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Old Jan 13, 2013, 10:11 AM   #1
itsamacthing
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Late 2012 iMac Image Retention Test Thread

Make sure you test your iMac as soon as you get it.

Here is the test:

http://www.marco.org/rmbp-irtest.html

Please run this test and post your results.

If you have Image Retention, it is not normal as Apple would have you believe. Only faulty LCDs have it. These displays are made by LG, and have a bad track record as being seen over on the MBPr threads. Please test your iMac as soon as you get it and return it to Apple if you have IR. The IR will get worse over time. Do not accept a faulty LCD and do not accept repairs.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 10:14 AM   #2
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Ah, yet another IR test thread, it also seems to be resolved, LG seems to be making good ones now.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 10:20 AM   #3
itsamacthing
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Originally Posted by justperry View Post
Ah, yet another IR test thread, it also seems to be resolved, LG seems to be making good ones now.
Not exactly, a lot of people reporting IR on both iMacs and MBPr. Let's keep an open mind here and let those who have the new iMac run the test and post their results...
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 10:24 AM   #4
iWaiting
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My screen is Ok but now my eyes have image retention should I seed them back
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 10:30 AM   #5
Brian Y
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IPS panels can and do suffer from IR. Please stop spreading FUD.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 10:33 AM   #6
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I'm just putting my 2 cents out there. I wouldn't recommend anyone trying this test. There's a big warning message that pops up telling the user to enter at their own risk and the developer of this test assumes zero responsibility of any damage to your screen because it's asking to keep the image static for a prolonged period of time. Check out this attached message. If anyone discovers IR under normal use just take it up with Apple. I don't recommend creating it on your own. If any screen damage happens it won't be covered under warranty guys.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 10:45 AM   #7
itsamacthing
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Originally Posted by bma View Post
IPS panels can and do suffer from IR. Please stop spreading FUD.
Do you work for Apple? Only faulty IPS panels have IR.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HenryDJP View Post
I'm just putting my 2 cents out there. I wouldn't recommend anyone trying this test. There's a big warning message that pops up telling the user to enter at their own risk and the developer of this test assumes zero responsibility of any damage to your screen because it's asking to keep the image static for a prolonged period of time. Check out this attached message. If anyone discovers IR under normal use just take it up with Apple. I don't recommend creating it on your own. If any screen damage happens it won't be covered under warranty guys.
The test will not damage your computer, it's just a screen full of black and white boxes. If you are concerned, then just leave the same Image up on your screen for 10 minutes and then switch to a gray screen to see if have IR. This website is just meant to make it easier to test

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If you have any questions about IR, go over here http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1422669 and ask these guys about their horrible experience with IR as it does get worse with time... You can also find out more about the IR test.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 11:00 AM   #8
Brian Y
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Originally Posted by itsamacthing View Post
Do you work for Apple? Only faulty IPS panels have IR.

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The test will not damage your computer, it's just a screen full of black and white boxes. If you are concerned, then just leave the same Image up on your screen for 10 minutes and then switch to a gray screen to see if have IR. This website is just meant to make it easier to test

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If you have any questions about IR, go over here http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1422669 and ask these guys about their horrible experience with IR as it does get worse with time... You can also find out more about the IR test.
I don't agree with you so you assume I work for Apple? You just lost all credibility with that statement. But then the tone of the op doesn't really show you being open to debate!

Google "IPS Image Persistence". It's a well known phenomena.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 11:04 AM   #9
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No issues with my screen. No signs of IR.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 11:22 AM   #10
itsamacthing
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I don't agree with you so you assume I work for Apple? You just lost all credibility with that statement. But then the tone of the op doesn't really show you being open to debate!

Google "IPS Image Persistence". It's a well known phenomena.
I have googled around, read up on the issue that does not occur on all LCDs, I have been reading the 400+ page thread on the MBPr Image Retention issue that is only happening on about 50% of the LG displays shipping...and 0% of the Samsung displays. I have also read that some 2012 iMac owners are complaining of IR and others are saying their screen is ok. So for those of us who care about the community as a whole, it would be great to see if the IR issue on the iMac is an issue for 5% of buyers, or 50%.

The point of a thread like this is to help protect new and future owners

I'm open minded and have a positive attitude, and I hope that the 2012 iMac does NOT have a significant IR problem.

So thank you to those of you who post, as it will help those who do have IR discover it and get their iMac replaced within the 14 days, and secondly the results help give the community an overview picture of what is being shipped.

I for one have tested the thunderbolt display, iMac 21.5 2012 today and neither displayed IR. My 2012 27-inch iMac will arrive in a few weeks and I will test and post.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by brand0n View Post
No issues with my screen. No signs of IR.
That's fantastic news... enjoy your new iMac!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by iWaiting View Post
My screen is Ok but now my eyes have image retention should I seed them back
Eyes are not covered via Apple Care, bummer

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Originally Posted by justperry View Post
Ah, yet another IR test thread, it also seems to be resolved, LG seems to be making good ones now.
I really hope you are right!
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 12:01 PM   #11
HenryDJP
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You Guys, DO NOT DO THIS TEST!

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsamacthing View Post

The test will not damage your computer.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsamacthing View Post
I'm open minded....
I disagree with this statement. Even the developer of that site suggests that it's possible that it could damage your screen and he assumes zero responsibility. You're saying it won't damage the computer, that's a very broad statement. See, if someone's screen gets screwed nothing will happen to you because you can hide behind your computer and just disappear off Macrumors.

Think about this too, say that the test reproduces IR, image retention can be temporary for the most part (unless a test like this causes burn-in) and will need to be reproduced, what makes you think that Apple will accept this test if a customer comes into the store and uses it to reproduce IR? They won't. A warning message like that will be taken seriously by Apple because it poses high risk.

You think you're helping people here, you're really asking them to do something risky on their expensive iMac.

Last edited by HenryDJP; Jan 13, 2013 at 12:10 PM.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 08:15 PM   #12
itsamacthing
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Originally Posted by HenryDJP View Post
I disagree with this statement. Even the developer of that site suggests that it's possible that it could damage your screen and he assumes zero responsibility. You're saying it won't damage the computer, that's a very broad statement. See, if someone's screen gets screwed nothing will happen to you because you can hide behind your computer and just disappear off Macrumors.

Think about this too, say that the test reproduces IR, image retention can be temporary for the most part (unless a test like this causes burn-in) and will need to be reproduced, what makes you think that Apple will accept this test if a customer comes into the store and uses it to reproduce IR? They won't. A warning message like that will be taken seriously by Apple because it poses high risk.

You think you're helping people here, you're really asking them to do something risky on their expensive iMac.
I understand what you are saying 100%... and there are other ways to test for IR.

1. Set your background to dark gray (Preferences>Desktop&Screen Saver>Solid colors> and look for the dark gray at middle top row of solid colors
2. Pull up safari and go to your fav website and leave it up on your screen for 10 minutes (example, you can leave anything static on your screen)
3. minimize Safari and see if you have IR

If my iMac can't handle looking at the same image for 10 minutes without having IR, then I don't want it. The iMacs and Thunderbolt displays I have seen can handle the test easily. The point is that I have static images on my screen for more than 10 minutes when I am in Illustrator or Photophop. My samsung screens can handle it, my macbook air can handle it and so on and so forth.

If you are worried about what your iMac can handle, and think it's only designed for casual use... then I respect that and don't bother testing your LCD. If you have a faulty LCD, you might never know unless it gets so bad that you can't miss it.

On the other hand, many of us buy the iMac to do professional work on and we know the LCD is one of the best on the market and can handle black and white box images for 5 to 10 minutes or a picture from my last trip equally.

I tried the test for 3 minutes on a MacBook Pro Retina for 3 minutes and it had IR. It doesn't take 10 minutes to show IR, it only takes 2 or 3 minutes in most cases. I tried the test for 10 minutes on MBPr that has a Samsung screen and no IR. I regularly go to Apple stores and run the test. The only time I have seen IR is on the LG based MacBook Pro retina. That is the reason i did not buy it.

So again, please test your LCD in a way that you are comfortable with. The test that I recommended has been used by thousands of people on this and the official support forum. Not a single person has said it damaged their computer, and if you know enough about LCDs, you will know that looking at the same image for 10 minutes shouldn't be an issue. Otherwise, follow my instructions above for a more real world test. Or, come up with your own test after you read more about IR on the various support forums.

Here is another test, and you can set the timing:
http://www.mitchmalone.name/retina-test/
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 10:27 PM   #13
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Anybody using a computer is going to have things that stay pretty constant in parts of the screen. Maybe it's the tabs of your browser. Maybe it's a toolbar in Photoshop. Screens should not retain those elements even if they remain in the same position for an extended period, and no 10 minute test is going to "damage" your screen in a way that's any different than using a browser or an application. As far as the screen is concerned ... it's all pixels. The test patterns just make it easier for your eye to discern if there's a problem because it's easily-identifiable shapes.

When I get my iMac, it'll be one of the first things I test. For ~$3k I can't have a screen I'm unable to use without destroying.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 11:16 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by uptownnyc View Post
Anybody using a computer is going to have things that stay pretty constant in parts of the screen. Maybe it's the tabs of your browser. Maybe it's a toolbar in Photoshop. Screens should not retain those elements even if they remain in the same position for an extended period, and no 10 minute test is going to "damage" your screen in a way that's any different than using a browser or an application. As far as the screen is concerned ... it's all pixels. The test patterns just make it easier for your eye to discern if there's a problem because it's easily-identifiable shapes.

When I get my iMac, it'll be one of the first things I test. For ~$3k I can't have a screen I'm unable to use without destroying.
I agree with you 100%... looking at a specific image will not damage your LCD, even if it's on your screen for 5 hours. Like you said, think about tool bars that are there for 6 or more hours. No difference if it's black and white or gray and blue.... The boxes are just to make it easy to see.

I just got an email from my rep at Apple who said:

"I have checked with the AppleCare Team and was advised if the engineers verified your iMac to have "image retention" issue, you can get a refund or replacement."

Just waiting for it to be delivered so I can test and post my results. I will also test it every week as a lot of people on the other threads say that the IR starts to show up after 2 or even 4 months.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 01:21 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uptownnyc View Post
Anybody using a computer is going to have things that stay pretty constant in parts of the screen. Maybe it's the tabs of your browser. Maybe it's a toolbar in Photoshop. Screens should not retain those elements even if they remain in the same position for an extended period, and no 10 minute test is going to "damage" your screen in a way that's any different than using a browser or an application.
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsamacthing View Post

If my iMac can't handle looking at the same image for 10 minutes without having IR, then I don't want it. The iMacs and Thunderbolt displays I have seen can handle the test easily. The point is that I have static images on my screen for more than 10 minutes when I am in Illustrator or Photophop. My samsung screens can handle it, my macbook air can handle it and so on and so forth.
I understand exactly what you both you are saying and if anyone knows about IR it's certainly me because I have a Plasma TV which brings me to my point. I don't have to perform any tests to reproduce IR on my Plasma. Watching a normal TV show with black bars on the left and right sides reproduce IR in under 10 minutes. Now, IR is normal on a Plasma TV. Sometimes the station logos reproduce IR and even the menu to change the color and brightness leaves a bit of IR after just a couple of minutes.

This brings me to my other point, you guys are both right, images are constantly static on a computer screen, even if you are a casual surfer so just think about what both of you wrote above. If under normal use static images such as the browser and tons of alias's are left on the computer screen desktop, if there's a real problem with IR then it won't require a test to reproduce it.
My concern is, if it requires a "test" of specific types of images then you're trying to force IR to happen and it's important to make sure that Apple will accept putting the screen through a series of tests in order to reproduce IR, especially if it can't be reproduced out of normal use. If the screens are defective then under normal use you shouldn't have any issue reproducing IR.
This isn't just to help the people within their 14 day return period, it's to also help people during their warranty period.

Sure, if you have other safe ways of doing this then fine, I just don't understand people here diving right in to test their machine on a website that immediately shows a warning message from the developer that he assumes zero responsibility if anything happens to your screen.

For the record, I don't understand why this IR problem is happening. LCD's generally don't have this issue like Plasma screens do. That isn't good at all. Of course my 2011 iMac has no issues with IR. I guess this issue is with the 2012 models and the MBP Retina? Don't know why this is happening?
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 02:27 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HenryDJP View Post
I understand exactly what you both you are saying and if anyone knows about IR it's certainly me because I have a Plasma TV which brings me to my point. I don't have to perform any tests to reproduce IR on my Plasma. Watching a normal TV show with black bars on the left and right sides reproduce IR in under 10 minutes. Now, IR is normal on a Plasma TV. Sometimes the station logos reproduce IR and even the menu to change the color and brightness leaves a bit of IR after just a couple of minutes.

This brings me to my other point, you guys are both right, images are constantly static on a computer screen, even if you are a casual surfer so just think about what both of you wrote above. If under normal use static images such as the browser and tons of alias's are left on the computer screen desktop, if there's a real problem with IR then it won't require a test to reproduce it.
My concern is, if it requires a "test" of specific types of images then you're trying to force IR to happen and it's important to make sure that Apple will accept putting the screen through a series of tests in order to reproduce IR, especially if it can't be reproduced out of normal use. If the screens are defective then under normal use you shouldn't have any issue reproducing IR.
This isn't just to help the people within their 14 day return period, it's to also help people during their warranty period.

Sure, if you have other safe ways of doing this then fine, I just don't understand people here diving right in to test their machine on a website that immediately shows a warning message from the developer that he assumes zero responsibility if anything happens to your screen.

For the record, I don't understand why this IR problem is happening. LCD's generally don't have this issue like Plasma screens do. That isn't good at all. Of course my 2011 iMac has no issues with IR. I guess this issue is with the 2012 models and the MBP Retina? Don't know why this is happening?
What about a test where you open this thread, then before reading the new posts you just happen to remember to finish your chess game, then after 3min (and I am not counting the time it really takes to end a chess game) you win and you just close the game and try to read the new posts, and notice that you can still see all the details of the chess board above this thread.

Now don't tell me this is trying to force IR to happen. Is just another way of doing the same thing!

The test on the first link is just an image (ok, a chess board, now does it seem more realistic test?), if an image (chess board image) can damage your screen then please don't tell me it is a good screen.

And how on earth the solution that apple recommends on the technical note (using screensavers) will solve the problem for all the people playing board games will work? (where you usually have a static board with high contrast colors on it)
"Oh let me just run the screensaver for 20 min after playing the game as apple recommended before doing something else"
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 03:10 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HenryDJP View Post
I understand exactly what you both you are saying and if anyone knows about IR it's certainly me because I have a Plasma TV which brings me to my point. I don't have to perform any tests to reproduce IR on my Plasma.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HenryDJP View Post
I disagree with this statement. Even the developer of that site suggests that it's possible that it could damage your screen and he assumes zero responsibility. You're saying it won't damage the computer, that's a very broad statement. See, if someone's screen gets screwed nothing will happen to you because you can hide behind your computer and just disappear off Macrumors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HenryDJP View Post
I'm just putting my 2 cents out there. I wouldn't recommend anyone trying this test. There's a big warning message that pops up telling the user to enter at their own risk and the developer of this test assumes zero responsibility of any damage to your screen because it's asking to keep the image static for a prolonged period of time. Check out this attached message. If anyone discovers IR under normal use just take it up with Apple. I don't recommend creating it on your own. If any screen damage happens it won't be covered under warranty guys.
Lordy Lord. You are giving me a headache! What's it to you anyway and are kicking and screaming so hard. You made your point in your first post, added nothing of any great significance in subsequent posts, leave it at that and let people make their own minds up rather than scare mongering.

marco.org is a well known organisation and I am sure they won't screw up your screen. They're just putting a disclaimer on there to save people getting fruity with them.

As someone else has said image retention, dead pixels, colour test and screen bleed are the four tests I will run when I get my machine this week. Threads like this make it easier for people to get a view on risk.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 03:11 AM   #18
itsamacthing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HenryDJP View Post
I understand exactly what you both you are saying and if anyone knows about IR it's certainly me because I have a Plasma TV which brings me to my point. I don't have to perform any tests to reproduce IR on my Plasma. Watching a normal TV show with black bars on the left and right sides reproduce IR in under 10 minutes. Now, IR is normal on a Plasma TV. Sometimes the station logos reproduce IR and even the menu to change the color and brightness leaves a bit of IR after just a couple of minutes.

This brings me to my other point, you guys are both right, images are constantly static on a computer screen, even if you are a casual surfer so just think about what both of you wrote above. If under normal use static images such as the browser and tons of alias's are left on the computer screen desktop, if there's a real problem with IR then it won't require a test to reproduce it.
My concern is, if it requires a "test" of specific types of images then you're trying to force IR to happen and it's important to make sure that Apple will accept putting the screen through a series of tests in order to reproduce IR, especially if it can't be reproduced out of normal use. If the screens are defective then under normal use you shouldn't have any issue reproducing IR.
This isn't just to help the people within their 14 day return period, it's to also help people during their warranty period.

Sure, if you have other safe ways of doing this then fine, I just don't understand people here diving right in to test their machine on a website that immediately shows a warning message from the developer that he assumes zero responsibility if anything happens to your screen.

For the record, I don't understand why this IR problem is happening. LCD's generally don't have this issue like Plasma screens do. That isn't good at all. Of course my 2011 iMac has no issues with IR. I guess this issue is with the 2012 models and the MBP Retina? Don't know why this is happening?
Sorry to hear about your plasma TV. The test is safe, it's just an image like any other image...it just ads contrast so it's easy to see if your monitor has IR or not. Everyone and anyone can dive right into that test or create their own if they prefer... but in the end, they will both do the same thing. We all know that Bo Jackson was fast, and so did the NFL recruits, but they still had him run the 40 in the combine before the draft. We all know you studied well for the exam, but you still have to pass a test. And while Apple might have done a heck of job designing the new iMac, it seems that they did not do enough to test their monitors coming from LG. So we have to run the test...and it will show the buyer immediately if they got a bad monitor or not. Don't you want to know if you have some decease early on or later on when it's spread all over your body? It's important to recognize this within your 14 days. If you don't test and find it now, if you have IR ... it will get worse and in a few months you will start to notice it without the test.. in that case, you will need to get it repaired, and not get a full replacement. So tell me, do you want a repaired iMac or a new one with a good LCD?

When you fly on an airplane, there are plenty of disclaimers but you still do it all the time... when you take an asprin, there are warnings... it's just a disclaimer and at the same time there are other IR tests online that don't have them. His is just the most popular because it has great contrast... it will hurt your eyes before it hurts your computer

It's a shame that this IR is happening, the poor buyers of the MBPr are having the worst time with this. Some of them have had to return 4+ times. Others are finally getting relief in the form of a samsung based LCD repair. I believe the issue is about LG. LG (formally Goldstar) is not the best maker of LCDs. They might not be the worst, but they don't have the same quality as Samsung. Just go down to a Best Buy or equal and take a look at the Samsung's vs the LGs. I don't want to take this thread in the wrong direction about LG vs. Samsung, but it's a shame Samsung isn't making all the LCDs for Apple.

Hope you feel better about the test now and will use it or a method that is suitable to you and let us know if you have IR...Thanks!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Confuzzzed View Post

As someone else has said image retention, dead pixels, colour test and screen bleed are the four tests I will run when I get my machine this week. Threads like this make it easier for people to get a view on risk.
Thank you
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 04:12 AM   #19
HenryDJP
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Lordy Lord. You are giving me a headache! What's it to you anyway and are kicking and screaming so hard. You made your point in your first post, added nothing of any great significance in subsequent posts, leave it at that and let people make their own minds up rather than scare mongering.

marco.org is a well known organisation and I am sure they won't screw up your screen. They're just putting a disclaimer on there to save people getting fruity with them.

As someone else has said image retention, dead pixels, colour test and screen bleed are the four tests I will run when I get my machine this week. Threads like this make it easier for people to get a view on risk.
I'm giving YOU a headache? Is that where you got your username from? I don't appreciate your tone whatsoever and your extremely rude. I'm trying to help people on this forum so they don't end becoming "beta testers" for everyone else. I understand what the OP was requesting and I'm certain he's not trying to walk anyone off of a plank as his intentions seem genuine. The issue is not the OP, it's the testing website. You want to take the risks and ignore messages and beta test your computer anytime somebody here requests it, go right ahead. I'm all for safe testing but if you're trying to shut me up because I'm trying to warn others of potential risks from due to warning messages that appear before the tests start and you can't deal with it then just press the ignore button in your personal settings. Your attitude makes no sense.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mihai.ile View Post
What about a test where you open this thread, then before reading the new posts you just happen to remember to finish your chess game, then after 3min (and I am not counting the time it really takes to end a chess game) you win and you just close the game and try to read the new posts, and notice that you can still see all the details of the chess board above this thread.

Now don't tell me this is trying to force IR to happen. Is just another way of doing the same thing!

The test on the first link is just an image (ok, a chess board, now does it seem more realistic test?), if an image (chess board image) can damage your screen then please don't tell me it is a good screen.

And how on earth the solution that apple recommends on the technical note (using screensavers) will solve the problem for all the people playing board games will work? (where you usually have a static board with high contrast colors on it)
"Oh let me just run the screensaver for 20 min after playing the game as apple recommended before doing something else"
I did mention normal use and what you described IS normal use. My concern is forcing IR by way of testing sites that may pose some risk. I leave my iMac on a static screen many times well over an hour. I'll work and then get up from my desk and just leave it. That's all normal.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 04:40 AM   #20
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Testing Options

1. If you understand that leaving an image on your screen for 10 minutes can not damage your computer, then please use the original test.

2. If you are concerned by the disclaimer, then please feel free to create your own test. There are endless options here. But the easiest is to change your background to a solid color like dark gray and find an image and leave it up for 10 minutes and then change to the background to see if you have IR.

For the record, Marco.org happens to be the website of the guy who created Instapaper. http://www.marco.org He is a brilliant guy and his test just makes it easy to see if your LCD has IR.

Thank you for your concerns and responses, now let's get down to some testing!! So we can grow together as a community and help each other.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 05:07 AM   #21
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Last edited by JD92; Feb 2, 2013 at 05:20 PM.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 05:21 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by JacksterD View Post
These threads get so ridiculous, who knew image retention could become so divisive?

A small amount of image retention is not out of the ordinary for IPS screens, but not after only a few minutes of displaying an image as is the case on so many of Apple's latest screens. It's worth taking a few minutes to just check whether your screen is at an acceptable level or not.

And no, that test creator was just covering himself, but he's right - if you can permanently damage your screen just for having a simple pattern on it for 20 minutes then there is something very wrong with it to begin with and the blame can only be placed at Apple's feet.
How is your MBPr? Did you get a Samsung based LCD or are you one of the % who got an LG without IR?
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 06:26 AM   #23
JD92
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 07:18 AM   #24
itsamacthing
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Originally Posted by JacksterD View Post
In the end I settled on a 15" Retina MBP with an LG display as the whole returning thing was taking up a lot of time. The IR was imperceptible at the beginning, being apparent only when testing for it, but as the months have gone by it has gotten noticeably worse.
I'm sorry to hear this, as I am in a similar situation with a 2012 i7 MBA with a hazzy LG display. My 13 inch MBA has a sharp as a tack Samsung display. I went through 4 returns, and then ran out of time going back and forth with all the returns looking for a Samsung display. So now I'm settling... pathetic.

I'm looking forward to selling this next year and getting something else
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 09:06 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by JacksterD View Post
In the end I settled on a 15" Retina MBP with an LG display as the whole returning thing was taking up a lot of time. The IR was imperceptible at the beginning, being apparent only when testing for it, but as the months have gone by it has gotten noticeably worse.
Anybody know AppleCare's stance on out-of-warranty image-retention-impacted hardware?
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