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Old Jan 14, 2013, 09:31 PM   #26
ZBoater
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shortcrust View Post
You're being ridiculous and also rather sanctimonious. They allow 10 devices. What single individual has 10 devices?! No one. So what is their intention is allowing 10 devices? To allow families to use apps in exactly the way the OP is doing.

Care to offer another explanation?
Sure. One can own 10 iDevices. Your explanation is making stuff up. Apple says nothing about "family" licenses. But I can have a couple of iPods, iPads, iPhones, especially different versions for different purposes. That use is explicitly allowed. The use by my "household" members is not.

My explanation is a plain read of the terms of use, not wishful thinking.

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Originally Posted by micrors4racer View Post
.And this is what I have been saying all along: fair to use with immediate family no matter how many (of course use your reasonable judgement as to how many would be "fair") and you cannot do the same if you are running a commercial app or commercial services with that app.
And where does it say "immediate family"????
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 10:49 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by ZBoater View Post
Sure. One can own 10 iDevices. Your explanation is making stuff up. Apple says nothing about "family" licenses. But I can have a couple of iPods, iPads, iPhones, especially different versions for different purposes. That use is explicitly allowed. The use by my "household" members is not.

My explanation is a plain read of the terms of use, not wishful thinking.

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And where does it say "immediate family"????
You're just fueling an endless battle man. Where does it say you can't use it with your house hold? It doesn't. Did you even read the link I posted? The author agrees with everything we are saying here. You are the only one who seems to think that this is illegal or against the EULA; which by the way governs the use of the AppStore regardless if you think it's right or not. They do not prohibit multiple devices from sharing apps. The way they worded the EULA shows their intent. By including DEVICES YOU OWN OR CONTROL they open up the definition. Otherwise they could have restricted it to "Devices you own and only devices you own".
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:39 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by micrors4racer View Post
You're just fueling an endless battle man. Where does it say you can't use it with your house hold? It doesn't. Did you even read the link I posted? The author agrees with everything we are saying here. You are the only one who seems to think that this is illegal or against the EULA; which by the way governs the use of the AppStore regardless if you think it's right or not. They do not prohibit multiple devices from sharing apps. The way they worded the EULA shows their intent. By including DEVICES YOU OWN OR CONTROL they open up the definition. Otherwise they could have restricted it to "Devices you own and only devices you own".
Exactly. Or they could have said something like "This software is restricted to use by one individual only." But they didn't. Since they didn't expressly prohibit sharing apps among multiple users, iit's allowed.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 07:35 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by micrors4racer View Post
...Where does it say you can't use it with your house hold? It doesn't. Did you even read the link I posted? ... including DEVICES YOU OWN OR CONTROL they open up the definition. Otherwise they could have restricted it to "Devices you own and only devices you own".
Yes, I read it. So just because it doesn't prohibit use by multiple family members you think it's ok? Got it. I hope you never get caught in a copyright infringement case. It will not go well for you....[COLOR="#808080"]

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Originally Posted by Night Spring View Post
Exactly. Or they could have said something like "This software is restricted to use by one individual only." But they didn't. Since they didn't expressly prohibit sharing apps among multiple users, iit's allowed.
Here is one developers take on it. I can guarantee you if they wanted to provide "home site licenses", they would.

http://www.assistiveware.com/support/faq/page/50

What you guys don't realize is that Apple expects every USER to have their own Apple account. Apple IDs are not intended to be "shared". By allowing multiple users (family or not) to use your Apple ID you are circumventing the system. Go back and read the section on Apple IDs. If everyone in your household had their own ID, this type of copyright infringement couldn't happen, which is probably why it isn't spelled out. If they were to spell out everything you can't do, the terms would be 100 pages long.

Even in a corporate setting where a single ID is used you are required to buy multiple copies. The multiple device "feature" is to allow SINGLE USERS with MULTIPLE DEVICES to not have to buy multiple copies, not to allow MULTIPLE USERS on MULTIPLE DEVICES, household or not.

Whatever lets you guys sleep at night go ahead and keep thinking it. Software piracy is not a trivial or joking matter.
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Last edited by ZBoater; Jan 15, 2013 at 07:52 AM.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 07:47 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by ZBoater View Post
Here is one developers take on it. I can guarantee you if they wanted to provide "home site licenses", they would.

http://www.assistiveware.com/support/faq/page/50
You are a developer right? Do you own or work for assistiveware? Regardless of their "take on it" doesn't mean there aren't developers who have the opposite "take on it".
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 07:54 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by ericrwalker View Post
You are a developer right? Do you own or work for assistiveware? Regardless of their "take on it" doesn't mean there aren't developers who have the opposite "take on it".
The Apple store and iTunes Store terms are not subject to individual developers interpretation. I was simply sharing how one developer interpreted them. They apply to all developers.

And no, I am not a developer. I don't need to be one to respect them and frown on copyright infringement.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 08:04 AM   #32
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I thought I recall you saying you were a developer or worked for developers in the past. Anyway, I see what you're saying, but I fall in a similar situation as micrors4racer. I have an AT&T account with 2 iphones (Mine and my wife's), and I bought my wife an iPad mini. We use the same account on all three devices. We also often pick up each others phones around the house to take pictures and I sometimes use hers. My daughter likes to watch videos on the iPhone so if she's watching one we share each others phones. She mainly uses the iPad, but I use it too. We are in the same house, and all three devices were purchased by mean and are occasionally used by me. Even if I didn't touch her iPhone, I tend to manage her apps for her and use my account and we sync with the same computer. Don't see the point of setting up a separate iTunes.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ZBoater View Post
The Apple store and iTunes Store terms are not subject to individual developers interpretation. I was simply sharing how one developer interpreted them. They apply to all developers.

And no, I am not a developer. I don't need to be one to respect them and frown on copyright infringement.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 08:20 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by ZBoater View Post
According to this page from the same website, they think it's ok for a family to share an app.
http://www.assistiveware.com/support/faq/page/58

"A family has two kids who need a communication solution. Dad buys Proloquo2Go on the App Store in iTunes with his own iTunes account. He then syncs Proloquo2Go onto his own iPhone plus the iPads and iPod touches used by his kids. He only needs to buy Proloquo2Go once as the use is personal, non-commercial and he owns and controls all the devices."
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 08:32 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by ericrwalker View Post
I thought I recall you saying you were a developer or worked for developers in the past. Anyway, I see what you're saying, but I fall in a similar situation as micrors4racer. I have an AT&T account with 2 iphones (Mine and my wife's), and I bought my wife an iPad mini. We use the same account on all three devices. We also often pick up each others phones around the house to take pictures and I sometimes use hers. My daughter likes to watch videos on the iPhone so if she's watching one we share each others phones. She mainly uses the iPad, but I use it too. We are in the same house, and all three devices were purchased by mean and are occasionally used by me. Even if I didn't touch her iPhone, I tend to manage her apps for her and use my account and we sync with the same computer. Don't see the point of setting up a separate iTunes.
And this is why the terms are vague. Having someone borrow your device for ocassional use in the household vs. buying everyone their own iDevice. The line is who owns or "controls" the device. In my case my wife has HER phone and I have MINE. To use the same ID in my case to only buy one copy of an app for my use AND my wife's use on two separate devices would be, in my opinion, wrong.

When minors (small children) are concerned, I can see how Apple and developers left it vague. There is so much Angry Birds an adult will play, and chances are you are sharing very few apps with small kids. There is an age restriction for having an Apple ID anyway (13 I think?)

Having Mom and Dad use my copy of iWork is not what Apple had in mind I would think, but like I've said, everyone has to be responsible for his or her own actions and be able to sleep at night.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 08:57 AM   #35
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Thanks, I guess we settled that, beaten by his own source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Night Spring View Post
According to this page from the same website, they think it's ok for a family to share an app.
http://www.assistiveware.com/support/faq/page/58

"A family has two kids who need a communication solution. Dad buys Proloquo2Go on the App Store in iTunes with his own iTunes account. He then syncs Proloquo2Go onto his own iPhone plus the iPads and iPod touches used by his kids. He only needs to buy Proloquo2Go once as the use is personal, non-commercial and he owns and controls all the devices."
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 09:20 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by ZBoater View Post
And no, I am not a developer. I don't need to be one to respect them and frown on copyright infringement.
I am a developer, and highly sensitive to piracy, and I don't believe what we've all called "immediate family" is an issue, nor would most developers.

Apple has some mechanisms in place that make sharing out of a small circle of folks under the same roof very clunky (i.e., 10 devices max, 90 waiting period to change IDs, etc.).

Plus I couldn't imagine exposing a transaction capability to anyone other than my wife (and we of course manage our almost-5 year olds devices).

Just my $0.02
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 09:59 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by ZBoater View Post
I have my Apple ID and my wife has hers. If she wants an app she needs to buy it, I ain't giving her mine. Same with my Dad or my brother. I have an iPhone and two iPads that are MINE. On those three devices I only buy the app once. THAT is the difference.
So..... do you two buy your own copies of the same Blu-Ray as well? Pay for two cable subscriptions? Do you make her buy her own copies of the same music files from iTunes? Did you use to make her buy her own copy of a CD?

Seems like you'd be paying twice for a lot of things.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 10:07 AM   #38
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Seriously for family use why would you want to pay for an app more than once ?

Im sure Apple would love you for this but you wouldn't catch me doing it !


I can see were it might be an issue in the workplace !
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 03:09 PM   #39
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Back to the original question, lots of misinformation has been presented here. The 10 device limit only applies to iTunes Match and Automatic Downloads. You can sync your iTunes apps and media with unlimited devices (iPhones, iPods, iPads, Apple TVs).

You can also put them on up to 5 computers (actually iTunes libraries, multiple libraries on the same computer count towards the limit).
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 03:41 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by mrkjsn View Post
...If you want to get down to it, my kids are 7 and 10 and from my perspective, they own nothing but rather have access to everything I provide..
Kids under 13 can't have an Apple ID. Not according to Apple.

Quote:
This iTunes Store is available for individuals aged 13 years or older. If you are 13 or older but under the age of 18, you should review this Agreement with your parent or guardian to make sure that you and your parent or guardian understand it.
Mom and Dad and wife shouldn't fall in this category. At least I hope not.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 03:50 PM   #41
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One apple Id. Over ten ios devices.

I have one apple I'd and I have ten ios devices. I am going to get an ipad mini. What do I need to do to add the 11 ios device(ipad mini). If I deauthorize a device how long before I can add it back. How and where do I go to do this?
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 03:52 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Tbdbuckeyeitl View Post
I have one apple I'd and I have ten ios devices. I am going to get an ipad mini. What do I need to do to add the 11 ios device(ipad mini). If I deauthorize a device how long before I can add it back. How and where do I go to do this?
The 10 device limit only applies to iTunes Match and Automatic downloads. You can sync your iTunes apps and media with unlimited iOS devices.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 04:12 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by ZBoater View Post
Mom and Dad and wife shouldn't fall in this category. At least I hope not.
Mom and Dad, I agree should pay for their own apps. But wife, I'm inclined to say it should be ok to share apps with. After all, most assets of married couples are owned jointly -- say you buy a car, it belongs to both of you, even if it's mostly used by the wife. I don't see why software (and other copyrighted material) should be treated differently.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 04:34 PM   #44
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Really? Trolling? Because I disapprove of multiple users using multiple copies of software on multiple devices but only pay for one copy? Is that what passes for trolling around here?

The iTunes Store agreement allows different people to share iTunes content under certain conditions. It even allows for content purchased from separate accounts to be used on the same computer or iOS device.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 05:30 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by ZBoater View Post

And where does it say "immediate family"????
My wife and i own and control our devices including ours and the ones the kids use. Do you really believe this doesn't fall under the "devices you control" clause? If my kids act up, I take it from them, if my wife wants my phone, she uses it. These are all shared by us and owned by us and under our control.
Answer this honestly, if you're reading a newspaper and your wife asks to see it so she can read part of it, do you tell her to go buy her own?
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 05:47 PM   #46
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Are you sure. I thought there was a limit on iOS devices
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 05:52 PM   #47
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Are you sure. I thought there was a limit on iOS devices
I can confirm this. Between our own iPhones, iPads and iPods, our boss's iPhone and iPad, and our sister's iPad and iPod, we have synced well over 10 devices to our computer.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 06:20 PM   #48
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Was all of them using the same apple Id???
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 06:51 PM   #49
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Was all of them using the same apple Id???
Using the same Apple ID for what? There's so many different things an iOS device can use Apple ID for, and each of them can be set to a different ID. On my iPad, I have one Apple ID for the App Store, another for iCloud syncing, and if I wanted, I could use yet another ID for FaceTime.

The point is, for instance, for the App Store, there isn't a way to authorize / deauthorize individual devices. You simply sign in with an Apple ID. You can sign in and out as often as you want, and so far, I haven't run into a limit. Same with any of the other functions associated with Apple IDs. Only exception is iTunes Match and automatic downloads. If you do run into the limits with those functions, you can disassociate devices by following instructions here: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4627

Last edited by Night Spring; Jan 15, 2013 at 07:00 PM.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 07:02 PM   #50
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I own ten ios devices all with the same apple Id. If I buy my 11 ios device, do I have to delete one of my previous devices? I only have one itunes apple I'd. If so how do I remove and can I add it back or do I have to wait 90 days.
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