sorry, you just can't say "Java is slow" and cite one desktop application, thats extremely shortsighted and really slows a lack of knowledge.
__________________
Hardware / Software: The right tools for the job - be it Apple or otherwise.

Last edited by Stella; Jan 11, 2013 at 04:08 PM.
Stella is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11, 2013, 03:59 PM   #87
Risco
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: United Kingdom
Sometimes a walled garden can be beneficial as proven in this case. Rather than wait for a load of customers to get infected, the can flick a switch to disable the offending app until it is patched. Well done Apple
Risco is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11, 2013, 04:03 PM   #88
TsMkLg068426
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Could we perma ban also Adobe Flash and move on to HTML5 already? What the hell is taking so long to get rid of Java and Flash?
__________________
21.5" iMac, 2.7GHz, Intel Core i5, 4GB Memory, 1 TB HD, Mac OS X Lion 10.7.2; 32 GB iPod Touch iOS 5.0.1
TsMkLg068426 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11, 2013, 04:07 PM   #89
tigres
macrumors 68040
 
tigres's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Land of the Free-Waiting for Term Limits
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nermal View Post
Does that work? The first post says that it affects versions 4 through 7, so wouldn't it still be blocked after reverting to 6?

Unfortunately I don't have time to try it now; I need to go out
Have not tried yet myself.
On 7, guess I need to revert to 6. Was just popping it on there for ya, as I saw it earlier in the thread.
__________________
Quicker than two shakes of a lambs tail
tigres is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11, 2013, 04:09 PM   #90
neiltc13
macrumors 68040
 
neiltc13's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Risco View Post
Sometimes a walled garden can be beneficial as proven in this case. Rather than wait for a load of customers to get infected, the can flick a switch to disable the offending app until it is patched. Well done Apple
Did you read the article? This is not a virus. It requires a user to follow a malicious link and then an attacker may be able to compromise their system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TsMkLg068426 View Post
Could we perma ban also Adobe Flash and move on to HTML5 already? What the hell is taking so long to get rid of Java and Flash?
Off topic, but one of the main uses for Flash is providing DRM video. There are very few implementations of this and Flash is one of the best - it certainly beats RealPlayer and Windows Media. There's no way to use "HTML5" to deliver DRM protected video.
neiltc13 is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11, 2013, 04:09 PM   #91
IJ Reilly
macrumors P6
 
IJ Reilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Palookaville
Quote:
Originally Posted by WildCowboy View Post
Your system simply hadn't gotten around to running its daily check yet. Prior to the change late yesterday that added Java to the blacklist, the last update to the file was indeed on December 12. Unless of course you manually turned off the daily checks.
Perhaps, but I would be more convinced if anyone could report that this update had occurred automatically on their Mac. (Preferably on Snow Leopard, which requires a security update to participate Apple's malware identification system.) The Preferences pane does not specify how often it checks, and we also get no feedback that anything has or has not occurred. Should we expect an OSX notice that malware has been removed or blocked, as Apple explains on their support page?

This remains unclear and confusing -- a real problem given the apparent magnitude of this security issue.
__________________
*The season starts too early and finishes too late and there are too many games in between.
Bill Veeck
IJ Reilly is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11, 2013, 04:10 PM   #92
Stella
macrumors 603
 
Stella's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Canada
Quote:
Originally Posted by TsMkLg068426 View Post
Could we perma ban also Adobe Flash and move on to HTML5 already? What the hell is taking so long to get rid of Java and Flash?
HTML5 on the desktop won't take off until IE10 becomes a whole lot more popular and previous versions of IE usage are in single digits.

Other browsers may becoming more popular but IE still dedicates what technologies are used. Unfortunately IE is the weakest of all the major browsers around.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Risco View Post
Sometimes a walled garden can be beneficial as proven in this case. Rather than wait for a load of customers to get infected, the can flick a switch to disable the offending app until it is patched. Well done Apple
A walled garden isn't justified in this case - it would be over kill. I don't think there's been an instance where an OSX walled garden has been justified. However, Apple being able to take this action is a good thing.
__________________
Hardware / Software: The right tools for the job - be it Apple or otherwise.

Last edited by Stella; Jan 11, 2013 at 04:15 PM.
Stella is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11, 2013, 04:13 PM   #93
bwillwall
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
The only thing I hear about Java anymore is it being a security threat. Why can't people start making apps in html5 and get rid of these outdated and buggy plugins?
bwillwall is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11, 2013, 04:19 PM   #94
thephoneguy123
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
temp fix

Well, I don't think I will join the debate about Java, but a temporary fix to enable Java (I know, it is a security hazard, however I don't have another option as I have to use the Juniper SSL VPN network connect client).
So,
1. close Safari
2. Open a terminal
3. sudo vi /System/Library/CoreServices/CoreTypes.bundle/Contents/Resources/XProtect.meta.plist
4. Find the string <key>MinimumPlugInBundleVersion</key>
5. Just under that line you should see the version. Change the last portion of the number from 19 to 1.
6. Save and exit
7. Start up Safari and you should work. You must keep in mind that this file may be updated by Apple again, so this is only temporary and should only be done if you *must* use your current version of Java.

best of luck....
thephoneguy123 is offline   5 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11, 2013, 04:25 PM   #95
Mr.damien
Guest
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stella View Post
Thanks for the reply.

I write Java on a daily basis, I wanted to know from you why you thought 'Java Sucks'... or if you were just on some bandwagon. Some reasons why Java sucks are now invalid and have been for a long time - such as 'Java is Slow'... which is a gross generalization.

Some of those points or valid in the link, others are just his opinion, others may disagree or agree.

Java can be a good choice on the server side, on the GUI side, not so much. Saying that, writing webapps with Java is not a great experience - there are better choices - YMMV.
Thanks for the reply.

Outside the fact that you are trying to defend the only language you know that makes your eat everyday, could you tell us why are the advantage of java over any others languages (like python, ruby, perl, etc ...) on the market because I just see none today or if you were just on some bandwagon.

While some reasons about why Java sucks are now invalid, others about why Java is cool like 'running everywhere' and 'it is the future' has always been invalid.

And still, Java is dogging slow especially on anything touching a desktop app. Sure you will always get some crap benchmark calling 10 000 time the same call to show how fast Java could be, but real world app are just not working like that.

And just to finish, a joke very famous within the UNIX sysadmin community: Do you know why Sun invented Java ? To make every processor to be as slow as a sparc.

So true, the funiest part was seeing the IBM JVM running faster than the Sun one.
  4 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11, 2013, 04:33 PM   #96
ajovanov
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
I got java to work now

I disabled safe download list and edited the list file

System Preferences -> Security & privacy -> General
unlock the padlock

click on Advanced button

uncheck automatically update safe downloads

click ok

open terminal

cd /System/Library/CoreServices/CoreTypes.bundle/Contents/Resources

you have to be root user now

cp XProtect.meta.plist XProtect.meta.plist.BAK

vi XProtect.meta.plist

change

<string>1.7.10.19</string>


to some lower numbers

in my case

<string>1.7.6.19</string>

now java will work, but your machine will be unsecure
ajovanov is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11, 2013, 04:36 PM   #97
TsMkLg068426
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stella View Post
HTML5 on the desktop won't take off until IE10 becomes a whole lot more popular and previous versions of IE usage are in single digits.

Other browsers may becoming more popular but IE still dedicates what technologies are used. Unfortunately IE is the weakest of all the major browsers around.

But I am not using Microsoft Windows so I do not get why Mac users should worry about IE.
__________________
21.5" iMac, 2.7GHz, Intel Core i5, 4GB Memory, 1 TB HD, Mac OS X Lion 10.7.2; 32 GB iPod Touch iOS 5.0.1
TsMkLg068426 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11, 2013, 04:39 PM   #98
coolfactor
macrumors 68000
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Vancouver, BC CANADA
Quote:
Originally Posted by TsMkLg068426 View Post
Could we perma ban also Adobe Flash and move on to HTML5 already? What the hell is taking so long to get rid of Java and Flash?
Java in a web environment is inexcusable these days, but there's still legacy applications in use and companies stuck in the past.

But Java runs natively outside the browser, too.
coolfactor is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11, 2013, 04:39 PM   #99
Stella
macrumors 603
 
Stella's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Canada
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.damien View Post
Thanks for the reply.

Outside the fact that you are trying to defend the only language you know that makes your eat everyday, could you tell us why are the advantage of java over any others languages (like python, ruby, perl, etc ...) on the market because I just see none today or if you were just on some bandwagon.
No, I use multiple languages - so Java isn't the only one I know. Java has its place, but many times, it is used inappropriately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.damien View Post
While some reasons about why Java sucks are now invalid, others about why Java is cool like 'running everywhere' and 'it is the future' has always been invalid.
While it doesn't run everywhere, it still runs on many platforms. And that is extremely useful, firstly, for cross platform application compatibility - especially between Windows and *nix, secondly for being able to use Java to write on different platforms.

Java is the most used language for mobile.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.damien View Post
And still, Java is dogging slow especially on anything touching a desktop app.
I disagree. Java can be extremely fast on the server side. C may be faster but you would really want to write a webapp using C? No, probably not.

Java on the desktop doesn't have to be slow, its how the application is implemented, like all apps. I can point you to dog slow ObjectiveC, C# desktop applications.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.damien View Post
And just to finish, a joke very famous within the UNIX sysadmin community: Do you know why Sun invented Java ? To make every processor to be as slow as a sparc.
"Java is slow" is inaccurate today and has been for a long time.




--------------


Quote:
Originally Posted by TsMkLg068426 View Post
But I am not using Microsoft Windows so I do not get why Mac users should worry about IE.
Firstly, I'll start with two points:
1. Windows users signficantly outnumber Mac users.
2. IE has a significant enough user base - versions 7,8,9 and 10.

So, given this:

When companies / individuals write a website they often want it to be accessible to as many people as possible. At the moment IE10 is the only IE browser that has good HTML5 support but IE10 hasn't got a particularly large user base.

Websites have to cater to IE8 and IE9 ( which makes up a large portion of users world wide ) so therefore HTML5 is out of the question, so websites will be developed using HTML4. So, when IE8 and IE9 has low enough userbase, companies will be able to target IE10 and therefore HTML5.

Mac users are constrained by the user base of internet explorer.
__________________
Hardware / Software: The right tools for the job - be it Apple or otherwise.

Last edited by Stella; Jan 11, 2013 at 04:58 PM.
Stella is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11, 2013, 04:39 PM   #100
tigres
macrumors 68040
 
tigres's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Land of the Free-Waiting for Term Limits
Quote:
Originally Posted by thephoneguy123 View Post
Well, I don't think I will join the debate about Java, but a temporary fix to enable Java (I know, it is a security hazard, however I don't have another option as I have to use the Juniper SSL VPN network connect client).
So,
1. close Safari
2. Open a terminal
3. sudo vi /System/Library/CoreServices/CoreTypes.bundle/Contents/Resources/XProtect.meta.plist
4. Find the string <key>MinimumPlugInBundleVersion</key>
5. Just under that line you should see the version. Change the last portion of the number from 19 to 1.
6. Save and exit
7. Start up Safari and you should work. You must keep in mind that this file may be updated by Apple again, so this is only temporary and should only be done if you *must* use your current version of Java.

best of luck....
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajovanov View Post
I disabled safe download list and edited the list file

System Preferences -> Security & privacy -> General
unlock the padlock

click on Advanced button

uncheck automatically update safe downloads

click ok

open terminal

cd /System/Library/CoreServices/CoreTypes.bundle/Contents/Resources

you have to be root user now

cp XProtect.meta.plist XProtect.meta.plist.BAK

vi XProtect.meta.plist

change

<string>1.7.10.19</string>


to some lower numbers

in my case

<string>1.7.6.19</string>

now java will work, but your machine will be unsecure
Call me a skeptic, don't know for whatever for.
__________________
Quicker than two shakes of a lambs tail
tigres is offline   0 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > MacRumors.com News Discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Apple Releases New Java 6 Updates With Enhanced Security, Uninstalls Apple-Provided Java Applet Plug-in MacRumors Mac Blog Discussion 49 Oct 22, 2013 10:58 AM
Apple Releases Safari and Java Updates With Plug-In and Security Improvements MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 77 Apr 23, 2013 04:09 PM
Apple Once Again Blocks Java 7 Web Plug-in MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 151 Mar 29, 2013 12:56 PM
Oracle Releases Java 7 Update 13 to Address Security Issues, Reenable Web Plug-in on OS X MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 134 Feb 17, 2013 01:40 PM
Oracle Updates Java 7 to Address Security Vulnerability MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 72 Jan 19, 2013 12:00 PM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:47 AM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC